Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an election

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Or he recognizes that you don't need to agree with someone to be courteous. Just a thought.

Precisely.

 

[geezer]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

I might be wrong but I think Carson's basic comment is that he wouldn't support, and he doesn't believe we should elect, a Muslim to serve as President. I'm not sure he ever said Muslims should be barred from running for that office on the basis of their religion, something which clearly seems unconstitutional.

You're right, and that is a big difference from what is being screamed in the news about his comments. He also clarified that the institution of Sharia Law by radicals would be at odds with the U.S. Constitution, which would seem hard to refute no matter how much you hate Carson. There's a big difference between "instituting Sharia Law" and "allowing a Muslim to run for the office".

 

[Foxton]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

You're right, and that is a big difference from what is being screamed in the news about his comments. He also clarified that the institution of Sharia Law by radicals would be at odds with the U.S. Constitution, which would seem hard to refute no matter how much you hate Carson. There's a big difference between "instituting Sharia Law" and "allowing a Muslim to run for the office".

He was pretty explicit.

“It depends on what that faith is,” said Mr. Carson, a Seventh-Day Adventist. “If it’s inconsistent with the values and principles of America, then of course it should matter. Asked if he believes Islam is “consistent with the Constitution,” Mr. Carson said no, adding: “I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation.”

And then his clarification.

“I do not believe Sharia is consistent with the Constitution of this country,” Carson said. “Muslims feel that their religion is very much a part of your public life and what you do as a public official, and that’s inconsistent with our principles and our Constitution.”

Carson said that the only exception he’d make would be if the Muslim running for office “publicly rejected all the tenants [sic] of Sharia and lived a life consistent with that.”



“Then I wouldn’t have any problem,” he said.

However, on several occasions Carson mentioned “Taqiya,” a practice in Shia Islam in which a Muslim can mislead nonbelievers about the nature of their faith to avoid persecution.

This sentiment isn't exactly new, equating all muslims as a 'lifestyle' that can't help but work towards sharia law. So the only way not to be for the scary muslim law is to not be muslim. (When ignoring the christian sharia nutcases in their own party) These people really do hate the constitution, what with it explicitly saying there will be no religious test for office.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

I appreciate a good attempt to cover up for discrimination, but geezer, etc gimme a break on Carson. If someone got up and said Jews shouldn't be President, not that they couldn't run but we shouldn't vote for them (some difference ) can you imagine the reaction?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Really don't see Fiorina going far. She's a lamestream media created candidate with no base in the GOP. Kasich I think goes the way of Huntsman much like Walker did the Pawlenty thing. That leaves...hmmm...Trump, Cruz, Carson, and Jebbers! all make it past Super Tuesday/SEC Primary.

She's excellent veep bait. Gets a woman on the ticket to counter the "war on women" narrative (pure tokenism but I'm sure they will seriously consider her or Nikki Haley). Gets a non-professional politician from BIDNESS that the GOP is always extolling the virtues of. And as the debate showed, she can speak forcefully, even when she's lying. Is there a better description of a successful politician that that?

The big problem is she doesn't appear to have the hair-on-fair Christian stuff, but the PP question proved she can fake it.

 

[geezer]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

He was pretty explicit.


And then his clarification.


This sentiment isn't exactly new, equating all muslims as a 'lifestyle' that can't help but work towards sharia law. So the only way not to be for the scary muslim law is to not be muslim. (When ignoring the christian sharia nutcases in their own party) These people really do hate the constitution, what with it explicitly saying there will be no religious test for office.

I know what you mean about the hypocrisy - most of the Republican candidates are openly trying to muddle their religion and politics - but what I got from Carson was more "I wouldn't vote for no stinkin' Muslim" (he does have a freedom to vote for who he personally supports), than "no Muslim should be allowed to run for office." I could be wrong, I guess.
Here's the (most incendiary) quote that's open to interpretation: “I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation.” Is he talking about his own vote or limiting eligibility for office?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

He was pretty explicit.


And then his clarification.


This sentiment isn't exactly new, equating all muslims as a 'lifestyle' that can't help but work towards sharia law. So the only way not to be for the scary muslim law is to not be muslim. (When ignoring the christian sharia nutcases in their own party) These people really do hate the constitution, what with it explicitly saying there will be no religious test for office.

In a normal political environment his statement would have DQed him from the nomination; in this one and with those supporters, it may improve his numbers. The GOP will get worse before it gets better.

