Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

[geezer]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

Now of course I'm kidding about Kep but since he joined the Sanders cult he's lost his sense of humor so I expect a few death threats from him today.

I hope the ol' boy hasn't forsworn responding to you. The fact is that your bickering is both entertaining and educational to a seeker like myself. It helps me understand where the people you both represent are coming from.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

Now of course I'm kidding about Kep but since he joined the Sanders cult he's lost his sense of humor so I expect a few death threats from him today.

Holier than thou, much?

BTW, I surrendered yesterday, which you probably didn't understand either. You're just yammering into the void now. But do what you need to to vent your demons. I'll send you some topless Bernie to whack off to.

No judgments.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

Holier than thou, much?

BTW, I surrendered yesterday, which you probably didn't understand either. You're just yammering into the void now. But do what you need to to vent your demons. I'll send you some topless Bernie to whack off to.

No judgments.

Ewwww. No. Thanks. And why do you have topless photos of Bernie at your fingertips...

Unfortunately for you and fellow Bernouts, due to your sanctimonious Sanders worship over the last few months, Hillary backers are going to make you eat sh it for a little while longer, especially if Sanders continues negative campaigning and the ridiculous proposition of taking this to the convention to try and get superdelegates (which I thought he hated) to switch their vote. I on the other hand am a magnanimous fellow, and will take your admission of defeat in stride.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

Unfortunately for you and fellow Bernouts, due to your sanctimonious Sanders worship over the last few months,

Except for the inconvenience that none of Sanders' supporters on this Forum ever did this, but sure, you carry on.

I hope Hillary isn't as thin-skinned as you because in the general the orcs are going to do a lot more than gently allude to her coziness with Wall Street. I know you were aghast that anyone had the temerity to bring up the Queen's links to the plutes, or her race-baiting references to "super predators," or her curiously elastic relationship with the truth, but this summer we are all going to have to defend not only against those charges but also the Republicans' typical buffet of dog whistles and utter lies. I hope she's readier to actually play big boy politics than you seem to be, because there won't be any Mommy DNC to run to then. DWS is not walking through that door.

By all rights, given the state of the GOP, any Democrat should win in November by double digits. Hillary should have this in the bag. Let's all hope she doesn't choke, since then real people will get more than their wittle feewies hurt.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

Except for the inconvenience that none of Sanders' supporters on this Forum ever did this, but sure, you carry on.

I hope Hillary isn't as thin-skinned as you because in the general the orcs are going to do a lot more than gently allude to her coziness with Wall Street. I know you were aghast that anyone had the temerity to bring up the Queen's links to the plutes, or her race-baiting references to "super predators," or her curiously elastic relationship with the truth, but this summer we are all going to have to defend not only against those charges but also the Republicans' typical buffet of dog whistles and utter lies. I hope she's readier to actually play big boy politics than you seem to be, because there won't be any Mommy DNC to run to then. DWS is not walking through that door.

By all rights, given the state of the GOP, any Democrat should win in November by double digits. Hillary should have this in the bag. Let's all hope she doesn't choke, since then real people will get more than their wittle feewies hurt.

Lighten up Francis. Too much anger directed toward me and not towards the 11M Democrats who voted for Hillary over Bernie. As you can already see happening (and I predicted) Hillary's camp is moving towards making their deal with Elizabeth Warren and freezing out Sanders because he's senile and unreasonable. If its a movement you want, get behind the upcoming Hillary-Warren collaboration. If its a Messiah you're looking for, keep backing the 74 year old crank with a God complex. Just beware of false prophets....

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

Lighten up Francis.

Figures you'd hate him too...

I have no doubt Hillary's people will do whatever they need to win, and one thing they need is to assure liberals that she will be center-left rather than center-right.

Hopefully they will also be coordinating with the efforts to flip the GOP's vulnerable Senate and House seats. 12 months ago I'd have thought we had a 70% chance to flip the Senate and a 10% chance to flip the House. Right now I'd say those odds have improved to 80/20.

