Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an election

[Bob Gray]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

When fascism comes to America, it be will carrying a cross and awkwardly head nodding to a lame 80's pop anthem.

Classic paranoia. Plus the usual if we're a fading minority, how can we be so threatening. Not only paranoid, but inconsistently paranoid.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Primarily just in the eyes of atheists. For the other +95% of us, its just every day politics.

Fascism is just everyday politics in America? Or have we reached "Amerika" in your eyes?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

I'm not a super nationalistic guy. But our court system is unmatched and our government is mechanically the world's best. Now whether the outcomes are of that level is up for debate due to the damage inflicted from two party lockdown and special interests.

We could make some improvements. Elect the president by popular vote. Make some changes in the Senate to allow it to function better and more transparently.

The biggest and most positive change we could make is to move to a true multi-party system. The two party system artificially restricts the voters' choices and creates many perverse incentives within the major parties. We should at minimum have four parties representing the 2x2 social/economic x regulated/free political matrix. But the two party system is not written into the Constitution; about the best we could do is pass an amendment that somehow prevents major parties from locking out competition.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

For as large and diverse as our country is, culturally, economically, racially, and spiritually, our judicial system does an amazingly good job, IMO. With regard to infallibility, the SCOTUS' observance of stare decisis coupled with its authority to overrule prior decisions wrongly made (Plessy) is about as good a balance of stability and correctability as I am aware of.

If it ever begins to interpret our constitution according to what a majority justices think God ordains, who or whatever their particular perception of God is, we are screwed. And though some disagree, I'd say that if it ever systematically abandons its counter-majoritarian function, we are also screwed.

Wrong thread, I guess.

The first paragraph is spot on. The rest is classic burd nonsense.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Classic paranoia. Plus the usual if we're a fading minority, how can we be so threatening. Not only paranoid, but inconsistently paranoid.

Jesus, doesn't anybody know a joke when they see it?

Here is the quote, for comparison. My line was a joke about the Survivor song "Eye of the Tiger." JFC, kittens, settle down.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

The first paragraph is spot on. The rest is classic burd nonsense.

Okay, then we'll start to interpret the Constitution based upon my version of FSM and the rest of you can suck it. That's what will happen when you start letting God dictate the structure of our laws, because the Catholics don't inherrently agree with the Lutherans, who don't necessarily agree with the Baptists, who don't agree with the... and it goes on and on until people see the light and we end up where we are now.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Jesus, doesn't anybody know a joke when they see it?

Here is the quote, for comparison. My line was a joke about the Survivor song "Eye of the Tiger." JFC, kittens, settle down.

I've said before I don't click on all the links people throw in here. Guess you forgot. Given how serial your paranoia about anything remotely Christian is, you're not the best person to try to be humorous about the subject on a rare occasion.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Plus the usual if we're a fading minority, how can we be so threatening. Not only paranoid, but inconsistently paranoid.

You're conflating overall belief with the lunatic literalist fringe. Belief, per se, is no threat -- the vast majority of believers function in secular space without trying to force their beliefs on others. It's only the loonies who need to stop other people from getting married so they can sleep at night.

As for fading, that's a good question: is the lunatic literalist fringe waxing or waning? It's hard to tell. They are certainly getting louder, more active, and more violent. But an animal is most dangerous when cornered, so we may just be passing through that perilous period in which they realize the gig is up. One thing seems undeniable: the more they bristle and snarl, the more they separate themselves from the larger, rational body of benign believers, and the more they isolate themselves.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Okay, then we'll start to interpret the Constitution based upon my version of FSM and the rest of you can suck it. That's what will happen when you start letting God dictate the structure of our laws, because the Catholics don't inherrently agree with the Lutherans, who don't necessarily agree with the Baptists, who don't agree with the... and it goes on and on until people see the light and we end up where we are now.

You know that's tripe. As usual, you and your ilk want everyone to let their views influence how the nation is governed except Christians. The fact that you and others are totally blind to such inconsistency once would have surprised me, but not anymore. People like you and this rubbish line of thinking are a huge threat to our basic Constitutional rights.

Everyone's views inform what they see the government as and what it should do. Christians are in no way unique there and to pretend they are is a fallacy. The lefties try to push government in new and different ways far more than Christians ever have, but they get a free pass from people like you, whereas you bewail Christians participating in the democratic process like everyone else. Get over it.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

You're conflating overall belief with the lunatic literalist fringe. Belief, per se, is no threat -- the vast majority of believers function in secular space without trying to force their beliefs on others. It's only the loonies who need to stop other people from getting married so they can sleep at night.

As for fading, that's a good question: is the lunatic literalist fringe waxing or waning? It's hard to tell. They are certainly getting louder, more active, and more violent. But an animal is most dangerous when cornered, so we may just be passing through that perilous period in which they realize the gig is up. One thing seems undeniable: the more they bristle and snarl, the more they separate themselves from the larger, rational body of benign believers, and the more they isolate themselves.

Again, if we're a lunatic fringe, then how are we such a massive threat? Your line if thinking is simply illogical.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

You know that's tripe. As usual, you and your ilk want everyone to let their views influence how the nation is governed except Christians. The fact that you and others are totally blind to such inconsistency once would have surprised me, but not anymore. People like you and this rubbish line of thinking are a huge threat to our basic Constitutional rights.

