USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!
- Thread starter Kepler
- Start date
- Status
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!
Not me. Because I don't give a **** who Alexander Butterfield was or is.
Who will be the 2016 equivalent of Alexander Butterfield?
(how many of you had to google him?)
Not me. Because I don't give a **** who Alexander Butterfield was or is.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!
Having googled it, it's too rare of an event for anyone to be the 2016 equivalent. It's about as common as the moon landings. Big deal in the late 60's/early 70's and a resounding meh now.
Having googled it, it's too rare of an event for anyone to be the 2016 equivalent. It's about as common as the moon landings. Big deal in the late 60's/early 70's and a resounding meh now.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!
It Gets Better
"According to a report from NBC News, from 2007 to 2015, Mylan CEO Heather Bresch’s salary went from $2,453,456 to $18,931,068, a 671 percent increase.
During that same period, Mylan raised EpiPen prices from $56.64 to $317.82, a 461 percent increase."
But I am sure we will hear all those free market lovers defend this ****.
It Gets Better
"According to a report from NBC News, from 2007 to 2015, Mylan CEO Heather Bresch’s salary went from $2,453,456 to $18,931,068, a 671 percent increase.
During that same period, Mylan raised EpiPen prices from $56.64 to $317.82, a 461 percent increase."
But I am sure we will hear all those free market lovers defend this ****.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!
For legit medical things, the rules should be a bit different (if there's a better phrasing, let 'er rip). This is serious bullsh*. For free market, sure that tank top you really really want....hey charge $300 for it. If someone wants to pay that, go for it. Stuff like Epi-pens? No. Not cool, if it can be lower-priced.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!
Inspite of the risk of getting raged at...
Epi Pens scenario are occurring because they lack free markets...not because of them. Price competition from $50 generics would not allow this to occur.
United Healthcare made $11B in income last year. Other insurance companies the same. And they don't actually deliver health care themselves. Now that's a pretty good business to be in. And they hate the Obamacare markets. Why? Because they bring competition and free markets. So Epi Pens is just doing what its allowed to do. Not sure if I would, but many people would take a big pile of money if its sitting on the table. Blame for and any solution rests with the system that's broken and a lack of free markets that allow them to get away with it rather than Epi Pens and UHG CEOs.
Inspite of the risk of getting raged at...
Epi Pens scenario are occurring because they lack free markets...not because of them. Price competition from $50 generics would not allow this to occur.
United Healthcare made $11B in income last year. Other insurance companies the same. And they don't actually deliver health care themselves. Now that's a pretty good business to be in. And they hate the Obamacare markets. Why? Because they bring competition and free markets. So Epi Pens is just doing what its allowed to do. Not sure if I would, but many people would take a big pile of money if its sitting on the table. Blame for and any solution rests with the system that's broken and a lack of free markets that allow them to get away with it rather than Epi Pens and UHG CEOs.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!
So the Trump campaign uses campaign donations to buy copies of his book?
His campaign has to be the biggest grift in the history of politics. I also read that he tripled the rent his campaign is paying to Trump Tower now that more donations are rolling in.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...o-buy-55-000-of-his-own-book.html?via=desktop
So the Trump campaign uses campaign donations to buy copies of his book?
His campaign has to be the biggest grift in the history of politics. I also read that he tripled the rent his campaign is paying to Trump Tower now that more donations are rolling in.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...o-buy-55-000-of-his-own-book.html?via=desktop
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!
He's a dishonest con artist, no doubt, but there appear to be some legitimate explanations why rent went up so much.
So the Trump campaign uses campaign donations to buy copies of his book?
His campaign has to be the biggest grift in the history of politics. I also read that he tripled the rent his campaign is paying to Trump Tower now that more donations are rolling in.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...o-buy-55-000-of-his-own-book.html?via=desktop
He's a dishonest con artist, no doubt, but there appear to be some legitimate explanations why rent went up so much.
Wisko McBadgerton
Teaching you how to Bucky.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!
