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Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?
- Thread starter ExileOnDaytonStreet
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Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?
You know nothing, Jon Snow.
You know nothing, Jon Snow.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?
Oh, I hope so. I hope they all go Trump. Then the USA will finally get the leader it deserves.
Oh, I hope so. I hope they all go Trump. Then the USA will finally get the leader it deserves.
St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?
I didn't mean that they're all hipsters, rather just a goodly sized chunk of his bloc.
I didn't mean that they're all hipsters, rather just a goodly sized chunk of his bloc.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?
I have a hardcore hunter co-worker who is big into knapping (look it up -- it's actually really interesting). He has told me that if Sanders beats Hillary he'll vote for Sanders, but if not he'll vote for Trump. So there is some intersection in their Venn diagram. From other things he has said and knowing him generally it isn't policy, it's affect. They are both giving the middle finger to The Establishment, and one thing this year is teaching poli sci folks is that Americans care more about style than substance. Why they needed a second lesson after Reagan is anybody's guess.
You reap what you sow, and for fifty years our entertainment sowed images of vigilantes and "heroes" who used violence to solve every problem. We have a public who believes in that garbage now, and who views thinking and restraint as weak or even dangerous. I don't think we have a public of haters or racists, but a public of impatient, frustrated, querulous, unreflective adolescents who never grew up.
I have a hardcore hunter co-worker who is big into knapping (look it up -- it's actually really interesting). He has told me that if Sanders beats Hillary he'll vote for Sanders, but if not he'll vote for Trump. So there is some intersection in their Venn diagram. From other things he has said and knowing him generally it isn't policy, it's affect. They are both giving the middle finger to The Establishment, and one thing this year is teaching poli sci folks is that Americans care more about style than substance. Why they needed a second lesson after Reagan is anybody's guess.
You reap what you sow, and for fifty years our entertainment sowed images of vigilantes and "heroes" who used violence to solve every problem. We have a public who believes in that garbage now, and who views thinking and restraint as weak or even dangerous. I don't think we have a public of haters or racists, but a public of impatient, frustrated, querulous, unreflective adolescents who never grew up.
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Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?
They're certainly a good size chunk of the public perception, recycled constantly by media looking to support that narrative.
Neither of us has any idea whether they're 9% or 90% of his supporters.
They're certainly a good size chunk of the public perception, recycled constantly by media looking to support that narrative.
Neither of us has any idea whether they're 9% or 90% of his supporters.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?
Soooo....they're going to vote against a perceived corporate sell out shill by voting for.....a corporate sell out shill who uses bankruptcy laws to erase all his debts? Huh.
Soooo....they're going to vote against a perceived corporate sell out shill by voting for.....a corporate sell out shill who uses bankruptcy laws to erase all his debts? Huh.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?
I have a lot of friends who are rock solid citizens, financially secure, and engaged thinkers who have been Sanders supporters. They will also readily support Hillary in the general. In fact, I know of no Sanders supporters who would qualify as what you would call "petulant hipsters." Not that they don't exist, possibly in numbers, but I haven't bumped up against any.
I have a lot of friends who are rock solid citizens, financially secure, and engaged thinkers who have been Sanders supporters. They will also readily support Hillary in the general. In fact, I know of no Sanders supporters who would qualify as what you would call "petulant hipsters." Not that they don't exist, possibly in numbers, but I haven't bumped up against any.
St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?
Out of spite, I could see the young ones going for the politician who's honest about his Wall Street connections than the one who's trying to play down or hide hers. I have nieces and nephews in that age group, and they do a great many things that just don't make sense in order to claim a "principled" point. Like many kids voting in their first or second elections, they're myopic.
Out of spite, I could see the young ones going for the politician who's honest about his Wall Street connections than the one who's trying to play down or hide hers. I have nieces and nephews in that age group, and they do a great many things that just don't make sense in order to claim a "principled" point. Like many kids voting in their first or second elections, they're myopic.
Spartanforlife4
Generic Catchy Message
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?
On the Bernie subreddit, the ground zero of his hipster base, there is a very small minority that say they will vote for Trump. Most seem to be deciding between settling for Hillary, not voting, or going with Jill Stein.
On the Bernie subreddit, the ground zero of his hipster base, there is a very small minority that say they will vote for Trump. Most seem to be deciding between settling for Hillary, not voting, or going with Jill Stein.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?
Nor have I, and I do a good amount of traveling in those circles, in person and virtually.
I have seen nastygram comments left on political sites by people claiming to be Bernie supporters, but (1) I've also seen these representatives of every other candidates except Jim Gilmore, and (2) who knows if those are real anyway?
Nor have I, and I do a good amount of traveling in those circles, in person and virtually.
