CHA fans, remember Lindenwood?

[moose97]

So, Lindenwood has finally gotten off their duff and will begin the transition from NAIA to NCAA. CHA fans will remember Lindenwood (in suburban St. Louis) from their 2004 exploration into D-I men's hockey. Well, guess what? They're finally doing it - D-I NCAA hockey will come to Lindenwood. Make that D-I women's hockey.

Only reason I post this here rather than in the women's forum, is to ask the question - what are the odds that if Lindenwood completes its transition to NCAA and the opt-up rules are clarified this summer (I'd love for them to adopt a rule allowing olympic sports to opt-up, or to create the national collegiate championship for D-I and D-II men's hockey like it is for women's) and the men's team ends up D-I at some point? And how long?

 

[NMU8405]

Re: CHA fans, remember Lindenwood?

So how much is title IX keeping Men's hockey numbers down?

 

[moose97]

Re: CHA fans, remember Lindenwood?

So how much is title IX keeping Men's hockey numbers down?

Good question. This will add to Syracuse as schools offering women's but not men's hockey.

OTOH, check out Lindenwood's athletic website, specifically clicking on "Other Nationally Affiliated Sports." From 2004, I remember that while hockey was club (and still is), the University considers them (and most of those sports) part of the athletic department. One of the issues with Lindenwood was that they wanted to keep some sports NAIA while moving others to NCAA (roller hockey, for example, was nationally competitive, and they wanted to keep it such at the NAIA level). I don't know how they solved this problem (moved them to club?)...

 

[sbkbghockey]

Re: CHA fans, remember Lindenwood?

One of the issues with Lindenwood was that they wanted to keep some sports NAIA while moving others to NCAA (roller hockey, for example, was nationally competitive, and they wanted to keep it such at the NAIA level). I don't know how they solved this problem (moved them to club?)...

I'm not exactly sure, I believe the NAIA has some really strict rules- Lindenwood wanted to add Men's and Women's NCAA hockey back in the early 2000s, the big problem was an NAIA rule about schools playing NAIA in most sports and NCAA in others (except I assume for grandfathered in schools b/c I know there are a cpl playing DII or DIII NCAA in sports but play NAIA football.)

But then the NAIA is less strict than the NCAA in other areas- If the NAIA doesn't sponsor a sport, schools can field that sport but still have scholarships and treat them as varsity teams. A number of the top ACHA DI women's and men's "club" teams are really NAIA varsity teams. Other sports are like this too. Lacrosse is one of the fastest growing sports in the US but the NAIA does not hold a championship so many NAIA schools play MCLA "club" lacrosse.

Its unfortunate the timing of Lindenwood adding NCAA men's and women's hockey while remaining in the NAIA and/or moving all sports to NCAA didn't happen better to help stabilize the CHA men's division. But always good to see more hockey programs (without a HUGE discussion of Big10 and realignment) so about time.

So how much is title IX keeping Men's hockey numbers down?

I think it's more Money than Title IX. It costs much more to add men's hockey than women's. Syracuse, Lindenwood, Penn State all have arenas that seat about 1,000 fans. Not putting down the sport, but that's a fine capacity for women's hockey. Unless the school wants to play in Atlantic Hockey they really need more than a 1,000 seat ice rink to be competitive in Men's hockey. I think we'll see women's hockey-only schools like LU and Syracuse add men's hockey in time but not until they make commitments to build or like Penn State get a lucky super rich alumni who loves hockey!

 

[slowe]

Re: CHA fans, remember Lindenwood?

Hey just thinking about Lindenwood recently and thought I would ask a few questions. No new rumors or anything, just pure curiosity / speculation on my part. I get the impression it will happen eventually, just a matter of when. They are set to become a full NCAA DII member for the 2013-14 school year. The women's program is already playing at the D1 level somehow.

1.) Was the men's team not eligible to play D1 hockey when Lindenwood became a provisional NCAA member?
2.) Will the men's team become eligible for the 2013-14 season if they are not already?
3.) If they did begin to play NCAA hockey, as a new D2 team can they offer scholarships and how many?