In '92, Bill's "Third Way" was much closer to guys like Kasich or Jeb! on economic policy. Here's the 1992 Platform. Interesting that some of the preamble echoes a portion of the current right, with an appeal to an angry middle class and, of course, returning America to economic Greatness! It proposes a pro growth, fiscally responsible policy that is also tough on crime while remaining socially to the left. (I also note that it's a couple of pages and easy to get the gist, in contrast to today's party platforms that run 50+ pages at a time in history when this post itself is so lengthy that it probably necessitates a TL;DR)
The 2016 Democratic Platform has been pushed a good ways to the left of President Obama by Bernie, so if Mrs. Clinton pursues it aggressively (something the far left is pretty doubtful about) I guess one could best characterize it as "Hillary I". It's probably "Obama III" if R's retain congress, as they are likely to just call a recess until mid-terms. It's "Bill III" maybe in the one sense that it seems the President would likely be the subject of one or more Federal investigations.
That said, platforms seem fairly secondary in this election, thus far.
In '92, Bill's "Third Way" was much closer to guys like Kasich or Jeb! on economic policy. Here's the 1992 Platform. Interesting that some of the preamble echoes a portion of the current right, with an appeal to an angry middle class and, of course, returning America to economic Greatness! It proposes a pro growth, fiscally responsible policy that is also tough on crime while remaining socially to the left. (I also note that it's a couple of pages and easy to get the gist, in contrast to today's party platforms that run 50+ pages at a time in history when this post itself is so lengthy that it probably necessitates a TL;DR)
The 2016 Democratic Platform has been pushed a good ways to the left of President Obama by Bernie, so if Mrs. Clinton pursues it aggressively (something the far left is pretty doubtful about) I guess one could best characterize it as "Hillary I". It's probably "Obama III" if R's retain congress, as they are likely to just call a recess until mid-terms. It's "Bill III" maybe in the one sense that it seems the President would likely be the subject of one or more Federal investigations.
That said, platforms seem fairly secondary in this election, thus far.
Last edited:
Wisko McBadgerton
Teaching you how to Bucky.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!
I agree that with regulation and a large barrier to entry you don't have a free market. And obviously pharmaceuticals and health care requires regulation so it's a problem that hasn't been solved at all within current policy.
How much large insurers and large providers hate the ACA... well I'm not sure about that. The group of largest insurers and largest providers have outperformed the (recovering) S&P by 200% to 500% since the ACA. It's not everything but it certainly is an indicator to me that a system that was supposed to drive down costs seems to have still been generating an awful lot of profits for the largest companies operating within it.
I agree that with regulation and a large barrier to entry you don't have a free market. And obviously pharmaceuticals and health care requires regulation so it's a problem that hasn't been solved at all within current policy.
How much large insurers and large providers hate the ACA... well I'm not sure about that. The group of largest insurers and largest providers have outperformed the (recovering) S&P by 200% to 500% since the ACA. It's not everything but it certainly is an indicator to me that a system that was supposed to drive down costs seems to have still been generating an awful lot of profits for the largest companies operating within it.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!
To Sanders' credit, I think he helped Hillary choose whether we were dealing with Clinton's 3rd term or Obama's 3rd term as she seemed really unfocused on that. In time she or her campaign realized 1992 didn't have a lot of resonance with core Dem voters particularly younger ones who wanted to keep moving left, so she went all in on Obama 3. Nostalgia sells well with the right because depending on their age they all either wish it was still 1980 or 1950. Libs tend to be a younger crowd, so not too many want to relive the 60's which the 50 and under crowd has zero recollection of.
Regarding tax policy, simply put nothing will get done without a Dem House. As about 30 Goopers sit in Dem districts (on a Presidential level) and that's the size of their majority, it is almost entirely within the power of Dem leaning voters to get back to parity in the House if they vote a straight line ticket.
