CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

[gfmorris]

Re: CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

I solved this one ... went right to the source. I talked to Gardsie about it on Saturday, he immediately said it was all legit the way the net got bumped off. End of story.

Sure, sure. Actually, when they had to fix the ice at 15:29 of the second on Saturday, one of our fans saw the pegs that they use at the Dwyer to hold the nets in place and said, "Huh ... that looks like it'd work a lot better than what the VBC uses." And they're definitely right: looks like the VBC just has a divot under the net, which makes them pretty easy to dislodge.

GFM

 

[MikeAnderson]

Re: CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

But Durbin says he was pushed...

Mike and Geof, do you remember your first UAH game? I now remember mine was actually a 4-3 win over Tennessee in 1981. I distinctly remember one of the Zeek brothers in goal fending off a furious attack in the waning seconds. UT actually got the puck past him, but just after time had expired. As memory has it, they never looked back against the Vols again. Anyway, just curious to know your earliest UAH memory. So many great ones, I actually found my ticket to the Club Hockey Championships of 1984 last night while cleaning out my attic. Quite fond of the Chargers, needless to say.

No, I can honestly say that I do not remember the date or opponent of my first UAH hockey game. The first game I remember watching was when we played Army at home in 2000, the night before the cheerleader got tackled by some cadets, as I recall (wasn't there for that), thus ending the tradition of the running of the flag.

It was not until the 2000-01 season that I became an ardent fan.

 

[Douglas]

Re: CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

Yes, I remember our (Joyce and mine) first UAH Hockey games. It was the day after the Miracle on Ice. We saw that UAH was playing a team from Georgia and we went to it. I don't exactly remember the score but I do remember UAH drubbed them and it was exciting so we went again the next night. Same two teams the next night with a similar result. Those were the last two home games of their first season in late February 1980. Yeah, I know, I'm old!!! We have been season ticket holders since then.

 

[fairman]

Re: CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

My first UAH game was before I actually knew I was attending UAH... back when I was in the Ohio State Athletic Band, UAH came up to Columbus (fall 2005) for a visit... and then took 3 points from the Buckeyes from a weekend series. The next year, I came down to Huntsville, and followed through that year to the NCAAs in 2007... making 3 hockey NCAAs I had attended. Hopefully the pep band goes to a 4th (for me) this year...

 

[tnlong]

Re: CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

... As for the Durbin/Kingston affair ... http://www.uscho.com/news/college-hockey/id,10698/FormerWSUCaptainHappyInRealWorld has the story, really:



As I was looking off of the play at the time [I was doing color and was looking at what the off-side winger and D-men were doing], I can't vouch for whether Durbin was pushed or just happened to run into Byrnie.

GFM

The D-man (David Halliwell - Kevin Ridgeway was covering Kingston) did tap him a little bit before he cross-checked Byrne in the back. The problem was that Durbin entered the cease from the left side going around Halliwell and then going through the crease across the goal mouth before cross-checking Byrne on the right side of the crease. Byrne was obviously shocked afterwards trying to figure-out how someone came out of the net to take him out.
I've stored a 7.7M dvr-ms file of it at
http://home.hiwaay.net/~plong/*tnl_hockey_images/1UAH-WSU-20020316.dvr-ms
Maybe someone can retrieve it and post it in a viewable fashion.

 

[Douglas]

Re: CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

The D-man (David Halliwell - Kevin Ridgeway was covering Kingston) did tap him a little bit before he cross-checked Byrne in the back. The problem was that Durbin entered the cease from the left side going around Halliwell and then going through the crease across the goal mouth before cross-checking Byrne on the right side of the crease. Byrne was obviously shocked afterwards trying to figure-out how someone came out of the net to take him out.
I've stored a 7.7M dvr-ms file of it at
http://home.hiwaay.net/~plong/*tnl_hockey_images/1UAH-WSU-20020316.dvr-ms
Maybe someone can retrieve it and post it in a viewable fashion.

