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Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable
- Thread starter Kepler
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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable
I'm not sure I get why the Trump team (Pence this time) is STILL fumbling the David Duke issue. For a campaign that claims its not all about white supremacy, it seems like saying Duke is in fact deplorable is a layup handed to you by a friendly interviewer (in this case the absurd Wolf Blitzer).
I'm not sure I get why the Trump team (Pence this time) is STILL fumbling the David Duke issue. For a campaign that claims its not all about white supremacy, it seems like saying Duke is in fact deplorable is a layup handed to you by a friendly interviewer (in this case the absurd Wolf Blitzer).
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable
I wrote up a whole screed on "PCness" on the old thread and learned a lesson: when the thread closes while you're writing a new post, your post is lost. Thpppt!
So, tl;dwtr: Both sides have PC totems. Liberals may be in control of campuses now, but in the past the shoe has been on the other foot and I didn't heard cries for intellectual freedom from the right. Likewise, there are plenty of public spaces still riddled with conservative prohibitions. The criticism of soldiers or cops or Christianity will get you a sock in the nose in plenty of places. Community standards all too frequently define what is permitted to be said, and we should fight against that whether the would-be transgressor is left or right. Voltaire and all that jazz.
I wrote up a whole screed on "PCness" on the old thread and learned a lesson: when the thread closes while you're writing a new post, your post is lost. Thpppt!
So, tl;dwtr: Both sides have PC totems. Liberals may be in control of campuses now, but in the past the shoe has been on the other foot and I didn't heard cries for intellectual freedom from the right. Likewise, there are plenty of public spaces still riddled with conservative prohibitions. The criticism of soldiers or cops or Christianity will get you a sock in the nose in plenty of places. Community standards all too frequently define what is permitted to be said, and we should fight against that whether the would-be transgressor is left or right. Voltaire and all that jazz.
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable
The Alt-Right is the natural outcome of significant segments of society having been called "racist" and told to be quiet for what they believe when it is not in alignment with the cause celeb du jour.
The word "racist" has been thrown around so much that it no longer has meaning much less sting. As Kep has said about Trump, this is the natural outcome from what the last 30 years of identity or group politics has wrought.
Ultimately, I'd rather have this undercurrent speak out in the long tradition of American free speech. That allows everyone to draw a bogey on it and see where it's at. The alternative (to alt?) is force them to shut up again, have them go quiet and fester, and then show up with much worse than words and memes.
Too many in today's world have forgotten this sage posit:
"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." -- Evelyn Beatrice Hall
If find myself applying that in every direction of today's political spectrum.
The Alt-Right is the natural outcome of significant segments of society having been called "racist" and told to be quiet for what they believe when it is not in alignment with the cause celeb du jour.
The word "racist" has been thrown around so much that it no longer has meaning much less sting. As Kep has said about Trump, this is the natural outcome from what the last 30 years of identity or group politics has wrought.
Ultimately, I'd rather have this undercurrent speak out in the long tradition of American free speech. That allows everyone to draw a bogey on it and see where it's at. The alternative (to alt?) is force them to shut up again, have them go quiet and fester, and then show up with much worse than words and memes.
Too many in today's world have forgotten this sage posit:
"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." -- Evelyn Beatrice Hall
If find myself applying that in every direction of today's political spectrum.
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable
All Trump would have to say is, "Mr. Duke can vote for whomever he chooses. He's one vote in the electorate. Next question."
Trump, Pence, and their handlers aren't smart enough to figure that out.
All Trump would have to say is, "Mr. Duke can vote for whomever he chooses. He's one vote in the electorate. Next question."
Trump, Pence, and their handlers aren't smart enough to figure that out.
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The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable
Props for the Bill the Cat reference, but check your spelling.
Props for the Bill the Cat reference, but check your spelling.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable
I think he ought to go farther than that. Dude's a Klansman. Rover's right: this is a case where it is both moral and politically savvy to say "If Mr. Duke respects my judgment enough to endorse me, may I add that I hope Mr. Duke rejects the bigotted and hateful notions which have colored his past speech and actions. There is no place in the Republican party, or in my campaign, for idiotic theories or incendiary rhetoric of racial supremacy or purity."
I think he ought to go farther than that. Dude's a Klansman. Rover's right: this is a case where it is both moral and politically savvy to say "If Mr. Duke respects my judgment enough to endorse me, may I add that I hope Mr. Duke rejects the bigotted and hateful notions which have colored his past speech and actions. There is no place in the Republican party, or in my campaign, for idiotic theories or incendiary rhetoric of racial supremacy or purity."
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Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable
Crap. Only 2 p's.
Props for the Bill the Cat reference, but check your spelling.
Crap. Only 2 p's.
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable
The British press never disappoints. Now they claim Hillary was getting a neuro screening while waiting for the van. < facepalm >
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eurological-test-collapsed-9-11-memorial.html
The British press never disappoints. Now they claim Hillary was getting a neuro screening while waiting for the van. < facepalm >
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eurological-test-collapsed-9-11-memorial.html
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable
There's only one problem with that: You just gave free air time to Mr. Duke's views. Duke wins (sorry for that last part UNC fans).
There's only one problem with that: You just gave free air time to Mr. Duke's views. Duke wins (sorry for that last part UNC fans).
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable
And that would concern Trump....why? Politically the best thing to do is come out and blast the guy. A compliant press would be all over it as the umpteenth "pivot" of this election season where Trump finally shows his moderation. I'm fairly certain in some lamestream media quarters it would be hailed as the Second Gettysburg Address!
And that would concern Trump....why? Politically the best thing to do is come out and blast the guy. A compliant press would be all over it as the umpteenth "pivot" of this election season where Trump finally shows his moderation. I'm fairly certain in some lamestream media quarters it would be hailed as the Second Gettysburg Address!
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable
Is he a deplorable? Don't we have to placate him then?
Is he a deplorable? Don't we have to placate him then?
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable
RE: The Deplorable comment...
To me, this is a MASSIVE lost opportunity for the Clinton campaign. Instead of just brushing the group off, they should have applied some of the same ideas that they plan to other people who are radicalizing around the world. For the most part, it's the same cultural/tribal mechanisms that push people to the radical right as pushing Muslims to radical Islam. Same tools can be used, same application, and this group of people are here in the US.
She identified the ones that were left behind as ones they need to figure out and attract. She should have identified the others as an opportunity to reduce the racist right or general A**holes where people just like to anger others for fun.
RE: The Deplorable comment...
To me, this is a MASSIVE lost opportunity for the Clinton campaign. Instead of just brushing the group off, they should have applied some of the same ideas that they plan to other people who are radicalizing around the world. For the most part, it's the same cultural/tribal mechanisms that push people to the radical right as pushing Muslims to radical Islam. Same tools can be used, same application, and this group of people are here in the US.
She identified the ones that were left behind as ones they need to figure out and attract. She should have identified the others as an opportunity to reduce the racist right or general A**holes where people just like to anger others for fun.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable
And the same mechanisms and psychology that fueled the rise of fascism in the 30s: resentment, scapegoating, and a fanatical drive to restore the "purity" of "traditional values."
It is easy to imagine Goebbels looking over Berlin or bin Laden looking over Riyadh and muttering "I don't recognize my country anymore."
And the same mechanisms and psychology that fueled the rise of fascism in the 30s: resentment, scapegoating, and a fanatical drive to restore the "purity" of "traditional values."
It is easy to imagine Goebbels looking over Berlin or bin Laden looking over Riyadh and muttering "I don't recognize my country anymore."
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