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Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
- Thread starter joecct
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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
So based on what I'm reading, her supposed failings of Benghazi is really pretty much the main relevant issue (i.e., as have been created by media on the right) and it doesn't matter whether outcomes like this are typical for a US SOS. And although she might in totality be the best SOS in the history of the country, it doesn't matter because we are not to compare her broader record with any past politician as they are not running.
In other news, surgeons are guilty of murder.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
So based on what I'm reading, her supposed failings of Benghazi is really pretty much the main relevant issue (i.e., as have been created by media on the right) and it doesn't matter whether outcomes like this are typical for a US SOS. And although she might in totality be the best SOS in the history of the country, it doesn't matter because we are not to compare her broader record with any past politician as they are not running.
In other news, surgeons are guilty of murder.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Have you read about the others that have died similarly under other Secretary's of State. 4 is nothing.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
It would be interesting to hear who you think is the better alternative to Clinton, based on these objections. And the idea that you think she is such a liar.
For the main party other guy- he has no experience what so ever in government, so how can you make a comparison to Libya or her team's work on getting Bin Laden? There's no real way to make any judgement.
And for the lies- the number of impossible ideas tD has put up is staggering- but the two leading ones about banning a specific religion from entering and having a country spend it's own money to keep their people out of our country are ones that should give anyone an idea the level of realism and lies that the other leading candidate is putting out.
Now if you are suggesting a different candidate- it would be interesting to hear their suggestions.
But to pretend that Hillary Clinton is less qualified than Trump seems to be a stretch based on character.
On the other hand- if her policies are that much against yours, and you agree more with Trump- you are welcome to try to convince others that it's the right way to go.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
It would be interesting to hear who you think is the better alternative to Clinton, based on these objections. And the idea that you think she is such a liar.
For the main party other guy- he has no experience what so ever in government, so how can you make a comparison to Libya or her team's work on getting Bin Laden? There's no real way to make any judgement.
And for the lies- the number of impossible ideas tD has put up is staggering- but the two leading ones about banning a specific religion from entering and having a country spend it's own money to keep their people out of our country are ones that should give anyone an idea the level of realism and lies that the other leading candidate is putting out.
Now if you are suggesting a different candidate- it would be interesting to hear their suggestions.
But to pretend that Hillary Clinton is less qualified than Trump seems to be a stretch based on character.
On the other hand- if her policies are that much against yours, and you agree more with Trump- you are welcome to try to convince others that it's the right way to go.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Ah so now everything that happened previous to this year doesnt matter at all? Man that is convenient...I bet that wont matter when it comes to using Bill Clinton against Hillary...I mean he isnt running for POTUS45 either.
As for the rest of your post...you must really hate almost every SecState since the 1930s...
Let me guess, next you are going to try and rip Michelle Obama cause the slaves that built the White House were well fed and had decent lodging? You have been stealing all their other bits might as well keep up that perfect game joe!
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Ah so now everything that happened previous to this year doesnt matter at all? Man that is convenient...I bet that wont matter when it comes to using Bill Clinton against Hillary...I mean he isnt running for POTUS45 either.
As for the rest of your post...you must really hate almost every SecState since the 1930s...
Let me guess, next you are going to try and rip Michelle Obama cause the slaves that built the White House were well fed and had decent lodging? You have been stealing all their other bits might as well keep up that perfect game joe!
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
You may be dead accurate, joe, but did the Benghazi investigation conclude that she should have or could have taken steps than night/day that would have prevented the deaths? They certainly spent enough time and money searching for such a conclusion.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
You may be dead accurate, joe, but did the Benghazi investigation conclude that she should have or could have taken steps than night/day that would have prevented the deaths? They certainly spent enough time and money searching for such a conclusion.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Money is no object unless it is wasted on someone he likes.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Money is no object unless it is wasted on someone he likes.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
I could be wrong, but I do not get the impression that joecct is voting for Trump.
In fact I don't know if there is a single regular poster on the cafe planning to vote for Trump. They are anti-Hillary but they seem to be either 'Johnson Curious' or 'Sit This Stinker Out,' both of which I get.
It's not that hard to imagine Trump running as a Democrat (after all, he is about Trump and nothing else, and he was a Democrat for his whole life right up until he got the idea to start running these campaigns to sell his books). If this election had been Trump (D) v Jeb! (R), I would have either voted Libertarian, Green or sat it out. So I completely understand where conservatives are coming from. Their criticism of Hillary may be either right or wrong on the merits, but in neither instance does it signal they intend to vote for the Apricot Authoritarian.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
I could be wrong, but I do not get the impression that joecct is voting for Trump.
In fact I don't know if there is a single regular poster on the cafe planning to vote for Trump. They are anti-Hillary but they seem to be either 'Johnson Curious' or 'Sit This Stinker Out,' both of which I get.
It's not that hard to imagine Trump running as a Democrat (after all, he is about Trump and nothing else, and he was a Democrat for his whole life right up until he got the idea to start running these campaigns to sell his books). If this election had been Trump (D) v Jeb! (R), I would have either voted Libertarian, Green or sat it out. So I completely understand where conservatives are coming from. Their criticism of Hillary may be either right or wrong on the merits, but in neither instance does it signal they intend to vote for the Apricot Authoritarian.
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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
He says he isn't, but I believe his hatred of Hillary is so great that he will vote for Trump as a 'lesser of two evils' and will be afraid to 'throw away his vote' by going 3rd party. He's just too embarrassed to admit it I guess.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
He says he isn't, but I believe his hatred of Hillary is so great that he will vote for Trump as a 'lesser of two evils' and will be afraid to 'throw away his vote' by going 3rd party. He's just too embarrassed to admit it I guess.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
It looks like the cognitive dissonance associated with voting for Trump is so great that people cannot confirm their bias without being very intense about it, whatever the rationale. Even using false logic, people do not seem to be able to support him with any kind of measured objectivity. Maybe that is partly due to his use of anger and fear to manipulate voters.