I would like to believe it does DQ him from ever actually winning the presidency, but while that would have been true 30 years ago things have gotten so bad that he could probably say even worse and more unconstitutional things and still be in the game based solely on affiliation and the luck of the turnout draw, and that is terrifying.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

She's excellent veep bait. Gets a woman on the ticket to counter the "war on women" narrative (pure tokenism but I'm sure they will seriously consider her or Nikki Haley). Gets a non-professional politician from BIDNESS that the GOP is always extolling the virtues of. And as the debate showed, she can speak forcefully, even when she's lying. Is there a better description of a successful politician that that?

The big problem is she doesn't appear to have the hair-on-fair Christian stuff, but the PP question proved she can fake it.

Disagree on Carly. A terrible VP choice. Right away you'll get the Palin comparisons, and the HP stories are going to be brutal. Wait until they wheel out the grandmother who she laid off while collecting $21M bucks to leave, or the families of the founders who blame her for running the company into the ground. She makes Mitt Romney look like a compassionate businessman! I know pundidiotry has annointed her something special, but they did that with Scott Walker as well a few short months ago.

GOP is crazy if Rubio isn't the VP pick. From Florida, young and Hispanic. It symbolizes something new. Fiorina is another tired, old, angry plutocrat, only a woman this time.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

I thought that was a defining moment for the new show. Colbert said it as a gentle reprimand but it spoke volumes. And then he proceeded to eviscerate Cruz with questions, but on the merits. And, to be fair, Cruz stuck to the merits and made his case (albeit with political ornamentation, but what are you gonna do, he's a politician running for office).

That was an outstanding interview in every respect. Just as the Biden interview was in very different ways. People should not underestimate or pigeonhole Colbert -- he's something very special.

He's likely the best political interviewer we have going now. While it's clear that he's far from unbiased, he still treats his guests holding opposing viewpoints with respect in tone and manners, something that's become a rare trait for public figures. Here's the clip that starts at the gay marriage moment from last night.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Disagree on Carly. A terrible VP choice. Right away you'll get the Palin comparisons, and the HP stories are going to be brutal. Wait until they wheel out the grandmother who she laid off while collecting $21M bucks to leave, or the families of the founders who blame her for running the company into the ground. She makes Mitt Romney look like a compassionate businessman! I know pundidiotry has annointed her something special, but they did that with Scott Walker as well a few short months ago.

GOP is crazy if Rubio isn't the VP pick. From Florida, young and Hispanic. It symbolizes something new. Fiorina is another tired, old, angry plutocrat, only a woman this time.

I would say the GOP is crazy if Rubio isn't the presidential nominee.

Palin comparisons to Fiorina would be ludicrous and sexist. The only thing they share is gender, and to compare them would be to make women the punch line. Palin was a uniquely beautiful moment in time, when somebody unqualified to run a convenience store was put on a national ticket. She was Joe Dirt. She made Dan Quayle look like Pitt the Younger. Don't ever sully that memory -- it's a special entry in the American Cavalcade.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

I might be wrong but I think Carson's basic comment is that he wouldn't support, and he doesn't believe we should elect, a Muslim to serve as President. I'm not sure he ever said Muslims should be barred from running for that office on the basis of their religion, something which clearly seems unconstitutional.

What Carson said is literally no different than what was being said by many powerful people in this country 55 years ago. People have a right to question whether the President's strings are being held by the pope, a greedy catholic businessman from Hyannis Port, a mullah from the middle east, or just the wall street guys we already know about, and then vote accordingly.

Isn't that really our prerogative, as voters?

Sorry but you are wrong. Read what Foxton posted that is verbatim what he said.

And 55 years ago we were wrong too...so was McCarthyism. You cant tout freedom of religion of speech and then in the same breathe then say they should not be allowed to do something.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

I know what you mean about the hypocrisy - most of the Republican candidates are openly trying to muddle their religion and politics - but what I got from Carson was more "I wouldn't vote for no stinkin' Muslim" (he does have a freedom to vote for who he personally supports), than "no Muslim should be allowed to run for office." I could be wrong, I guess.
Here's the (most incendiary) quote that's open to interpretation: “I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation.” Is he talking about his own vote or limiting eligibility for office?

He isnt speaking personally or he would say "I would not vote for a muslim" he is saying "If a religion doesnt mesh with the Constitution that person should not hold office". This nuance you seem to be seeing does not exist.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

I would say the GOP is crazy if Rubio isn't the presidential nominee.

Palin comparisons to Fiorina would be ludicrous and sexist. The only thing they share is gender, and to compare them would be to make women the punch line. Palin was a uniquely beautiful moment in time, when somebody unqualified to run a convenience store was put on a national ticket. She was Joe Dirt. She made Dan Quayle look like Pitt the Younger. Don't ever sully that memory -- it's a special entry in the American Cavalcade.