I converted it to mpeg2 and watched it. I saw again what I saw when I was there: 1. Durbin entered the crease and took Byrne out of the play. 2. Durbin was in the crease when the puck arrived and was tipped into the net by Kingston. 3. The refs missed two major calls: 1. Crosscheck on the goalie-a penalty 2. Man in the crease-no goal. My personal opinion - the refs were tired and wanted to go home.

Now, is this going to change anything? No, it's just part of the CHA, UAH, & WSU legacy and history. So be it.

 

[Upper Deck]

Re: CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

I think the conspiracy theorists should get you guys a copy of the Zapruder film.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

I converted it to mpeg2 and watched it. I saw again what I saw when I was there: 1. Durbin entered the crease and took Byrne out of the play. 2. Durbin was in the crease when the puck arrived and was tipped into the net by Kingston. 3. The refs missed two major calls: 1. Crosscheck on the goalie-a penalty 2. Man in the crease-no goal. My personal opinion - the refs were tired and wanted to go home.

Now, is this going to change anything? No, it's just part of the CHA, UAH, & WSU legacy and history. So be it.

If you could get it to MPEG-2, so can I ... and I can upload it to Vimeo and we can all see.

As for the Zapruder film ... I'm not a JFK conspiracy guy at all.

GFM

 

[gfmorris]

Re: CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

This video is almost painful to watch --- not because of the goal, but because the source is so degraded from multiple conversions. [DVR stream to MPEG-2 to FLV.]

<object width="400" height="300"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=10263533&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=10263533&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="300"></embed></object><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/10263533">Jason Durbin Checks Mark Byrne</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/gfmorris">Geoffrey Morris</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

Iuorio's waved-off goal coming shortly.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

Here's Iuorio's waved-off goal:

<object width="400" height="300"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=10263437&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=10263437&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="300"></embed></object><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/10263437">2010 CHA Championship: Giancarlo Iuorio's Overturned Goal</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/gfmorris">Geoffrey Morris</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

5Hole can now complain about it, and I won't say a word.

GFM

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

Bobby Mo!! WOW!!! all but reduced my bracket to rubbish right there.

 

[tnlong]

Re: CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

Here's Iuorio's waved-off goal:

<object width="400" height="300"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=10263437&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=10263437&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="300"></embed></object><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/10263437">2010 CHA Championship: Giancarlo Iuorio's Overturned Goal</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/gfmorris">Geoffrey Morris</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

5Hole can now complain about it, and I won't say a word.

GFM

Philo had the perfect position to make the call and was quick and emphatic about it. So, here's the question regarding the rule. If the stick starts above the crossbar and comes down striking the puck below the crossbar, is that the reason for the call? The elevated camera angle distorts the reference to the crossbar height, but the next to last replay shows that the stick began its motion downward above the crossbar.

 

[wsp67326]

Re: CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

1) Durbin is full of it; he clearly ran over Byrne, no question. Ridgeway did next to nothing, and certainly did not check him into Byrne. Oh well. Thanks for the video, everyone, even if it brings back difficult memories...

2) Iuorio masterfully hit the puck, and I cannot for the life of me see how Philo decided no goal unless it was one of two things: a) as Terry noted, possibly the starting location of the stick controls the overall play, or b) he was making up for the UAH no goal (perhaps both?). In the whole scheme of things, who knows what would have happened had Philo decided differently... but, I have to give Iuorio some props for a great redirection nonetheless.

At least Niagara will dominate the AHA next year; wish our Chargers had the same degree of possibility for returning to the tournament.

 

[tnlong]

Re: CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

1) Durbin is full of it; he clearly ran over Byrne, no question. Ridgeway did next to nothing, and certainly did not check him into Byrne. Oh well. Thanks for the video, everyone, even if it brings back difficult memories...

That's Halliwell defending the crease. Ridgeway was defending Kingston.

