ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!
He's barely qualified for dog catcher.
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Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!
- Thread starter joecct
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Spartanforlife4
Generic Catchy Message
Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!
I'm still waiting for Rubio to realize he's not facing Obama in the general. He brings him up at least three times as much as he does Hillary.
I'm still waiting for Rubio to realize he's not facing Obama in the general. He brings him up at least three times as much as he does Hillary.
Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!
I don't think it matters. Both Obama and Clinton are well established inside the typical conservative's hate cloud. You excite one part of the cloud and it resonates across the whole thing.
I don't think it matters. Both Obama and Clinton are well established inside the typical conservative's hate cloud. You excite one part of the cloud and it resonates across the whole thing.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!
As I said. Rare.
Bull. He's not "insinuating" anything, he's directly stating what we all know: a bribe is a bribe. You would have no problem recognizing that with Dubya taking money from the oil lobby and then faithfully doing their bidding up to and including murdering 3k Americans and a few hundred thousand Iraqis. Play it straight, Rover: she's on the take.
From a view of quid pro quo, yes. In fact the very thing the Supremes got wrong in McCutcheon was saying you have to demonstrate explicitly that a candidate changes their mind based on the contribution -- that they have been bought.
Now if you want to relax that standard a little, it's not really bribery when Bernie has spent 40 years campaigning for liberal causes and this is a liberal cause. The problem with Goldman contributing, at least to a Democrat, is that they are at odds with the party's basic democratic principles. A contribution made to divert a candidate from a historic policy to a new one is an explicit bribe -- one I think ought to be called a bribe even under McCutcheon's stricter definition. The order of policy and contribution is important from that way of looking at things.
The other difference of course is the college students are giving hundreds and the companies are giving millions.
Here's the thing about Clinton that we all have to swallow since she's going to be the nominee: she is bought. The thing we're counting on is she'll screw them over. As LBJ (?) so poetically said, "if you can't drink their whiskey, take their money, screw their women and still vote against them, you have no business being here." And to her credit Hillary Clinton is the first Democrat in a generation who might have that hardness and deep cynicism.
We can only hope that Clinton is planning to utterly, spectacularly betray her paymasters. She's the choice because there is no way that will ever happen with a Republican. They stay bought.
FDR....JFK....
As I said. Rare.
Bull. He's not "insinuating" anything, he's directly stating what we all know: a bribe is a bribe. You would have no problem recognizing that with Dubya taking money from the oil lobby and then faithfully doing their bidding up to and including murdering 3k Americans and a few hundred thousand Iraqis. Play it straight, Rover: she's on the take.
From a view of quid pro quo, yes. In fact the very thing the Supremes got wrong in McCutcheon was saying you have to demonstrate explicitly that a candidate changes their mind based on the contribution -- that they have been bought.
Now if you want to relax that standard a little, it's not really bribery when Bernie has spent 40 years campaigning for liberal causes and this is a liberal cause. The problem with Goldman contributing, at least to a Democrat, is that they are at odds with the party's basic democratic principles. A contribution made to divert a candidate from a historic policy to a new one is an explicit bribe -- one I think ought to be called a bribe even under McCutcheon's stricter definition. The order of policy and contribution is important from that way of looking at things.
The other difference of course is the college students are giving hundreds and the companies are giving millions.
Here's the thing about Clinton that we all have to swallow since she's going to be the nominee: she is bought. The thing we're counting on is she'll screw them over. As LBJ (?) so poetically said, "if you can't drink their whiskey, take their money, screw their women and still vote against them, you have no business being here." And to her credit Hillary Clinton is the first Democrat in a generation who might have that hardness and deep cynicism.
We can only hope that Clinton is planning to utterly, spectacularly betray her paymasters. She's the choice because there is no way that will ever happen with a Republican. They stay bought.
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FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!
Pretty much.
Whoever wins can easily pivot to attacking Hillary and Obama in the general. Expect plenty of negative ads and attacks about her involvement in Hillarycare, Obamacare, Whitewater, "VRWC" paranoia, brushing off Bill's accusers, Benghazi, Server-gate, etc. Lots of baggage to pick from and trump up (no pun intended
) as scandalous.
