You know, the African Americans don't have it so good, either.
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Campaign 2016 Part XXIV: Both candidates are the same, but here's why yours is awful
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You know, the African Americans don't have it so good, either.
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXIV: Both candidates are the same, but here's why yours is aw
Blame Bill Clinton for ignoring that voting block in that speech.
Blame Bill Clinton for ignoring that voting block in that speech.
ericredaxe
Veteran
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXIV: Both candidates are the same, but here's why yours is aw
Voted on the way to work this morning. All of 3 people in line in front of me. The only signs anyone was holding were for our local state representative candidates.
Voted on the way to work this morning. All of 3 people in line in front of me. The only signs anyone was holding were for our local state representative candidates.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXIV: Both candidates are the same, but here's why yours is aw
I don't know too many people who want to trade places with poor blacks living in the inner city, but okay. And I'll direct that at Hovey since its his argument.
Lets be honest here. Nobody has a concrete plan for making those left behind successful. What the country is doing is gravitating towards where the good jobs are, which is generally on the East Coast, West Coast and Texas (or Minny as well). People who are educated leave their crappy areas and work elsewhere. Some like Sanders have proposed a large wealth transfer, which will help these people tread water a little better, but its not going to solve their problem.
I don't know too many people who want to trade places with poor blacks living in the inner city, but okay. And I'll direct that at Hovey since its his argument.
Lets be honest here. Nobody has a concrete plan for making those left behind successful. What the country is doing is gravitating towards where the good jobs are, which is generally on the East Coast, West Coast and Texas (or Minny as well). People who are educated leave their crappy areas and work elsewhere. Some like Sanders have proposed a large wealth transfer, which will help these people tread water a little better, but its not going to solve their problem.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXIV: Both candidates are the same, but here's why yours is aw
Well, then they are idiots if they are voting for trump. The republicans have controlled both chambers of congress, the judiciary, and something like 70% of states.
You can blame this on the democrats all you want, but if you actually open your eyes before you speak you'll find a pretty appalling reality.
Well, then they are idiots if they are voting for trump. The republicans have controlled both chambers of congress, the judiciary, and something like 70% of states.
You can blame this on the democrats all you want, but if you actually open your eyes before you speak you'll find a pretty appalling reality.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXIV: Both candidates are the same, but here's why yours is aw
I will grant you that this thought process doesn't put a whole lot of thought into why some people behind you in line are behind you, whether it is institutional or historical bias or lack of privileges, or just plain lack of effort. All they know is this is where they are at, and you're trying to pick a chosen few and move them ahead.
What I think is really interesting about the psychology of it is that those people already ahead of them in line really don't bother the working class. Whether those people got ahead of them because they were born there, because they are highly educated, or maybe just lucky. It's like when you show up for a movie or sporting event and there are already a bunch of people in line. You just kind of look at it like "thems the breaks." But if someone shows up after you and tries to jump ahead because a friend offers it to them, now what? We direct a much more discerning eye towards those behind us rather than those ahead.
I really think the line metaphor is an excellent one for where we are at politically, and I wish I had thought of it. For reasons that are beyond me, having someone butt ahead of you in line causes great anger in people. I was reminded of that this weekend in the Twin Cities as I was driving from Bloomington to downtown Minneapolis. As you travel north on 35W there is a horrible bottleneck where westbound I94 traffic is reduced to one lane. Even on an average Saturday afternoon you will see cars backed up miles, waiting in that single lane to take the exit. Meanwhile, in the center and left lanes you have people who whiz along at the speed limit, only to cut in at the last moment to take the exit. You could write a book on human psychology if you sat at that merge point and watched behavior.
I just think it's funny that people like you and Kep, as well as the working class whites upon whom you heap your scorn are all saying the exact same thing -- that what is wrong with this country is we need to make it so people are paid an honest days wage for an honest days work. Except when the left speaks it they are usually referring to the unmerited riches of the 1%, while the working class whites are complaining about handouts to those behind them.
I think that is exactly what working class whites who support Trump believe. That is really the point. They believe they have gotten to their place in line by doing just that. They recognize they are not further ahead, because of their limitations (say,lack of college education). But they object to people advancing ahead of them not through the efforts of those people who were behind them, but because you (who I take to be liberals, government, do-gooders, et al) are moving them there because you have decided they are entitled to this unearned advancement.Sorry Hovey and Sicatoka,but aren't we ALL supposed to follow Saint Ronnie Reagan's lead and PICK YOURSELF UP BY YOUR BOOTSTRAPS!!! I mean, that's what conservatives believe, right? That's what we were told to do in the 80's, right? So....why doesn't it apply to those poor God-fearin' bigoted rural uneducated folks again?