2) Iuorio masterfully hit the puck, and I cannot for the life of me see how Philo decided no goal unless it was one of two things: a) as Terry noted, possibly the starting location of the stick controls the overall play, or b) he was making up for the UAH no goal (perhaps both?). In the whole scheme of things, who knows what would have happened had Philo decided differently... but, I have to give Iuorio some props for a great redirection nonetheless.

High Sticks
SECTION 21.
a. Carrying sticks above the height of 4 feet (the height of the
goal cage) is prohibited.
HR-72 RULE 6 / PLAYING RULES
PENALTY—Minor.
b. A player shall not violently use the stick for contact to the head or neck
region of the opponent.
PENALTY—Major or disqualification at discretion of the referee.
c. When the puck is above the height of 4 feet [1.22m] it shall not be batted
with the stick, and when it occurs there shall be a whistle unless:
1. The puck is batted to an opponent, in which case the play shall
continue. When a player bats the puck to an opponent, an on-ice
official shall give the washout signal immediately.
2. A player of the defending team bats the puck directly into his or her
own goal, in which case the goal shall be allowed.
PENALTY—Faceoff at one of the end-zone faceoff spots adjacent to the
goal of the team causing the stoppage of play.
d. When the puck is struck above 4 feet directly to the goalkeeper, there
shall be an immediate whistle.
PENALTY—Faceoff at one of the end-zone faceoff spots adjacent to the
goal of the team causing the stoppage of play.


Given that "a." is provided concisely and first, it appears that it occurring immediately before the puck is struck and a goal is scored would be the cause of the call.

 

[5hole]

Re: CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

1) Durbin is full of it; he clearly ran over Byrne, no question. Ridgeway did next to nothing, and certainly did not check him into Byrne. Oh well. Thanks for the video, everyone, even if it brings back difficult memories...

2) Iuorio masterfully hit the puck, and I cannot for the life of me see how Philo decided no goal unless it was one of two things: a) as Terry noted, possibly the starting location of the stick controls the overall play, or b) he was making up for the UAH no goal (perhaps both?). In the whole scheme of things, who knows what would have happened had Philo decided differently... but, I have to give Iuorio some props for a great redirection nonetheless.

At least Niagara will dominate the AHA next year; wish our Chargers had the same degree of possibility for returning to the tournament.

1) I absolutely agree.

2) I absolutely agree.
a) I was standing next to Vince Rocco's Dad when this play occurred. He immediately offered the same question as to the only reason to wave it off - what is the rule? Is it where the stick starts that controls the play? Since he watches a lot of juniors and I watch a lot of minor pro, neither of us was sure of the college rule. But after watching the replay numerous times, including my best efforts at pausing to try to create a frame by frame, I have to question whether the stick was ever high enough to have waved it off. I think not. Whether Philo had a good view or not does not mean he got it right.
b) Yes, I immediately felt that the reversal of the UAH goal might have influenced him.

As I stated in an earlier post, based on talks with someone who saw both, the waved-off UAH goal was a clear call ... if the puck hit Noonan's stick, it was a goal; if it did not, no goal. It clearly did not, therefore no goal. Iuorio's was less clear but I think they got it wrong. And, yup, props to Giancarlo for knocking it home.

So Geof ... nice job on the video. Glad you understand my bi-itching on this one. And I sure understand yours ... you got a right to!

 

[Douglas]

Re: CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

Shucks, let's jump in here with my 2 cents...

For the two waved off goals:
1. The UAH no-goal was a no brainer but I'd like to point out that Coby wasn't trying to kick the puck into the net, he was trying to kick the puck to his stick but it went into the net before he could touch it. The pass came to his feet and we've all either seen it and/or done the same thing about a few thousand times. Unfortunately for him, he didn't get his stick on the puck before it went into the net. You can clearly see him slapping at the puck, just too late. The no-goal call was absolutely correct.