Pretty much.
Whoever wins can easily pivot to attacking Hillary and Obama in the general. Expect plenty of negative ads and attacks about her involvement in Hillarycare, Obamacare, Whitewater, "VRWC" paranoia, brushing off Bill's accusers, Benghazi, Server-gate, etc. Lots of baggage to pick from and trump up (no pun intended
) as scandalous.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!
Makes sense -- the people he's trying to woo right now hate Obama and love to hear him slagged. In the general Rubio will just run around screeching "ISIS!!!" 24/7.
Makes sense -- the people he's trying to woo right now hate Obama and love to hear him slagged. In the general Rubio will just run around screeching "ISIS!!!" 24/7.
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Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!
They're going to have a problem though if that's their only strategy, because what plays inside the GOP fart bubble is dismissed as inane outside of it. I have co-workers who say Benghazi will hurt Hillary in the general. When I tell them it won't because anyone who thinks Benghazi is a issue is already voting against her on party lines, they are completely flabbergasted. They literally think, "well Fox is the only outlet who is running these stories so many people aren't paying attention now, but they will learn about it when the Republican candidate brings it up in the general and then it will be a landslide." They have been trained to believe that what they believe is self-evidently true, and the only explanation of why everybody doesn't understand it is they haven't heard the argument. They cannot conceive that everybody else heard the argument, dismissed it as partisan nonsense, and immediately moved on.
Pretty much.
Whoever wins can easily pivot to attacking Hillary and Obama in the general. Expect plenty of negative ads and attacks about her involvement in Hillarycare, Obamacare, Whitewater, "VRWC" paranoia, brushing off Bill's accusers, Benghazi, Server-gate, etc. Lots of baggage to pick from and trump up (no pun intended
They're going to have a problem though if that's their only strategy, because what plays inside the GOP fart bubble is dismissed as inane outside of it. I have co-workers who say Benghazi will hurt Hillary in the general. When I tell them it won't because anyone who thinks Benghazi is a issue is already voting against her on party lines, they are completely flabbergasted. They literally think, "well Fox is the only outlet who is running these stories so many people aren't paying attention now, but they will learn about it when the Republican candidate brings it up in the general and then it will be a landslide." They have been trained to believe that what they believe is self-evidently true, and the only explanation of why everybody doesn't understand it is they haven't heard the argument. They cannot conceive that everybody else heard the argument, dismissed it as partisan nonsense, and immediately moved on.
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Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!
Chill, its a statistical tie (PPP).
Chill, its a statistical tie (PPP).
Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!
We've already seen it. I think it was Rubio in one of the recent debates who referred to the "Obama-Clinton economy". I thought that was funny. What sense does it make to connect the Secretary of State to the economy?
Pretty much.
Whoever wins can easily pivot to attacking Hillary and Obama in the general. Expect plenty of negative ads and attacks about her involvement in Hillarycare, Obamacare, Whitewater, "VRWC" paranoia, brushing off Bill's accusers, Benghazi, Server-gate, etc. Lots of baggage to pick from and trump up (no pun intended
We've already seen it. I think it was Rubio in one of the recent debates who referred to the "Obama-Clinton economy". I thought that was funny. What sense does it make to connect the Secretary of State to the economy?
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!
RCP poll of polls still has Trump +17 and Sanders +20.
TPM argues Trump is slightly slipping, but their real news is Rubio has overtaken Cruz.
RCP poll of polls still has Trump +17 and Sanders +20.
TPM argues Trump is slightly slipping, but their real news is Rubio has overtaken Cruz.
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The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!
He has a comparable resume to the sitting President (i.e. US Senator).
He has a comparable resume to the sitting President (i.e. US Senator).
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!
He may be a Senator but he hasn't done a ****ing thing since he got there. No legislation, no nothing. So, comparable my ***.
He may be a Senator but he hasn't done a ****ing thing since he got there. No legislation, no nothing. So, comparable my ***.