I will grant you that this thought process doesn't put a whole lot of thought into why some people behind you in line are behind you, whether it is institutional or historical bias or lack of privileges, or just plain lack of effort. All they know is this is where they are at, and you're trying to pick a chosen few and move them ahead.
What I think is really interesting about the psychology of it is that those people already ahead of them in line really don't bother the working class. Whether those people got ahead of them because they were born there, because they are highly educated, or maybe just lucky. It's like when you show up for a movie or sporting event and there are already a bunch of people in line. You just kind of look at it like "thems the breaks." But if someone shows up after you and tries to jump ahead because a friend offers it to them, now what? We direct a much more discerning eye towards those behind us rather than those ahead.
I really think the line metaphor is an excellent one for where we are at politically, and I wish I had thought of it. For reasons that are beyond me, having someone butt ahead of you in line causes great anger in people. I was reminded of that this weekend in the Twin Cities as I was driving from Bloomington to downtown Minneapolis. As you travel north on 35W there is a horrible bottleneck where westbound I94 traffic is reduced to one lane. Even on an average Saturday afternoon you will see cars backed up miles, waiting in that single lane to take the exit. Meanwhile, in the center and left lanes you have people who whiz along at the speed limit, only to cut in at the last moment to take the exit. You could write a book on human psychology if you sat at that merge point and watched behavior.
I just think it's funny that people like you and Kep, as well as the working class whites upon whom you heap your scorn are all saying the exact same thing -- that what is wrong with this country is we need to make it so people are paid an honest days wage for an honest days work. Except when the left speaks it they are usually referring to the unmerited riches of the 1%, while the working class whites are complaining about handouts to those behind them.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXIV: Both candidates are the same, but here's why yours is aw
You're absolutely correct in that statement. In fact, they had it really bad for much of the last eight years, when you look at unemployment figures. The reason why, I believe, that WJ Clinton called out the plight of the poor white is that they were accustomed to seeing one of their own as POTUS and instead were seeing someone with whom most of them could not relate. So they became despondent. Trump tapped into that feeling, effectively race baiting them against different groups of people: immigrants. Except for one thing, President Obama "is a Kenyan!"
You're absolutely correct in that statement. In fact, they had it really bad for much of the last eight years, when you look at unemployment figures. The reason why, I believe, that WJ Clinton called out the plight of the poor white is that they were accustomed to seeing one of their own as POTUS and instead were seeing someone with whom most of them could not relate. So they became despondent. Trump tapped into that feeling, effectively race baiting them against different groups of people: immigrants. Except for one thing, President Obama "is a Kenyan!"
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXIV: Both candidates are the same, but here's why yours is aw
Correct.
Correct, with the caveat that the "tread water" will be a very short term.
Correct.
Correct, with the caveat that the "tread water" will be a very short term.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXIV: Both candidates are the same, but here's why yours is aw
If you're too dumb to figure out how a zipper merge works, maybe you belong at the back of the line.
If you're too dumb to figure out how a zipper merge works, maybe you belong at the back of the line.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXIV: Both candidates are the same, but here's why yours is aw
I don't think you understand what liberals think. The left doesn't call it unmerited. I have no idea where you get that idea. They just think that the rich should pay their fair share.
I don't think you understand what liberals think. The left doesn't call it unmerited. I have no idea where you get that idea. They just think that the rich should pay their fair share.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXIV: Both candidates are the same, but here's why yours is aw
The problem is these people are being played for suckers by Trump, who's telling them that merely hating blacks/Muslims/immigrants and putting in place policies to screw these people is going to solve their problems. No offense, but if they're that stupid to believe that, they get what they deserve. Whites collect more welfare than blacks for example. Its up to all citizens to figure out what's causing their predicament and advocate for a change that will improve it, and not opt for feel good bigotry. I'll say again to you, who really wants to trade places with the poverty of the inner city?
Oddly enough, its funny how you rail against stereotypes while assuming me (and Kep) are trust fund babies. While I (and maybe Kep) may be in the upper middle class currently, I came from a very working class family in a former industrial area. My relatives were thrilled at the promise of Ronald Reagan in 1980 and all the jobs and prosperity he was going to bring back. Fortunately for them, they realized not too long afterwards that he was full of sh it, and in fact nothing really changed where they were. FWIW, not many of them who are still with us 36 years later are voting for Trump this time around. We've seen it all before.
