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Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?

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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?

ScoobyDoo said:
Maybe it just isn't overt. Maybe this the culmination of inevitability that the GOP has wrought.
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I just don't get this group think.

Let's assume Trump literally just did not exist. Wouldn't the nominee be somebody like Cruz? They're both equally likely to lose to Clinton, simply because of demographics. In fact, isn't Cruz closer to the Republican party line of no welfare (for others), no taxes, "family values" (no same sex marriage or abortion) and keep the immigrants out? Trump isn't even really running on those except for his "wall" nonsense.

Trump's the nominee simply because he's a better communicator than the rest of those guys. Good or bad, he has more charisma. But to suggest that the natural progression of Republicanism is from Nixon to Reagan and ultimately where we are today, producing Donald Trump is kind of silly. It actually produces Ted Cruz.

I could see this argument if Trump was running against same sex marriage, against immigration and muslims, against new taxes, against welfare, against abortion, against Obamacare, while Cruz, Kasich, and Rubio et al were more moderate. But that isn't the case at all.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?

SJHovey said:
I just don't get this group think.

Let's assume Trump literally just did not exist. Wouldn't the nominee be somebody like Cruz? They're both equally likely to lose to Clinton, simply because of demographics. In fact, isn't Cruz closer to the Republican party line of no welfare (for others), no taxes, "family values" (no same sex marriage or abortion) and keep the immigrants out? Trump isn't even really running on those except for his "wall" nonsense.

Trump's the nominee simply because he's a better communicator than the rest of those guys. Good or bad, he has more charisma. But to suggest that the natural progression of Republicanism is from Nixon to Reagan and ultimately where we are today, producing Donald Trump is kind of silly. It actually produces Ted Cruz.

I could see this argument if Trump was running against same sex marriage, against immigration and muslims, against new taxes, against welfare, against abortion, against Obamacare, while Cruz, Kasich, and Rubio et al were more moderate. But that isn't the case at all.
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This is all dead on.

But if there's a straight line plotted from Ike to Nixon to Reagan to Dubya to Trump... what does projecting that line farther even mean? Charlie Manson's up for parole before 2020, other than that I just don't know how they can top this?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?

joecct said:
How are your premiums doing? They were promised to go down, you know. Were you able to keep your own doctor? You were promised you could. Were you able to keep the same plan as you had prior to PPACA? You were promised you would.
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My premiums haven't gone up in like 8 years. My employer did this by implementing a employee health program help control costs. I have the same plan and the same doctor as I did before ACA. My employer did add a $500/yr deductible ($800 family) at one point, which you can get completely waived through an incentive program (cholesterol numbers good? take $50 off, BMI < "obese" category take $50 off, don't smoke take $50 off, blood glucose okay take $50 off, blood pressure okay take $50 off, get a physical get money off, etc, etc).

They have added other incentives too to help control costs, like preferred labs and hospitals where they cover at 100% (no copay or deductible -- even if you haven't earned enough incentive credits to cancel out the deductible) because they were able to negotiate better rates.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?

SJHovey said:
I just don't get this group think.

Let's assume Trump literally just did not exist. Wouldn't the nominee be somebody like Cruz? They're both equally likely to lose to Clinton, simply because of demographics. In fact, isn't Cruz closer to the Republican party line of no welfare (for others), no taxes, "family values" (no same sex marriage or abortion) and keep the immigrants out? Trump isn't even really running on those except for his "wall" nonsense.

Trump's the nominee simply because he's a better communicator than the rest of those guys. Good or bad, he has more charisma. But to suggest that the natural progression of Republicanism is from Nixon to Reagan and ultimately where we are today, producing Donald Trump is kind of silly. It actually produces Ted Cruz.

I could see this argument if Trump was running against same sex marriage, against immigration and muslims, against new taxes, against welfare, against abortion, against Obamacare, while Cruz, Kasich, and Rubio et al were more moderate. But that isn't the case at all.
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No, it wouldn't be Cruz. They hate Cruz. It would be Jebbers, or Rubberio. And, they'd all be pretending again like GW did. And maybe people would think Beer with them would be better than with Hillary.

And then they'd ram another war down our throats, RAM a couple of Supremes through like Alito, and do it all the while they're whining about aborted fetuses and men kissing in transgender bathrooms.

At least with Trump it's all out in the open. The racism. The giveaways to the rich. The xenophobia. The works.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?

Kepler said:
Does anybody believe Trump now when he says "I heard" or "I have the best people" or "there are revelations that"? Isn't it obvious to everyone that Trump is just making all of that up -- that there are no rumors, he had no people, there are no revelations, but that by stating them he brings them into being? Trump is the ultimate bar stool blowhard -- he "knows things" or "knows people". The other regulars roll their eyes. That's just Donald, starting his act.
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The same percentage of the racist whackjobs that won him the nomination(maybe 10-15% of the overall electorate?), plus a similar number that will believe any National Enquirer story about the Clintons because they want to believe it.

I still don't see where he's done anything to entice anyone that wasn't already in the tank for him, and that's just not a large enough group to win. The new one this week is hammering on Obama's "failed presidency". Good luck with that when his approval rating is over 50% and likely only going up as he reaches the end of his term.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?

SJHovey said:
Trump's the nominee simply because he's a better communicator than the rest of those guys. Good or bad, he has more charisma. But to suggest that the natural progression of Republicanism is from Nixon to Reagan and ultimately where we are today, producing Donald Trump is kind of silly. It actually produces Ted Cruz.