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!
Like I said, comparable resume.
Like I said, comparable resume.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!
Rubio doesn't even vote.
Rubio doesn't even vote.
Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!
I'll let Hillary respond to you...
"Under his definition, President Obama is not progressive because he took donations from Wall Street; Vice President Biden is not progressive because he supported Keystone; Senator Shaheen is not progressive because she supports the trade pact. Even the late, great Senator Paul Wellstone would not fit this definition because he voted for DOMA... I don't think it was particularly progressive [of Sanders] to vote against the Brady Bill five times. I don't think it was progressive to vote to give gun makers and sellers immunity. I don't think it was progressive to vote against Ted Kennedy's immigration reform."
See Kep, you can't have it both ways. Either there's never been a true progressive out there until this current incarnation of Bernie (not the version that voted against the Brady bill) and everybody is selling out to various interests, or this criticism is absurd. Take your pick, but pick one and stick with it.
I'll let Hillary respond to you...
"Under his definition, President Obama is not progressive because he took donations from Wall Street; Vice President Biden is not progressive because he supported Keystone; Senator Shaheen is not progressive because she supports the trade pact. Even the late, great Senator Paul Wellstone would not fit this definition because he voted for DOMA... I don't think it was particularly progressive [of Sanders] to vote against the Brady Bill five times. I don't think it was progressive to vote to give gun makers and sellers immunity. I don't think it was progressive to vote against Ted Kennedy's immigration reform."
See Kep, you can't have it both ways. Either there's never been a true progressive out there until this current incarnation of Bernie (not the version that voted against the Brady bill) and everybody is selling out to various interests, or this criticism is absurd. Take your pick, but pick one and stick with it.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!
Although I find 98% of the criticisms of Obama from the right to be balderdash, this one is 100% correct. Based on his resume prior to the job there was no way to predict that Obama would actually turn out to be the best president since the end of WW2. We got lucky.
But Obama did have a vision and he was super smart, whereas Rubio has a playback tape that his donors fill up at night, and he is super smarmy. I think I'll go with my instincts on him.
Although I find 98% of the criticisms of Obama from the right to be balderdash, this one is 100% correct. Based on his resume prior to the job there was no way to predict that Obama would actually turn out to be the best president since the end of WW2. We got lucky.
But Obama did have a vision and he was super smart, whereas Rubio has a playback tape that his donors fill up at night, and he is super smarmy. I think I'll go with my instincts on him.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!
Well, it certainly proves the narrative that Rubio could win. No way in hell the GOP even considers him before Obama happened.
Although I find 98% of the criticisms of Obama from the right to be balderdash, this one is 100% correct. Based on his resume prior to the job there was no way to predict that Obama would actually turn out to be the best president since the end of WW2. We got lucky.
But Obama did have a vision and he was super smart, whereas Rubio has a playback tape that his donors fill up at night, and he is super smarmy. I think I'll go with my instincts on him.
Well, it certainly proves the narrative that Rubio could win. No way in hell the GOP even considers him before Obama happened.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!
Au contraire, dear boy. I've been consistent throughout. For me, wealth inequality is the cornerstone issue and on it Bernie is great and Hillary is very, very worrisome. My second place issue is war and the results are the same. After that, my interests drop into the noise. So for me, Bernie is a liberal and Hillary is not.
If your rank ordering of issues are different with, say, gun control at the top, then YMMV.
However... that's the best line of response Hillary could take. Stick with that, it will defuse her problem with most people.
Au contraire, dear boy. I've been consistent throughout. For me, wealth inequality is the cornerstone issue and on it Bernie is great and Hillary is very, very worrisome. My second place issue is war and the results are the same. After that, my interests drop into the noise. So for me, Bernie is a liberal and Hillary is not.
If your rank ordering of issues are different with, say, gun control at the top, then YMMV.
However... that's the best line of response Hillary could take. Stick with that, it will defuse her problem with most people.
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Kepler
Cornell Big Red
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!
That was VP. Big difference.
That was VP. Big difference.
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