For Wall St. regulation its absurd to think Hillary won't move left on this. Simply for political calculations, its an easy win. You don't need new laws just changing existing regulations which she or her appointees can do. The biggest obstacle for the Dems isn't Hillary, its Chuck Schumer. Using existing levers she can easily work around him and keep the Elizabeth Warrens and Sandernistas happy.
Hillary's biggest impact assuming divided govt will be with the budget. Bill Clinton ate the GOP for lunch. Obama was way too deferential to The Boner and it took him 6 years to figure out he was getting jerked around. I'm skeptical Hillary will give it that long and her negotiating skills will be very interesting to watch.
To Sanders' credit, I think he helped Hillary choose whether we were dealing with Clinton's 3rd term or Obama's 3rd term as she seemed really unfocused on that. In time she or her campaign realized 1992 didn't have a lot of resonance with core Dem voters particularly younger ones who wanted to keep moving left, so she went all in on Obama 3. Nostalgia sells well with the right because depending on their age they all either wish it was still 1980 or 1950. Libs tend to be a younger crowd, so not too many want to relive the 60's which the 50 and under crowd has zero recollection of.
Regarding tax policy, simply put nothing will get done without a Dem House. As about 30 Goopers sit in Dem districts (on a Presidential level) and that's the size of their majority, it is almost entirely within the power of Dem leaning voters to get back to parity in the House if they vote a straight line ticket.
For Wall St. regulation its absurd to think Hillary won't move left on this. Simply for political calculations, its an easy win. You don't need new laws just changing existing regulations which she or her appointees can do. The biggest obstacle for the Dems isn't Hillary, its Chuck Schumer. Using existing levers she can easily work around him and keep the Elizabeth Warrens and Sandernistas happy.
Hillary's biggest impact assuming divided govt will be with the budget. Bill Clinton ate the GOP for lunch. Obama was way too deferential to The Boner and it took him 6 years to figure out he was getting jerked around. I'm skeptical Hillary will give it that long and her negotiating skills will be very interesting to watch.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!
First, the ACA did not bring free markets to the healthcare industry. Quit distorting that term, it makes you look wholly ignorant when you're trying to impress people.
Second, health insurance rates are tightly governed by the states. It's a regulated market with large entry barriers established long ago. (I can't setup a St. Clown Health Insurance Co. and start selling my plans without a great deal of haggling with the state beforehand.) In many states, including MN, an insurance company has to submit to the state's commerce department - there's a group within insurance whose whole job it is to approve and monitor insurance companies' pricing strategies and force them to justify their planned rates. So all of these profits they earn, those profits you and so many others bemoan, aren't just legally permissible, they're almost granted to the companies by the states. And it's been that way for decades. The states have established healthcare oligopolies. The ACA only made side-by-side comparisons easier when price-shopping the various plans offered within that state exchanges.
First, the ACA did not bring free markets to the healthcare industry. Quit distorting that term, it makes you look wholly ignorant when you're trying to impress people.
Second, health insurance rates are tightly governed by the states. It's a regulated market with large entry barriers established long ago. (I can't setup a St. Clown Health Insurance Co. and start selling my plans without a great deal of haggling with the state beforehand.) In many states, including MN, an insurance company has to submit to the state's commerce department - there's a group within insurance whose whole job it is to approve and monitor insurance companies' pricing strategies and force them to justify their planned rates. So all of these profits they earn, those profits you and so many others bemoan, aren't just legally permissible, they're almost granted to the companies by the states. And it's been that way for decades. The states have established healthcare oligopolies. The ACA only made side-by-side comparisons easier when price-shopping the various plans offered within that state exchanges.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!
Please share whatever you're taking with the class.
Please share whatever you're taking with the class.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!
Julie Mason of all people made a great observation on her POTUS show yesterday (I like Julie, but her show is not exactly chock full of policy depth -- it's more a circle jerk for insiders she knows). If the Republicans hold the Senate, the chair of the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs (the committee that reports out financial regulation legilsation) will be free market looney tune Mike Crapo. If the Democrats take the Senate, it will be "off with their heads" Sherrod Brown. That is a YUGE difference.