They do have a suitable rink option in the Family Arena. It will have a CHL team starting in 2013-14 called the St. Charles Chill, so scheduling may be a bit tough. But let's also be honest, CHL teams don't really last that long these days.

I'm also assuming they fit the mold and would be welcome into the nWCHA, even if after UAH is (hopefully) accepted. The CCHA has shown 11 can be done. Distance isn't worse for any nWCHA teams than what they currently will have to do. It would be the new closest team for Huntsville, and it would be another team to share in the Alaska rotation. The Lindenwood women's team plays in College Hockey America, which has many similar teams in the Atlantic league. Not sure if the men's would want to play there if possible. The Atlantic will only have 11, so Lindenwood could put them back up to 12.

Yes, I know. Money and Title IX always come into play. But Lindenwood seems to take it's hockey pretty seriously. Not sure how their balance is with Title IX. As a new NCAA program they may have some balancing to do as they are switching programs over.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: CHA fans, remember Lindenwood?

GFM

 

[LtPowers]

Re: CHA fans, remember Lindenwood?

1.) Was the men's team not eligible to play D1 hockey when Lindenwood became a provisional NCAA member?
2.) Will the men's team become eligible for the 2013-14 season if they are not already?
3.) If they did begin to play NCAA hockey, as a new D2 team can they offer scholarships and how many?

1) The men's team is a club team and they chose not to make it a varsity team.
2) There is no possible way they will have a men's varsity team ready for 2013.
3) They can offer scholarships just like any other Division II school. The problem is that there's no NCAA-sanctioned competition in Division II for the men. They'd have to play up to D-I (which the NCAA may or may not allow) or play a D-III schedule (and be ineligible for the tournament).

Not sure how their balance is with Title IX. As a new NCAA program they may have some balancing to do as they are switching programs over.

Presumably they were already in Title IX compliance; it's not like NAIA schools are exempt, after all.


Powers &8^]

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: CHA fans, remember Lindenwood?

I'm not exactly sure, I believe the NAIA has some really strict rules- Lindenwood wanted to add Men's and Women's NCAA hockey back in the early 2000s, the big problem was an NAIA rule about schools playing NAIA in most sports and NCAA in others (except I assume for grandfathered in schools b/c I know there are a cpl playing DII or DIII NCAA in sports but play NAIA football.)

But then the NAIA is less strict than the NCAA in other areas- If the NAIA doesn't sponsor a sport, schools can field that sport but still have scholarships and treat them as varsity teams. A number of the top ACHA DI women's and men's "club" teams are really NAIA varsity teams. Other sports are like this too. Lacrosse is one of the fastest growing sports in the US but the NAIA does not hold a championship so many NAIA schools play MCLA "club" lacrosse.

Its unfortunate the timing of Lindenwood adding NCAA men's and women's hockey while remaining in the NAIA and/or moving all sports to NCAA didn't happen better to help stabilize the CHA men's division. But always good to see more hockey programs (without a HUGE discussion of Big10 and realignment) so about time.



I think it's more Money than Title IX. It costs much more to add men's hockey than women's. Syracuse, Lindenwood, Penn State all have arenas that seat about 1,000 fans. Not putting down the sport, but that's a fine capacity for women's hockey. Unless the school wants to play in Atlantic Hockey they really need more than a 1,000 seat ice rink to be competitive in Men's hockey. I think we'll see women's hockey-only schools like LU and Syracuse add men's hockey in time but not until they make commitments to build or like Penn State get a lucky super rich alumni who loves hockey!

Actually, I think its more of a NCAA rule that if you want to move one of your sports into the NCAA, you pretty much have to move all of your sports into the NCAA. So, if an NAIA school wanted to add NCAA Hockey, be it D1 or D3 hockey, they would be pretty much forced to bring everything else, basketball, volleyball, football, tiddlywinks, track and field, and the rest with them.

 

[joecct]

Re: CHA fans, remember Lindenwood?

They're a D-II school that can play in a D-I championship because there is no D-II ice hockey title.

But they can't play up like many Western schools currently do as that option was closed a few years ago.