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Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

I had said Obama was going to be a disaster (back in 2008, I was young and stupid, sue me) but at least he had a reasoned approach that I disagreed with. I didn't like his "I'm going to tax everyone to death because they are successful" approach which I later realized was just Republican propaganda.

Trump doesn't have policy. It's "trust me".

I'm usually a pretty levelheaded guy when it comes to who people vote for since I've voted for Republicans and Democrats over the last two cycles. But this is the first time I can remember where I don't know if I can respect someone if they vote for one of the candidates. That's scary. It shouldn't be this bad. Worse yet, I don't know if I really want to associate with someone that is ok with voting for an overt racist hellbent on destroying some of the bedrock upon which this country was founded. Freedom of the press. Contract law. Religious freedoms. I'm even questioning if he wouldn't put the very concept of citizenship up to the hysterical mob.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Kepler said:
I just can't believe this. I think Trump's floor is 29%, just as Dubya's was. That is the Republican Mendoza Line, below which is nothing but inchoate resentment and the cessation of all mental activity unrelated to violence.

Every point above 29 is one we can and should contest. Those people are reasonable; they probably have real reservations about giving the keys to this drunk. They just really hate the other driver.
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You wanna know the worst part? Her floor is the same as his. Look out.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

The Sicatoka said:
First, I'm not so sure if given the Presidency I may not befall my lesser angels. I'll be a benevolent dictator, honest. ;)

And I do believe in the system of governance, the Constitution, that got us here.

But when you say, " ... he shouldn't have the support of a major party and all their camp followers but he does, because of they are playing to their personal political advantage,"

Firstly, who are you to decide which candidate a major party should choose. I won't dare claim that for the Ds, Rs, Ls, et al. I know who I'd prefer, but I may not be in the majority.

Next, when, ever, in the history of mankind, has "personal political advantage" not been Rule 1 in politics.

Trump is nothing new; he's just the despicable response to the despicable system we've grown, an "outsider" :rolleyes:, writ large and on full display.

His primary opponent? She's the epic despicable insider of the despicable system.

What an awesome choice.

And yes, the system is despicable right now. But it's not irreparable. I do believe there are still a few good people out there ... somewhere.
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I know people have been raising this question for weeks, but what specific policy positions or sepcific, proven acts do you rely on to make this statement. I don't think I've ever heard an answer.

Is there a term in rhetoric which would cover the following: If my position (candidate) is flawed, then all positions are equally flawed.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

dxmnkd316 said:
Trump doesn't have policy. It's "trust me".
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And that's the worst part. I certainly don't agree line by line with every item of the Democratic platform. But at least I know what that platform is, why it wants, and how it would go about getting done. That way, for the pieces I disagree with, I can voice my opinion against them and influence my representatives to the best of my ability. I might not be successful, but I at least know how the game will be played and what effect I may or may not have on it.

Trump's platform is "here's all the groups responsible for bad things happening to you and trust me we'll find a way to make them pay". No coherent idea of how that will be done. It's basically trying to find the right combination of groups to put into column B so that enough people are left to find their way into column A and vote for him. Early in the primary those in B were Muslims and Mexicans. During the convention it appeared to add inner city thugs (you know, those responsible for all of the fictional increase in murders and violence) and all those uptight coastal educated elitists. The thing is, if he actually had some plan to get what he wanted done, and what sort of legislation would actually accomplish that, well, it would still be bad, but we would at least know what the proposal is. But we don't even have that. We have a bunch of inneundos and half promises that he has no way of fulfilling. Certainly it would be near impossible for him to accomplish them by democratic means. But he's gotten his followers so worked up, so convinced it's these people responsible for every gone wrong in the last 50 years, so sure that if they don't carpetbomb Syria that ISIS will march right into main street Oklahoma, that those who elect him will not sit by twiddling their thumbs and let him do nothing. They're going to force his hand and make him do something to show all of those people responsible for the perceived slights against him. And given his statements that he will get back at any press who said bad things about him and the number of times he has commented about making groups pay, I don't have the confidence he won't go along. And while I'd like to think our system is stronger than a madman and his cadre of nutjob followers, you know what, I'd really like to not ****ing test it.