Julie Mason of all people made a great observation on her POTUS show yesterday (I like Julie, but her show is not exactly chock full of policy depth -- it's more a circle jerk for insiders she knows). If the Republicans hold the Senate, the chair of the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs (the committee that reports out financial regulation legilsation) will be free market looney tune Mike Crapo. If the Democrats take the Senate, it will be "off with their heads" Sherrod Brown. That is a YUGE difference.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!
All, there are two sides to this post.
The first part suggesting the market for products like the Epi Pen isn't a free market- which is correct that there is protection form generics. And then the ACA part.
Don't lose the part that for some very important medications that help people stay alive- the market isn't free. And the opinion that it should not be a major money maker vs. a nominal one given what it does is a good argument to have. Much like- should the part of the healtcare system that just, for the lack of a better term, launders your money, make a significant profit on that?
If you come up with a method to let the aging population make more and more whoope- that's one thing.
If you come up with a method to solve some serious health issues- that's another.
Whether the ACA is effective legislation isn't related to either of those discussions.
All, there are two sides to this post.
The first part suggesting the market for products like the Epi Pen isn't a free market- which is correct that there is protection form generics. And then the ACA part.
Don't lose the part that for some very important medications that help people stay alive- the market isn't free. And the opinion that it should not be a major money maker vs. a nominal one given what it does is a good argument to have. Much like- should the part of the healtcare system that just, for the lack of a better term, launders your money, make a significant profit on that?
If you come up with a method to let the aging population make more and more whoope- that's one thing.
If you come up with a method to solve some serious health issues- that's another.
Whether the ACA is effective legislation isn't related to either of those discussions.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!
On a side note- it's really odd to me to see his name. I went to HS with his niece, and his family still lives within a mile of my parents. As evil as I want to portray Republicans, just knowing who he is, and that he lives in a pretty modest house makes it hard.
On a side note- it's really odd to me to see his name. I went to HS with his niece, and his family still lives within a mile of my parents. As evil as I want to portray Republicans, just knowing who he is, and that he lives in a pretty modest house makes it hard.
Last edited:
Wisko McBadgerton
Teaching you how to Bucky.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!
This always reminds me of Illinois car dealers who quite sometime ago started to add a line to purchase contracts called "dealer fees". It was charged that, while it may be true that dealers do incur some expenses in a transaction, this was largely a made up way to increase profits (it was) and the fees were at the very least, exorbitant.
Dealers then (obviously acting against their own profit interests) had a bill introduced that placed a cap on fees they could legally charge in this manner at (for example) $600, even though most were charging less or none at all. But when it passed, pretty much all Dealers started charging $600 and used the very existence of the law as proof the fees weren't made up, and in fact justified and authorized by the State legislature. In other words, they sold "no more than $600" as "$600 is the necessary and proper amount" to customers based on law. Not surprisingly, in the following years neighboring states' dealer associations followed suit.
This always reminds me of Illinois car dealers who quite sometime ago started to add a line to purchase contracts called "dealer fees". It was charged that, while it may be true that dealers do incur some expenses in a transaction, this was largely a made up way to increase profits (it was) and the fees were at the very least, exorbitant.
Dealers then (obviously acting against their own profit interests) had a bill introduced that placed a cap on fees they could legally charge in this manner at (for example) $600, even though most were charging less or none at all. But when it passed, pretty much all Dealers started charging $600 and used the very existence of the law as proof the fees weren't made up, and in fact justified and authorized by the State legislature. In other words, they sold "no more than $600" as "$600 is the necessary and proper amount" to customers based on law. Not surprisingly, in the following years neighboring states' dealer associations followed suit.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVI: KICK THE BABY!
You know who else lived in a modest house...
On a side note- it's really odd to me to see his name. I went to HS with his niece, and his family still lives within a mile of my parents. As evil as I want to portray Republicans, just knowing who he is, and that he lives in a pretty modest house makes it hard.
You know who else lived in a modest house...
- Status