The problem is these people are being played for suckers by Trump, who's telling them that merely hating blacks/Muslims/immigrants and putting in place policies to screw these people is going to solve their problems. No offense, but if they're that stupid to believe that, they get what they deserve. Whites collect more welfare than blacks for example. Its up to all citizens to figure out what's causing their predicament and advocate for a change that will improve it, and not opt for feel good bigotry. I'll say again to you, who really wants to trade places with the poverty of the inner city?
Oddly enough, its funny how you rail against stereotypes while assuming me (and Kep) are trust fund babies. While I (and maybe Kep) may be in the upper middle class currently, I came from a very working class family in a former industrial area. My relatives were thrilled at the promise of Ronald Reagan in 1980 and all the jobs and prosperity he was going to bring back. Fortunately for them, they realized not too long afterwards that he was full of sh it, and in fact nothing really changed where they were. FWIW, not many of them who are still with us 36 years later are voting for Trump this time around. We've seen it all before.
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXIV: Both candidates are the same, but here's why yours is aw
"Reichsmarshal" Gaga at a Clinton rally?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/21382...t-clinton-rally-is-likened-to-a-nazi-uniform/
Don't folks see Gaga was trying to pull off the Michael Jackson look ... and failed. Epically.
https://thejacketshop.co.uk/michael-jackson-CTE-jacket/MJ-CTE-03.jpg
"Reichsmarshal" Gaga at a Clinton rally?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/21382...t-clinton-rally-is-likened-to-a-nazi-uniform/
Don't folks see Gaga was trying to pull off the Michael Jackson look ... and failed. Epically.
https://thejacketshop.co.uk/michael-jackson-CTE-jacket/MJ-CTE-03.jpg
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXIV: Both candidates are the same, but here's why yours is aw
You know he gave other speeches right?
You know he gave other speeches right?
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXIV: Both candidates are the same, but here's why yours is aw
From what I understand, "No" is what most of the conservative lawmakers favor.
From what I understand, "No" is what most of the conservative lawmakers favor.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXIV: Both candidates are the same, but here's why yours is aw
Yep, I voted NO.
Yep, I voted NO.
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXIV: Both candidates are the same, but here's why yours is aw
What'd he get paid for those?
And I did say "that" speech.
What'd he get paid for those?
And I did say "that" speech.
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXIV: Both candidates are the same, but here's why yours is aw
As a favor to the rest of us unfamiliar with particular state issues, can those be moved to a "state ballots" thread?
As a favor to the rest of us unfamiliar with particular state issues, can those be moved to a "state ballots" thread?
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXIV: Both candidates are the same, but here's why yours is aw
People have been voting against their own self interests forever. Why do you think Red States are the poorest...because the Poor are told to believe they are poor because someone else screwed them. So they vote for the platitude and lose. That is why the Gulf is still a mess (regulations and federal money are bad!!!) and why tens of thousands in Florida lost out on Medicaid.
When a Republican comes up with a plan to help the poor of any color, they might actually have a point. Since they are against even a raise in the minimum wage (that would help those White Working Class Americans Left Behind Sica has a hardon for) to help out let alone public assistance they can take their fake platitudes and shove it.
Hillary may be a Wall Street shill...but she and her cronies care more about the disenfranchised than the leadership of the GOP does. Actions speak louder than words and the GOP doesnt even want them voting let alone earning a living wage.
People have been voting against their own self interests forever. Why do you think Red States are the poorest...because the Poor are told to believe they are poor because someone else screwed them. So they vote for the platitude and lose. That is why the Gulf is still a mess (regulations and federal money are bad!!!) and why tens of thousands in Florida lost out on Medicaid.
When a Republican comes up with a plan to help the poor of any color, they might actually have a point. Since they are against even a raise in the minimum wage (that would help those White Working Class Americans Left Behind Sica has a hardon for) to help out let alone public assistance they can take their fake platitudes and shove it.
Hillary may be a Wall Street shill...but she and her cronies care more about the disenfranchised than the leadership of the GOP does. Actions speak louder than words and the GOP doesnt even want them voting let alone earning a living wage.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXIV: Both candidates are the same, but here's why yours is aw
What's your reasoning? I voted YES. My thinking was that it doesn't make sense that their salary is effectively frozen in place because of politics.
What's your reasoning? I voted YES. My thinking was that it doesn't make sense that their salary is effectively frozen in place because of politics.
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