Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!

[rufus]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!

Here's the thing- what is it of value that google produces? Besides advertising?

What? They got a web browser, a bunch of electronic book readers, tablets and phones, etc. Granted, that's all stuff made by someone else and they slap their name on it, but that's pretty much any American manufacturer these days.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!

And EODS, I think Slappy is paraphrasing a bit from KFAN (PA uses it) but like 95% of the people here wouldnt get that. If he isnt...then I got nothing

That's Mr. Slap to you and this is correct.

You know how long it's been since I lived in the Twin Cities? My first thought was "Who's that? Oh yeah, that guy from PA and Dubay!"

there's a difference between being a character (Bucky fan) and having character (Goldy fan).

The quality of said character is most certainly up for debate.

 

[Almington]

What? They got a web browser, a bunch of electronic book readers, tablets and phones, etc. Granted, that's all stuff made by someone else and they slap their name on it, but that's pretty much any American manufacturer these days.

Google, Facebook, and even Amazon and Apple all deal in information products. Each service has multiple products with millions or even billions of active users and with more uses comes more information that is collected on each of those users individually and different groups of users. It's all about being able to target the right products to the right consumers. That is an incredibly powerful (and valuable) tool for anyone selling a product or service.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!

Google, Facebook, and even Amazon and Apple all deal in information products. Each service has multiple products with millions or even billions of active users and with more uses comes more information that is collected on each of those users individually and different groups of users. It's all about being able to target the right products to the right consumers. That is an incredibly powerful (and valuable) tool for anyone selling a product or service.

When you read their financials- they overcharge for it, based on the effort it takes them to provide it- revenues are 4x the cost to produce those revenues.

Car companies have revenues closer to 10-25% revenue over cost.

If google had some real worldwide competition, I bet their product would become a whole lot cheaper. But that's for a different thread.

The point I still make is that Wall Street is focused on too much, and that the income that most of them get from it should considered equal to all other income, thus taxed equally.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!

What? They got a web browser, a bunch of electronic book readers, tablets and phones, etc. Granted, that's all stuff made by someone else and they slap their name on it, but that's pretty much any American manufacturer these days.

Uh- car companies generally make most of their products themselves. Especially the hard points- body, engine, trans- etc.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!

Did anyone think Trump would actually pivot to the middle for the general?

Surprisingly a lot of people were saying this, including some USCHO lefty posters! Like you can get away with that nowadays.

If you're a Republican facing the general electorate, you have two choices. 1) Try to present yourself as a non-threatening plutocrat in the hopes of expanding your appeal to the middle (the Romney approach) and you'll have an unmotivated base but get your 47% of the vote, or 2) go extreme nationalist/white privilege and max out the base but have zero appeal to the middle. That will get Trump 45% of the vote probably. What Goopers needs is a strong 3rd party bid to siphon off votes from the Dems. Unfortunately for them a libertarian is going to take more votes from Trump than anybody else.

 

[GrinCDXX]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!

Uh- car companies generally make most of their products themselves. Especially the hard points- body, engine, trans- etc.

It's a bit of a moot point anyway since the money Google makes off any of those things is a rounding error on their bottom line.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!

Here's the thing- what is it of value that google produces? Besides advertising?

Here you go! Handy Link!



I think one way to look at it is that Google mostly produces tools.

Really not much different then say, producing a screwdriver, except that Google has devised a way to put directed advertising on the screwdriver handle and charge the advertiser enough that they can afford to just give you the screwdriver for "free" and still make a profit. (This would be a better example if 1.7 billion people used a screwdriver several times a day.) I think because of this unfamiliar model it makes it easier to feel they aren't producing anything of value. Perhaps if we had to pay a subscription fee, or a nickel every time we used a search engine it might seem more evident that it's a real thing they make. I remember when a copy of Lotus 123 was pretty expensive, for example.

 

[rufus]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!

Uh- car companies generally make most of their products themselves. Especially the hard points- body, engine, trans- etc.

Which are made up of a bunch of pieces and components sourced from all over, especially from Asian companies.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!

Which are made up of a bunch of pieces and components sourced from all over, especially from Asian companies.

Depending on the company, not as much as you imply. As I pointed out, the castings and stamping are all done locally.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!

Here you go! Handy Link!



I think one way to look at it is that Google mostly produces tools.

Really not much different then say, producing a screwdriver, except that Google has devised a way to put directed advertising on the screwdriver handle and charge the advertiser enough that they can afford to just give you the screwdriver for "free" and still make a profit. (This would be a better example if 1.7 billion people used a screwdriver several times a day.) I think because of this unfamiliar model it makes it easier to feel they aren't producing anything of value. Perhaps if we had to pay a subscription fee, or a nickel every time we used a search engine it might seem more evident that it's a real thing they make. I remember when a copy of Lotus 123 was pretty expensive, for example.

