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Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

Just saw Trump's performance.

Amazing as he was doing quite well and then nosedived.

Must be incredibly frustrating to be working his campaign coz the guy from the first part of that performance could have probably given Hilary a run at this.

But the true character broke through in the end.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

Oh yeah... and that woman in the red dress... or should I say her...


EDIT: Is that Maria Bartawhatever from CNBC?
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

I thought the booing of trump was a bit much. I thought he was quite funny. The Catholic bit was a collar-tugger but everything else was just fine.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

Gurtholfin said:
Oh yeah... and that woman in the red dress... or should I say her...


EDIT: Is that Maria Bartawhatever from CNBC?
Click to expand...

I noticed her, Giuliani, Gayle King, Norah O'Donnell, Kissinger, and a few others.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

Hillary was decent as well. She had some terrible moments as well.

The best part was Giuliani staring death lasers.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

The hearse joke was great. Why she got booed for that I'll never know.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

burd said:
This election is not over, but I wonder where we'd be if Cruz were on the ticket.
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The election was over when Trump was nominated. You never thought he actually would get elected,did you?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

walrus said:
The election was over when Trump was nominated. You never thought he actually would get elected,did you?
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No, but I didn't think he would self-destruct the way he did. When I said the election was not over (and wondered about a Cruz candidacy) I was thinking mainly of down-ticket effects, which are not yet known and which represent the harm that could possibly have been avoided had his handlers been able to prevent him from acting like a 15-year old. Acting out may be a better way of describing it. I'm surprised the guy didn't stick out his tongue at the debates or flip her off. It was too late for him to completely avoid the 2005 tape, but another candidate could have avoided catastrophe, IMO.

Winning the Office is the main prize, of course, particularly with the SCOTUS implications, but gaining a majority on Capitol Hill would affect what the Office means, at least for a cycle or two.
 
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burd said:
No, but I didn't think he would self-destruct the way he did. When I said the election was not over (and wondered about a Cruz candidacy) I was thinking mainly of down-ticket effects, which are not yet known and which represent the harm that could possibly have been avoided had his handlers been able to prevent him from acting like a 15-year old. Acting out may be a better way of describing it. I'm surprised the guy didn't stick out his tongue at the debates or flip her off. It was too late for him to completely avoid the 2005 tape, but another candidate could have avoided catastrophe, IMO.

Winning the Office is the main prize, of course, particularly with the SCOTUS implications, but gaining a majority on Capitol Hill would affect what the Office means, at least for a cycle or two.
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I don't believe the repubs had anyone in the primaries who could win the presidency . The party is too splintered at this point. They had no one who could unite the party. This will be their undoing in the future also. They will have strongholds in different parts of the country but nationally they aren't viable.

I know some guys who loved cruz, why? He is a social conservative. That ship has sailed. They better get over it
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

walrus said:
I don't believe the repubs had anyone in the primaries who could win the presidency . The party is too splintered at this point. They had no one who could unite the party. This will be their undoing in the future also. They will have strongholds in different parts of the country but nationally they aren't viable.

I know some guys who loved cruz, why? He is a social conservative. That ship has sailed. They better get over it
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Agree.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

The media thing is really interesting.

We all know that news transitioned from being news and a couple editorials to being entertainment- sometimes having 5 people on a show constantly talking about their own editorials.

So the current media has a financial interest in these elections, since "news" and issues brings viewers, listeners, and readers.

By a country mile, the group that benefits the most by big money in elections is media- since that's where all of it is spent. They are happy when a very rich Bush is down- as it's easy to put his ads on TV and nobody cares. The ads are not like shows- nobody cares who or how many watch them- they are already paid for.

And with the current version of entertainment news- the stuff that make people angry and watch is what they put on TV. Trump calls this some kind of ganging up- it is just because he keeps inventing new ways for him to be in the news- but instead of being good or even neutral- it's all bad, sometimes very bad. That's how he got through the primaries without spending anything on ads- it was all free via the media.

Even the public news has Trump dominating the news- and this is the closest we have to profit free news, where gathering viewer at all costs and putting on as many ads is much diminished compared to all other media sources.

It's not as they don't cover Hillary's issues- they try. But for every wiki-leaks article there's 3-4 different things trump says that dominates over that.

It's too bad that News has transition to being entertainment, but that is how viewers want to see it. And they choose to watch people they agree with, as opposed just listening to the news, processing it, and THEN generating an opinion.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

All y'all complain about blowing the whistle on election fraud... yet they're using DHS to try to "prevent" it...
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

Don't you all kid yourselves. Trump had a shot at winning this thing. He blew it.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

It's interesting to note that more than a year ago the Clinton camp feared Little Marco and Jeb! the most, and (disclosed in an email, of course) decided to use their considerable media clout and contacts to really push and give a serious voice to the three radicals, Carson, Cruz, and Trump. We won't know for years, or perhaps ever, what effect they may have achieved, if any, but of course we do know that Carson led briefly and Trump and Cruz finished 1-2.