2. The NU no-goal, in my mind and based on the rules Terry posted below, could only be called if Philo believed Iuorio's stick was carried above the 4 ft level or the puck was above the 4 ft level when he struck it. I mean, what else can it be? The really iffy part to me, and it should bother the heck out of the Purps fans, was that the man who made the call was the same man who reviewed the call if I'm not mistaken. I just don't see him reversing himself since the call was so close to the magic 4 ft level and let's face it, it was a judgement call on his part as to the height of the puck/stick. I'll give him credit for not hesitating on the call but I sure see where there's room to complain... Just some more CHA history...

 

[gfmorris]

Re: CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

Thanks, Terry, for posting the relevant rulebook reference ... my copy is at work, and I didn't want to go through the NCAA publications "checkout" process for my free copy of the rules. [Asinine, that.]

At no time do I feel that Iuorio's stick or stickblade got above the top of the cage. Did he get it past the horizontal? Yes, that obviously happened. Did he chop down to hit the puck? Yes. Was it amazing handiwork? Hell yes.

5Hole, glad to provide the video to you. It's on my Vimeo account if you want to use that to send it to Burky, Iuorio, or anyone else. Heck, if purpleeagles.com wanted to embed it on their site, I'd be honored.

GFM

 

[BC/HE]

Re: CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

Shucks, let's jump in here with my 2 cents...

For the two waved off goals:
1. The UAH no-goal was a no brainer but I'd like to point out that Coby wasn't trying to kick the puck into the net, he was trying to kick the puck to his stick but it went into the net before he could touch it. The pass came to his feet and we've all either seen it and/or done the same thing about a few thousand times. Unfortunately for him, he didn't get his stick on the puck before it went into the net. You can clearly see him slapping at the puck, just too late. The no-goal call was absolutely correct.

2. The NU no-goal, in my mind and based on the rules Terry posted below, could only be called if Philo believed Iuorio's stick was carried above the 4 ft level or the puck was above the 4 ft level when he struck it. I mean, what else can it be? The really iffy part to me, and it should bother the heck out of the Purps fans, was that the man who made the call was the same man who reviewed the call if I'm not mistaken. I just don't see him reversing himself since the call was so close to the magic 4 ft level and let's face it, it was a judgement call on his part as to the height of the puck/stick. I'll give him credit for not hesitating on the call but I sure see where there's room to complain... Just some more CHA history...

That fact amazed me too. You have a referree reviewing his own call and he already was adament about it. Why would he overule himself if even beyond a reasonable doubt? I think he blew the call. However the game is over and the result is in much like the Lowell-BU goal fiasco last year. BU is the defending NC and Lowell fans can just revel in their "stolen" conference banner. It makes you sick when you're on the losing end but the result is final and it will haunt you for years.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

That fact amazed me too. You have a referree reviewing his own call and he already was adament about it. Why would he overule himself if even beyond a reasonable doubt? I think he blew the call. However the game is over and the result is in much like the Lowell-BU goal fiasco last year. BU is the defending NC and Lowell fans can just revel in their "stolen" conference banner. It makes you sick when you're on the losing end but the result is final and it will haunt you for years.

Just for reference's sake:

1. The Durbin-Kingston affair happened on Dwyer ice.

2. The Gardner net-kick happened on VBC ice.

3. The Iuorio no-goal + Desmet GWG have, for Charger fans, erased all the frustrations of #1 and #2. But 5Hole is bound to not feel the same way.

GFM

 

[5hole]

Re: CHA Thoughts and Prognostications: Year 11, The Finale... Part Deux

Just for reference's sake:

1. The Durbin-Kingston affair happened on Dwyer ice.

2. The Gardner net-kick happened on VBC ice.

3. The Iuorio no-goal + Desmet GWG have, for Charger fans, erased all the frustrations of #1 and #2. But 5Hole is bound to not feel the same way.

GFM

Well, you guys had to wait a long time for that redemption. I was going to say that I would hate to wait that long but, in reality, we will never get a chance for vindication. Believe me, I would rather win a CHA championship than an Atlantic Hockey ... the on-ice quality of the teams we faced in CHA was simply always better.