I have seen nastygram comments left on political sites by people claiming to be Bernie supporters, but (1) I've also seen these representatives of every other candidates except Jim Gilmore, and (2) who knows if those are real anyway?
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?
Like a lot of myths and stupidity that's to come leading up to the election, the hypothetical Sanders-Trump voter might end up being the biggest unicorn out there. The only people doing so will be those who were always Trump supporters, but who voted Bernie in open primaries to try and ratfuk the Dem race. Such people are few and far between. Young people aren't stupid. Maybe if you had a more generic Gooper more would climb aboard but Trump?!? Good luck with that.
Like a lot of myths and stupidity that's to come leading up to the election, the hypothetical Sanders-Trump voter might end up being the biggest unicorn out there. The only people doing so will be those who were always Trump supporters, but who voted Bernie in open primaries to try and ratfuk the Dem race. Such people are few and far between. Young people aren't stupid. Maybe if you had a more generic Gooper more would climb aboard but Trump?!? Good luck with that.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?
You are giving them way too much credit.
You are giving them way too much credit.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?
Young people are no stupider or smarter than anyone else. They're probably more ignorant than older people just for the simple bliss of not having been around to gather mind lint for as long. But the razor blade of life will provide.
Speaking of myths...
Young people are no stupider or smarter than anyone else. They're probably more ignorant than older people just for the simple bliss of not having been around to gather mind lint for as long. But the razor blade of life will provide.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?
The older I get, the more I think the voting age should be raised. The 18-year-old me could have never truly appreciated the consequences of voting for the city dog catcher much less the presidency.
The older I get, the more I think the voting age should be raised. The 18-year-old me could have never truly appreciated the consequences of voting for the city dog catcher much less the presidency.
unofan
Well-known member
The older I get, the more I think the voting age should be raised. The 18-year-old me could have never truly appreciated the consequences of voting for the city dog catcher much less the presidency.
I generally agree, but that said, so long as the draft age is 18, I'm fine with voting rights staying there. If you can be forced to die for your country, you deserve the right to vote.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?
A nice little "everything you know is wrong" piece re: the political realignment.
A nice little "everything you know is wrong" piece re: the political realignment.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?
It's a registration age, but with modern militaries not requiring mass conscription registration will also go the way of the draft, and good riddance to it.
It is an irony that the generations which have grown up since the voting age was lowered have also been generation of prolonged childhood, just due to luck of the draw. But there is no good reason to raise the voting age back up. If you are old enough to sign a legally binding contract you are old enough to vote.
It's a registration age, but with modern militaries not requiring mass conscription registration will also go the way of the draft, and good riddance to it.
It is an irony that the generations which have grown up since the voting age was lowered have also been generation of prolonged childhood, just due to luck of the draw. But there is no good reason to raise the voting age back up. If you are old enough to sign a legally binding contract you are old enough to vote.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?
God forbid but if any positives can be drawn from Trump's insane candidacy and capture of the GOP nomination, its these:
1) Iraq war was a bad idea and Bush's fault. Few things are more dangerous than the neo-conartist interpretation of Iraq, which is the war was all but won had we not, you know, asked the Iraqis to defend their own country for a change once Obama got into office. Even Mittens was pimping the war as a swell idea almost a decade after it was exposed as a failure during his 2012 campaign. Let this one die once and for all.
2) Ayn Randian budget policies are a disaster. Post Trump I'd be surprised to see anybody openly run on a "lets cut social security so we can give more tax cuts to the rich" platform. Paul Ryan is going to be on an island with only a few think tank dead-enders on this one.
3) All free trade pacts are great! now discredited. Trump has to share this one with Bernie, but a greater emphasis on whether losing American manufacturing jobs is worth 10 cents cheaper products at Mao Mart is now part of the discussion.
God forbid but if any positives can be drawn from Trump's insane candidacy and capture of the GOP nomination, its these:
1) Iraq war was a bad idea and Bush's fault. Few things are more dangerous than the neo-conartist interpretation of Iraq, which is the war was all but won had we not, you know, asked the Iraqis to defend their own country for a change once Obama got into office. Even Mittens was pimping the war as a swell idea almost a decade after it was exposed as a failure during his 2012 campaign. Let this one die once and for all.
2) Ayn Randian budget policies are a disaster. Post Trump I'd be surprised to see anybody openly run on a "lets cut social security so we can give more tax cuts to the rich" platform. Paul Ryan is going to be on an island with only a few think tank dead-enders on this one.
3) All free trade pacts are great! now discredited. Trump has to share this one with Bernie, but a greater emphasis on whether losing American manufacturing jobs is worth 10 cents cheaper products at Mao Mart is now part of the discussion.
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