Again, looking at the revenue vs. cost- they apparently over charge a lot for those tools.

 

[rufus]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!

Depending on the company, not as much as you imply. As I pointed out, the castings and stamping are all done locally.

Don't they need a minimum amount of components made here to be allowed to call a vehicle (or anything for that matter) "made in the USA"? Cars.com says that as of 2015, there were only ten cars built that could claim to have 75% of their content domestically made. It's more accurate to say that cars are "assembled" here.

https://www.cars.com/articles/the-2015-american-made-index-1420680649381/

Not to mention the models that are entirely built outside of the USA, and then imported.

But car makers are one of the few that actually do "assemble" products with American workers. So many "manufacturers" of other goods(toasters, electronics, clothing, washing machines, etc.) just slap their name on something some Asian company has made, and call it their own. Many of them don't even design their own products, they just choose a product from a company's samples, and say, that's the one we want.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!

Again, looking at the revenue vs. cost- they apparently over charge a lot for those tools.

Cost of production has little to do with the price paid by consumer. Just because your industry works with certain margins doesn't mean others must work that way too.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!

Again, looking at the revenue vs. cost- they apparently over charge a lot for those tools.

I don't agree cost is a basis for price. I'd say the two are unrelated.


Edit: Missed St. Clown's reply, but I'll leave it anyway.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!

Cost of production has little to do with the price paid by consumer. Just because your industry works with certain margins doesn't mean others must work that way too.

That's kind of my point. Look at their financials- revenue is about 4x the cost to make the revenue. It would take a whole lot of expensive R&D to make up for that difference. So my conclusion is that they overcharge. Good for them.

Still- my core point- we focus too much on Wall Street for our economy.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!

I don't agree cost is a basis for price. I'd say the two are unrelated.

Ok. But the intention of the reporting is 1) revenue, and 2) the cost to produce that revenue product. How one can conclude they are not related- I suppose you can.

If not, then it just adds to my point that Wall Street just isn't the right thing to look at. Or they are reporting the wrong things, which distorts what is actually going on. Again, getting bad information from Wall Street.

If I'm basing getting some kind of tax advantage using that data as a way to increase value, yea- there's more argument to lot allow traders to get some kind of tax break vs. regular income for the rest of us.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!

I'm gonna lose my $5 this week.

I have a standing $5 bet through October that the best politician / political gaffe of the week will always be Trump.

Well, not this week:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-08-18-04-58-22

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!

This Sums Up The Drumpf Campaign Perfectly

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!

This Sums Up The Drumpf Campaign Perfectly

The first 26 seconds of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=31&v=s77RI-rq528

is the greatest 26 seconds I've ever seen on any Cable News show ever. It's fantastic. I weep that Jon Stewart isn't here to comment on it.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!

Ok. But the intention of the reporting is 1) revenue, and 2) the cost to produce that revenue product. How one can conclude they are not related- I suppose you can.

If not, then it just adds to my point that Wall Street just isn't the right thing to look at. Or they are reporting the wrong things, which distorts what is actually going on. Again, getting bad information from Wall Street.

If I'm basing getting some kind of tax advantage using that data as a way to increase value, yea- there's more argument to lot allow traders to get some kind of tax break vs. regular income for the rest of us.

Sorry, but you're kind of losing me here.


So we're clear, and while keeping to simple terms, revenue is how much you get, which is obviously based on price. Price in this sense meaning at what $ amount a given sales transaction takes place. Cost is just what it sounds like which is how much $ was spent in production, marketing, advertising, brokering, etc. to have something and sell it. Revenue (price) minus cost equals profit.

Now it maybe counter intuitive to some but there is no relationship between cost and price. Price is determined entirely by what someone (the market) will willingly pay for your product. How much you paid to produce your product is totally irrelevant. You may very well have paid more to make it then the market will pay to buy it.

For example, you give burd and myself each $20 worth of art supplies and $30 for an hour's labor to produce a painting. You then take the paintings to an auction and sell them hoping to get $100 each for them. burd's painting sells for $25 (to burd). My painting hits the block and it turns out (unsurprisingly) that people think I'm some sort of genius prodigy, a huge bidding war breaks out and it sells for $200,000. If I could do math I'd tell you exactly how much, but generally, you lost money on burd, and naturally, made out like a superstar on me. Price(revenue) was vastly different according to what the market demanded, but your cost was $50 in both transactions, and there's no relationship between the two things.

I'm not following you about how varying profit margins across different businesses are a problem, a distortion, or bad information, or really what you're getting at there?