I ran across this quote from Marshall McLuhan's Gutenberg Galaxy last night:
Instead of tending towards a vast Alexandrian library the world has become a computer, an electronic brain, exactly as an infantile piece of science fiction. And as our senses have gone outside us, Big Brother goes inside. So, unless aware of this dynamic, we shall at once move into a phase of panic terrors, exactly befitting a small world of tribal drums, total interdependence, and superimposed co-existence. [...] Terror is the normal state of any oral society, for in it everything affects everything all the time. [...] In our long striving to recover for the Western world a unity of sensibility and of thought and feeling we have no more been prepared to accept the tribal consequences of such unity than we were ready for the fragmentation of the human psyche by print culture.
I'm not a McLuhen expert, and I know his ideas have been heavily criticized since they were so popular in the 60s and early 70s, but its rather remarkable that he wrote those words in the early sixties, and I found them interesting in the context of our modern political environment.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
It looks like the cognitive dissonance associated with voting for Trump is so great that people cannot confirm their bias without being very intense about it, whatever the rationale. Even using false logic, people do not seem to be able to support him with any kind of measured objectivity. Maybe that is partly due to his use of anger and fear to manipulate voters.
I ran across this quote from Marshall McLuhan's Gutenberg Galaxy last night:
Instead of tending towards a vast Alexandrian library the world has become a computer, an electronic brain, exactly as an infantile piece of science fiction. And as our senses have gone outside us, Big Brother goes inside. So, unless aware of this dynamic, we shall at once move into a phase of panic terrors, exactly befitting a small world of tribal drums, total interdependence, and superimposed co-existence. [...] Terror is the normal state of any oral society, for in it everything affects everything all the time. [...] In our long striving to recover for the Western world a unity of sensibility and of thought and feeling we have no more been prepared to accept the tribal consequences of such unity than we were ready for the fragmentation of the human psyche by print culture.
I'm not a McLuhen expert, and I know his ideas have been heavily criticized since they were so popular in the 60s and early 70s, but its rather remarkable that he wrote those words in the early sixties, and I found them interesting in the context of our modern political environment.
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ericredaxe
Veteran
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
So who is everyone voting for? I'm sure we have a pretty good idea on who will vote for who anyway.
Unless something changes my mind, I will vote for Johnson/Weld.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
So who is everyone voting for? I'm sure we have a pretty good idea on who will vote for who anyway.
Unless something changes my mind, I will vote for Johnson/Weld.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Hillary. I don't have a death wish.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
I'll make this a poll.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
I'll make this a poll.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Yes! Soon the campaigns will be citing it and building their strategies around it.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Yes! Soon the campaigns will be citing it and building their strategies around it.
There you go again...
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
July USCHO Poll, for the critical overweight elderly white male alcoholic alone always alone college hockey fan electorate.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
July USCHO Poll, for the critical overweight elderly white male alcoholic alone always alone college hockey fan electorate.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
But I'm not going to do it. That's how I sleep at night.
And actually, I win. Because whichever candidate of these two ends up winning, there will be an endless stream of nonsense that's going to result. And I get to say "I told you so."
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
I think your analogy is a lot better than Brent's. However, even using your analogy, I'm not voting for either. I can help decide??? No, I'm not going to participate in that decision. You guys want to put one of these two in the WH, so be it. I recognize its going to happen because there are way more people who are going to vote for major party candidates than any third party candidate.
But I'm not going to do it. That's how I sleep at night.
And actually, I win. Because whichever candidate of these two ends up winning, there will be an endless stream of nonsense that's going to result. And I get to say "I told you so."
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Actually, you don't. If you pick one then you win if the other one wins, because then you can say "I voted against him/her." But by not voting you're giving up any chance to have helped, so you don't get to say squat.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Actually, you don't. If you pick one then you win if the other one wins, because then you can say "I voted against him/her." But by not voting you're giving up any chance to have helped, so you don't get to say squat.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
The question is, what catastrophe will you be saying "I told you so" about? Are all harms the same in that they all give you that opportunity?
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
The question is, what catastrophe will you be saying "I told you so" about? Are all harms the same in that they all give you that opportunity?
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
ditto
I'm not only voting for Hillary, but I'm voting for the Democratic platform -- which Bernie has been able to influence. All the Bernie or Bust people need to realize that it's a process and Bernie has pushed the conversation much farther to the left and I'm grateful that he ran on these issues. They can do a lot more good by trying to influence the Democratic party rather than abandoning it when they didn't get their way.
It comes down to which candidate (and which party) I trust to make court appointments, fill cabinet positions, etc. Gary Johnson would be far far FAR preferable to Trump but 1) he isn't going to win, and 2) I disagree with him deeply on several important issues.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XV: Before & After: Dancing in the Streets of Philadelphia!
ditto
I'm not only voting for Hillary, but I'm voting for the Democratic platform -- which Bernie has been able to influence. All the Bernie or Bust people need to realize that it's a process and Bernie has pushed the conversation much farther to the left and I'm grateful that he ran on these issues. They can do a lot more good by trying to influence the Democratic party rather than abandoning it when they didn't get their way.
It comes down to which candidate (and which party) I trust to make court appointments, fill cabinet positions, etc. Gary Johnson would be far far FAR preferable to Trump but 1) he isn't going to win, and 2) I disagree with him deeply on several important issues.
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