I miss Romney.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

French Rage said:
"here's all the groups responsible for bad things happening to you and trust me we'll find a way to make them pay".
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I can't quite seem to put my finger on where I've heard that line of thinking before. I know it wasn't the Buddhists. But wasn't it the group that was sort of like them?
 
dxmnkd316 said:
But this is the first time I can remember where I don't know if I can respect someone if they vote for one of the candidates. That's scary. It shouldn't be this bad. Worse yet, I don't know if I really want to associate with someone that is ok with voting for an overt racist hellbent on destroying some of the bedrock upon which this country was founded. Freedom of the press. Contract law. Religious freedoms. I'm even questioning if he wouldn't put the very concept of citizenship up to the hysterical mob.
Click to expand...

This
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

unofan said:
Hillary wins 3, Trump wins 1. There's four EVs
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I thought there was just 2, either way Trump isn't winning the state. He might not even win 2nd district. I can see a lot changing after debates.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

walrus said:
I thought there was just 2, either way Trump isn't winning the state. He might not even win 2nd district. I can see a lot changing after debates.
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3 EC votes is the minimum for each state - 2 senators and one rep..
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

dxmnkd316 said:
What do you find so despicable about her?
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Missing billing records that appear in the White House.
Landing under sniper fire.
No classified emails.
It was a video.

She's smarter than all of that, all of that; however, her default mode is, well, questionably truthful (some have used harsher terms, wait for it). Worse? The questionable truthfulness, that's fixable. Not fixing it (the lying) is stupid. "Yup, there was classified. It was a mistake. I've retrained and so has all my staff" is all it would've taken. The cover-up (or excuses) is always worse than the original problem.

At least Trump is just plain dumb.

A lying fool or an ignorant fool (or a fool of another sort).

Yay us!
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

The Sicatoka said:
The epic hyperbole (and that is what it is), then, now, is what really shuts me down. The system is set up to preclude tyrants. That's why there are three branches. We elect a President, not a king. If the President is that bad there are mechanisms.
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I would like to believe this, and at some points in our nation's history it may even have been a fairly accurate assumption. But for it to be true, it has to be presumed that the the people who occupy each of the three branches put the country first. Right now I believe our congress has never embodied the spirit of country over party less. It doesn't take very long for someone who means to do the things I fear most in Trump to get so far ahead of the forces that could stop them, in the relative blink of an eye we could be like Nazi Germany at the dawn of Hitler's reign of terror.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

WeAreNDHockey said:
Right now I believe our congress has never embodied the spirit of country over party less.
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Here we agree completely. But I still do believe there are a few good people out there that will step up when they are needed the worst.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

dxmnkd316 said:
I'm usually a pretty levelheaded guy when it comes to who people vote for since I've voted for Republicans and Democrats over the last two cycles. But this is the first time I can remember where I don't know if I can respect someone if they vote for one of the candidates. That's scary. It shouldn't be this bad. Worse yet, I don't know if I really want to associate with someone that is ok with voting for an overt racist hellbent on destroying some of the bedrock upon which this country was founded. Freedom of the press. Contract law. Religious freedoms. I'm even questioning if he wouldn't put the very concept of citizenship up to the hysterical mob.
Click to expand...

Despite the content of some of my wigged out hyperbole filled posts, this could describe me. I'm level-headed. I have friends with political viewpoints from one end of the spectrum to the other. I have political views (probably more accurate to term them social views) that are from one end of the political spectrum to the other. I voted for GHW Bush twice. I voted for Barack Obama twice. I have never cast a ballot with fear though. I am genuinely fearful of where the world will be in 5 years if Trump wins. Genuinely, truly, fearful. The idea, the ideal, of America is pretty terrific. It was born with a tremendous potential. But we're not strong enough and open enough and good enough to just succeed because we're America. I don't know that we're actually a strong enough nation to survive Trump. I hope I'm wrong. And I really hope I don't have to find out.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

The Sicatoka said:
Here we agree completely. But I still do believe there are a few good people out there that will step up when they are needed the worst.
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I hope -- pray even -- you're correct. Abraham Lincoln was around when the country needed him. Of course he couldn't get elected today. Too d am n ugly. :)
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

WeAreNDHockey said:
I hope -- pray even -- you're correct. Abraham Lincoln was around when the country needed him. Of course he couldn't get elected today. Too d am n ugly. :)
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... and honest. ;)

And no one with a beard will ever win the Presidency again.
 
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