I could see this argument if Trump was running against same sex marriage, against immigration and muslims, against new taxes, against welfare, against abortion, against Obamacare, while Cruz, Kasich, and Rubio et al were more moderate. But that isn't the case at all.
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I know this will blow some minds, but on some issues, Trump and Bernie align more than Trump and the "Ike - Tricky - Reagan" lineage.
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?

Kepler said:
This is all dead on.

But if there's a straight line plotted from Ike to Nixon to Reagan to Dubya to Trump... what does projecting that line farther even mean? Charlie Manson's up for parole before 2020, other than that I just don't know how they can top this?
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FlagDUDE2020.org
 
Kepler said:
I want to believe it's performance art. 40 years ago Trump started working for this day. At the convention he'll accept the nomination, then reveal the whole plan, and drop the mic.

America's greatest living satirist.
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Has anyone ever seen Andy Kaufman and Donald Trump in the same room?

(I'm totally late to the Kaufman conspiracy table, I'd bet.)
((Speaking of conspiracies, I got one I want to start for sh**s and giggles: portable cooling stations at concerts and fairgrounds in the summer are really just miniature "chem-trail" dispensers to more efficiently spread their chemicals.))
(((Why do I get the feeling I'm late to that one too?)))



Seriously though, I believe he's going through with it because his ego is strictly driving him at this point.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?

The Sicatoka said:
I know this will blow some minds, but on some issues, Trump and Bernie align more than Trump and the "Ike - Tricky - Reagan" lineage.
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They seem aligned because they both speak to outrage. Trump speaks to outrage on immigration, and the frustration of the poor in rural segments of society who feel financially strapped because "America isn't great anymore."

Bernie speaks to outrage on the left that notwithstanding a Democrat in the White House for the last 8 years, and 16 of the last 24 years, people in large urban areas still can't afford housing, education or other needs.

Right now Trump has found success because the Dems have held the White House for eight years and social issues are trending their way, hence less outrage on the left. But we could very easily see a liberal version of Trump emerge in the future when the circumstances align. In fact, it might even be Donald Trump.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?

MaizeRage said:
The new one this week is hammering on Obama's "failed presidency". Good luck with that when his approval rating is over 50% and likely only going up as he reaches the end of his term.
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Everyone who watches Fox or listens to Hate Radio daily has been told that Obama has a "failed" presidency every day for over 2500 days. I doubt they're going to break their programming before November.

This election is going to test the hypothesis that you could put a door stop on the top of a major party ticket and it would get 45% of the vote on affiliation. The GOP did just that. This is a social science experiment.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?

SJHovey said:
I just don't get this group think.

Let's assume Trump literally just did not exist. Wouldn't the nominee be somebody like Cruz? They're both equally likely to lose to Clinton, simply because of demographics. In fact, isn't Cruz closer to the Republican party line of no welfare (for others), no taxes, "family values" (no same sex marriage or abortion) and keep the immigrants out? Trump isn't even really running on those except for his "wall" nonsense.

Trump's the nominee simply because he's a better communicator than the rest of those guys. Good or bad, he has more charisma. But to suggest that the natural progression of Republicanism is from Nixon to Reagan and ultimately where we are today, producing Donald Trump is kind of silly. It actually produces Ted Cruz.

I could see this argument if Trump was running against same sex marriage, against immigration and muslims, against new taxes, against welfare, against abortion, against Obamacare, while Cruz, Kasich, and Rubio et al were more moderate. But that isn't the case at all.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Sometimes people act like the John Kasich or Jebbers! finished a close second. Trump CRUSHED it, especially when you consider he hardly spent any money doing so. Calgary Ted would have won the nomination if Trump didn't exist, and I've got bad news for our "maybe THIS will wake up the party" friends - Cruz is Next In Line for 2020 since he's the clear runner-up this time.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?

Rover said:
Exactly. Sometimes people act like the John Kasich or Jebbers! finished a close second. Trump CRUSHED it, especially when you consider he hardly spent any money doing so. Calgary Ted would have won the nomination if Trump didn't exist, and I've got bad news for our "maybe THIS will wake up the party" friends - Cruz is Next In Line for 2020 since he's the clear runner-up this time.
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There's no "waking" up that party. There's no party. The things that they truly stand for are dying off like the Dinosaurs they are.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?

ScoobyDoo said:
There's no "waking" up that party. There's no party. The things that they truly stand for are dying off like the Dinosaurs they are.
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The party won't die. Modern major parties don't die. Just think of how different the Democrats and Republicans are from their identities 100 years ago. The wrapper will always be there -- the goo inside just shifts around.

In 50 years the Republicans might be the pro-civil rights party and the Democrats might be tub-thumping "we must build a Space Wall to keep out the Tralfamadorians and pass the 38th Amendment outlawing marriage between three women and a robot." The parties adapt -- there's too much money at stake to go outta business.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?

Rover said:
Cruz is Next In Line for 2020 since he's the clear runner-up this time.
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Nah. Cruz rises and falls with the tide of the theocons, and this was their last chance. They are quite literally dying and they are in full rout on every one of their bigoted stances.

Rubio has a future. Even ¿Yeb? has a future if he wants one (spoiler: he doesn't). But Cruz has been excreTED.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XII: What Have We Done To Deserve This?

ScoobyDoo said:
Obama has endorsed Clinton.
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:eek: Water is wet and ice is cold! :eek:

I just saw this reported as a headline on a news site. Why? Who else was he going to endorse, Ted Kennedy?
 
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