I'd say without Trump in the race at all, it was likely to be Marco or Jeb! and while both had flaws (Marco was exposed as very inexperienced and Jeb! isn't very good on stage, plus a Bush) I'm not sure those rise to the level of HRC's baggage and ongoing scandals which have been muted by Trump's major gaffes.

I'd speculate Jebbers could have maybe pulled it off. He's moderate, (more of a '92 Bill) strong on policy, has a clean record, has broad Latino appeal, (he'd win Florida by 10 points) and his last name would help hold the hardcore R's and Evangelicals together in a general election. And against Hilary his weakness of being part of a "Bush Dynasty" would be reduced by comparison. He'd have outdrawn independents when push came to shove, I think.

A big problem for generic R's and regular right-leaners is that they've let the far right control the primary by sitting on the couch while the Evangelicals and Tea Party turns out en masse and pushes the nominee into crazyland in recent cycles. Maybe that will change, but I can't say I'm confident there's not more apathy on the horizon.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

Wisko McBadgerton said:
A big problem for generic R's and regular right-leaners is that they've let the far right control the primary by sitting on the couch while the Evangelicals and Tea Party turns out en masse and pushes the nominee into crazyland in recent cycles. Maybe that will change, but I can't say I'm confident there's not more apathy on the horizon.
Click to expand...

The same thing that applies to the generic Republicans applies to pretty much all of the Democrats. They don't get involved in non-4 year elections, and generally don't get involved in the primaries.

Here in Michigan- the fact that most elections are not just off cycle- they are odd year elections AND not November. That all combines to mean that the electorate are the enthusiests and angry people- and few others.

With that, it's hard to really determine how a state really leans. And how an entire country really leans.

The fact that we are hammered every day with headlines about this- and it's going on over a year of Presidential news with no real work by anyone- it's very grating and old. For sure, it does not mean that people will get out and involved. I can say this about myself, honestly.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

Wisko McBadgerton said:
It's interesting to note that more than a year ago the Clinton camp feared Little Marco and Jeb! the most, and (disclosed in an email, of course) decided to use their considerable media clout and contacts to really push and give a serious voice to the three radicals, Carson, Cruz, and Trump. We won't know for years, or perhaps ever, what effect they may have achieved, if any, but of course we do know that Carson led briefly and Trump and Cruz finished 1-2.

I'd say without Trump in the race at all, it was likely to be Marco or Jeb! and while both had flaws (Marco was exposed as very inexperienced and Jeb! isn't very good on stage, plus a Bush) I'm not sure those rise to the level of HRC's baggage and ongoing scandals which have been muted by Trump's major gaffes.

I'd speculate Jebbers could have maybe pulled it off. He's moderate, (more of a '92 Bill) strong on policy, has a clean record, has broad Latino appeal, (he'd win Florida by 10 points) and his last name would help hold the hardcore R's and Evangelicals together in a general election. And against Hilary his weakness of being part of a "Bush Dynasty" would be reduced by comparison. He'd have outdrawn independents when push came to shove, I think.

A big problem for generic R's and regular right-leaners is that they've let the far right control the primary by sitting on the couch while the Evangelicals and Tea Party turns out en masse and pushes the nominee into crazyland in recent cycles. Maybe that will change, but I can't say I'm confident there's not more apathy on the horizon.
Click to expand...

Can't see Jebbers! getting elected dogcatcher at this point. Trump's one salient point is this election has been aren't you sick of the same old same old. Puking up yet another out of touch, clueless Bush pod person would have meant doom. Likewise Little Marco would have been gutted, flayed, and eaten alive by the Clinton campaign. Can you picture him in his pipsqueak voice and kid wearing daddy's suit presence trying to get tough with ISIS?

Of the current crop of candidates, Kasich-Rubio would have been decent. With Ohio locked down he could go after NH and PA, and hope Rubio helps with Hispanics as the first Hispanic on a Presidential ticket. Fundamentally though GOP Presidential candidates face a bigger problem. They're bleeding support all over the country not in just one region (say the Rust Belt) where a particular candidate might have appeal. Say Kasich does solve the Ohio problem or Bush Florida. Great, but they still need to win in places like VA, CO, IA, NV, NH etc. Those states all have little in common. You need someone to come in who already has a national appeal. The next in line after being runner up this year is Calgary Ted. That tells you all you need to know.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

Jeb would have been destroyed in debates because every policy he put forth would have been the same as his brother and we have all seen that movie before. Add in that he doesnt have the charm of his brother or the brains of his father and his name would have killed him.

Marco...he would have choked when called out on anything.

There just wasnt anyone the GOP had that was any good. That is why none of them could gain any traction. Anyone who probably had the record to do so decided not to long ago so they didnt have to deal with the bleep show.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

I did get a kick out of Donald's joke that he bumped into Hillary and she said "Pardon me. " Hardy har har har. And her joke that when people see the Statue of Liberty, they see a symbol of welcoming in immigrants, etc. and when Donald sees the Statue of Liberty, he sees a 4. HA!
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

The pardon me joke was fantastic.
 
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