Rubio? Sure, if they want to get slaughtered. Again, he represents what they rip on about Obama. He has zero executive experience. He can't run a laundromat and he's going to run a country No.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

I appreciate a good attempt to cover up for discrimination, but geezer, etc gimme a break on Carson. If someone got up and said Jews shouldn't be President, not that they couldn't run but we shouldn't vote for them (some difference ) can you imagine the reaction?

I'm pretty sure that's been exhaustively discussed, for many, many years. http://www.salon.com/2015/09/22/is_..._anti_semitism_facing_bernie_sanders_partner/

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

I would say the GOP is crazy if Rubio isn't the presidential nominee.

Palin comparisons to Fiorina would be ludicrous and sexist. The only thing they share is gender, and to compare them would be to make women the punch line. Palin was a uniquely beautiful moment in time, when somebody unqualified to run a convenience store was put on a national ticket. She was Joe Dirt. She made Dan Quayle look like Pitt the Younger. Don't ever sully that memory -- it's a special entry in the American Cavalcade.

That isnt true. Both make up facts and stories to bolster their opinions (Palin voting against Bridge to Nowhere, Fiorina watching the PP video of the dead baby having brain harvested) both have little to no practical experience, both say stupid things when pressed and both are part of the war on women as opposed to helping women. Fiorina may be smarter than Palin but if her name was Carl she would be nowhere near this nomination.

Hell even if you use the business model, she sucks at that too. At least Mitt did a good job in the business world. Fiorina was the nimrod trying to get HP out of the computer market

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

I'm pretty sure that's been exhaustively discussed, for many, many years. http://www.salon.com/2015/09/22/is_..._anti_semitism_facing_bernie_sanders_partner/

Right but Rover is asking what if Carson said that as opposed to talking about Muslims. You would not be seeing Right Leaning pundits defending the nuance of it they would be telling him to drop out.

 

[geezer]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

He isnt speaking personally or he would say "I would not vote for a muslim" he is saying "If a religion doesnt mesh with the Constitution that person should not hold office". This nuance you seem to be seeing does not exist.

Here's my point: The exact quote is, "I would not advocate..." (Note the first-person usage.) The general interpretation is that he meant to say any Muslim should be legally barred from running for office. It seems like a pretty big leap.
I myself "would not advocate" that we put Donald Trump in charge of our nation. That doesn't mean he isn't allowed to run for office.
Logically, the only way to disagree what Carson said is to say that nobody is allowed to use a candidate's religion in deciding who to support, or to insist that Carson be required to support a Muslim candidate. Is that reasonable?

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Sorry but you are wrong. Read what Foxton posted that is verbatim what he said.

And 55 years ago we were wrong too...so was McCarthyism. You cant tout freedom of religion of speech and then in the same breathe then say they should not be allowed to do something.

I read what Foxton posted. Again, I don't see any comments where Carson says Muslims should be barred from running for office. He is saying that he thinks we should not vote for a Muslim, because of the candidate's religion. I don't necessarily think a person should choose who they do or don't vote for based upon a candidate's religion, but if voters (including Carson) want to do that, again I find nothing "unconstitutional" about it.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Rubio? Sure, if they want to get slaughtered. Again, he represents what they rip on about Obama. He has zero executive experience. He can't run a laundromat and he's going to run a country No.

Exactly why he's more Veep material. While Kasich won't be the nominee, that would be a good ticket, probably the best they can do at this point. Rubio's problem is who gets the nomination. If Jebbers! rises from the grave, can't have two from the same state. If Cruz takes it, I don't think the GOP is ready for an All Hispanic All Star Team ticket. I mean, there's gotta be at least one old white guy in there or why have a Republican party anymore?

What I will say this this, I have no clue who gets the GOP nomination anymore. Jebbers! is getting tuned out and he's a terrible campaigner. Trump is a side show. Carson is nuts. Christie-Huckleberry-Paul are non-entities. Cruz is going to live and die by how the base reacts to the govt shutdown/debt default he's about to cause. I'm of the opinion the more people drop out the stronger Trump is going to become. Walker's organization was supposed to give him a strong showing in Iowa. Now Cruz and Carson are vying for the fundie vote with a lot less staffers, while Trump gets to clean up everybody else. I don't think the establishment guys even are making a play in that state (Bush, Kasich, maybe even Rubio). If Trump wins Iowa do to divided religious nutter vote, then wins New Hampshire due to divided Establishment stiff vote between Kasich and Bush, look out. Has anybody won both those states and not been the nominee?

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Right but Rover is asking what if Carson said that as opposed to talking about Muslims. You would not be seeing Right Leaning pundits defending the nuance of it they would be telling him to drop out.

Exactly. The double standard here is breathtaking. Not trying to call anybody out but would any USCHO poster defend the exact same comments out of Carson with a splitting hairs defense if he had invoked the Jewish faith instead? I think not...