It's hardly limited to Christians, Bob. Christians just happen to be the main religious force in this country and therefore the most widely used example. The same holds true for the Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Shintoists, and the venerated Muslims. Once you allow some group's religion to reign over us all, then you've opened Pandora's box and you live in a country that will have the political stability of a Saudi Arabia or Egypt - nations that have been held together by ruling force rather than the political cooperation we have here.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

It's hardly limited to Christians, Bob. Christians just happen to be the main religious force in this country and therefore the most widely used example. The same holds true for the Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Shintoists, and the venerated Muslims. Once you allow some group's religion to reign over us all, then you've opened Pandora's box and you live in a country that will have the political stability of a Saudi Arabia or Egypt - nations that have been held together by ruling force rather than the political cooperation we have here.

You're making ridiculously extreme assumptions about what Christians think and want in government, with no foundation for doing so. You simply don't understand.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

They do make mistakes though. If they do then they can't be infallible.

And who said they dont? No one...oh cool enjoy your straw man.

You do realize that along with making mistakes they can also fix them right?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

I've said before I don't click on all the links people throw in here. Guess you forgot. Given how serial your paranoia about anything remotely Christian is, you're not the best person to try to be humorous about the subject on a rare occasion.

Except I have no paranoia in the least about religion as a whole, or even Christianity as a whole. That's just you cloaking the tiny, nutbar segments which I am (and most people are) concerned about with the much larger body of believers who manage to get through the day without telling others how to live.

Here's the Cliff Notes version so if you keep making that mistake at least we'll know it's an intentional tactic rather than an honest mistake:

(1) Believers as a whole who understand that public space is not their ideological property are fine. Their beliefs in the supernatural are factually wrong, but that makes no material difference and hey if it helps them live better lives or face the purposelessness of life, then good for them. Hobbies are good. They should be ribbed, gently, in the spirit of good clean fun. They make up somewhere between 80-90% of all believers. If you are among them, please come in.

(2) Literalist nutbars who think scripture is inerrant and that the Word of God (whichever) trumps the law are potentially dangerous and deserving of nothing but scorn. Insofar as they only torture themselves and their immediate family, they should be left alone. To the degree that they start metastasizing into a cancer that is capable of attacking others, they should be stopped. There is nothing fun about them. They make up somewhere between 10-20% of all believers. If you are among them, please go away.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Again, if we're a lunatic fringe, then how are we such a massive threat? Your line if thinking is simply illogical.

Yeah. What threat could a lunatic fringe possibly be?

 

[unofan]

Classic paranoia. Plus the usual if we're a fading minority, how can we be so threatening. Not only paranoid, but consistently paranoid.

Some of the worst events in history have been committed by fading groups who are struggling to hold on to the last vestiges of their power in the face of demographic changes.

While Christianity loses its hold on about .5% of the population every year, it is still the majority and will be for at least the next 50 years at a minimum.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

It's hardly limited to Christians, Bob. Christians just happen to be the main religious force in this country and therefore the most widely used example. The same holds true for the Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Shintoists, and the venerated Muslims. Once you allow some group's religion to reign over us all, then you've opened Pandora's box and you live in a country that will have the political stability of a Saudi Arabia or Egypt - nations that have been held together by ruling force rather than the political cooperation we have here.

You are asking Bob to assume that all religions are created equal, he doesnt believe that and never will. He cant see that having God dictate the law of the land will turn out the same no matter whose God it is because to him his is the only God that matters. His God makes no mistakes (you know minus all the mistakes he makes even in the Bible...not unlike our Courts right joe) and comes from a place of love. The heathens dont! That is why Sharia Law is bad, but laws in the name of Jesus good!

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Yeah. What threat could a lunatic fringe possibly be?

We must be very capable if we're a tiny nutbar fringe but we are going to be able to control everyone else. I guess that's what's called a backhanded complement.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

We must be very capable if we're a tiny nutbar fringe but we are going to be able to control everyone else. I guess that's what's called a backhanded complement.

Well I'd expect you to be powerful beyond your numbers. You do, after all, have omnipotent backing...

5mn_Major makes a good point on the other thread: I probably do pound that key too often, which is ironic because a lot of my pleasurable reading revolves around philosophical questions that lend themselves to spiritual, if not religious, contemplation, and/or to the benefits of taking an agnostic view towards all apparent truths and not claiming anything as settled fact.

I will try not to harp quite so much. I think I probably come across as far more concerned about the deleterious effect of the nutbars than I really am in reality.

(Not inequality of opportunity, though. On that I really am obsessed. )

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Campaign 2016 - People lie the most after a hunt, during a war or before an elect

Well I'd expect you to be powerful beyond your numbers. You do, after all, have omnipotent backing...

5mn_Major makes a good point on the other thread: I probably do pound that key too often, which is ironic because a lot of my pleasurable reading revolves around philosophical questions that lend themselves to spiritual, if not religious, contemplation, and/or to the benefits of taking an agnostic view towards all apparent truths and not claiming anything as settled fact.

I will try not to harp quite so much. I think I probably come across as far more concerned about the deleterious effect of the nutbars than I really am in reality.

(Not inequality of opportunity, though. On that I really am obsessed. )

Fair enough. My guess is if we were sitting across a table at dinner we could have some very fascinating conversations. Internet forums aren't quite as conducive.


I'll put in a good word for you with my omnipotent backing.