This is an election where we can theoretically roll up very big numbers, as long as it is handled well.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

Figures you'd hate him too...

I have no doubt Hillary's people will do whatever they need to win, and one thing they need is to assure liberals that she will be center-left rather than center-right.

Hopefully they will also be coordinating with the efforts to flip the GOP's vulnerable Senate and House seats. 12 months ago I'd have thought we had a 70% chance to flip the Senate and a 10% chance to flip the House. Right now I'd say those odds have improved to 80/20.

This is an election where we can theoretically roll up very big numbers, as long as it is handled well.

I too don't want to look too far down the road. However I can't imagine at this point in time Trump or Cruz not being a tremendous drag down ballot. Trump will bring out aggrieved older white conservatives so I don't see any shocking upsets like Grassley going down for example since his base will turn out. However a guy like McCain needs to beware of a surge of Hispanic voters out for blood against anything with an (R) next to its name.

The flip side with Cruz is he has zero appeal outside the hardcore Gooper states. People like Portman are fvcked with him at the top of the ticket while they might fare better with Trump.

Regarding the House, its pretty simple. Plow lots of dollars into the GOP held but Obama won seats (27 or 28 of them or 35 if you use 2008 #'s) even if the Dem candidates in those races show up for work in a chicken costume. I'd also leverage Sanders to turn out college age voters in any districts that they can make a difference in. I can see a "Do It For Bernie" campaign to support these people formulating pretty easily!

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

I too don't want to look too far down the road. However I can't imagine at this point in time Trump or Cruz not being a tremendous drag down ballot. Trump will bring out aggrieved older white conservatives so I don't see any shocking upsets like Grassley going down for example since his base will turn out. However a guy like McCain needs to beware of a surge of Hispanic voters out for blood against anything with an (R) next to its name.

The flip side with Cruz is he has zero appeal outside the hardcore Gooper states. People like Portman are fvcked with him at the top of the ticket while they might fare better with Trump.

Regarding the House, its pretty simple. Plow lots of dollars into the GOP held but Obama won seats (27 or 28 of them or 35 if you use 2008 #'s) even if the Dem candidates in those races show up for work in a chicken costume. I'd also leverage Sanders to turn out college age voters in any districts that they can make a difference in. I can see a "Do It For Bernie" campaign to support these people formulating pretty easily!

Agreed on all counts. From what I've read, the sweethearts like the Kochs may not even bother with the presidential race this year, which means they are going to drown down ticket races with their hundreds of millions. Those guys are also very savvy that they can buy state leg seats for pennies on the dollar, which is where they start their whole hellish conveyor belt of Randian zombies. The left has grassroots organizations like ActBlue and NetRoots that are trying to fight back against the plutes, but they are at a big disadvantage. Hillary can help a lot by throwing her support behind the local Dems at every whistle stop. Bill was good about this on campaign and we can also wheel him out one last time for the old bladerunner magic.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

Agreed on all counts. From what I've read, the sweethearts like the Kochs may not even bother with the presidential race this year, which means they are going to drown down ticket races with their hundreds of millions. Those guys are also very savvy that they can buy state leg seats for pennies on the dollar, which is where they start their whole hellish conveyor belt of Randian zombies. The left has grassroots organizations like ActBlue and NetRoots that are trying to fight back against the plutes, but they are at a big disadvantage. Hillary can help a lot by throwing her support behind the local Dems at every whistle stop. Bill was good about this on campaign and we can also wheel him out one last time for the old bladerunner magic.

To that end I'd make two deals with Bernie: 1) Fire DWS which benefits everyone but who he has a particular problem with and get somebody more competent in there more to his liking. He's not going to work with her in regards to my 2nd point which is: 2) I'd send Sanders into like 10 congressional districts in states where he ran strong, such as WI or IA or even MI but there's a Gooper in a semi-competitive race and ask him to go all in to turn out young voters to vote for the D. Have him use his network for fundraising as well. IF he manages to flip several of these seats, he just earned himself a lot of chips to cash in at a later date.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

To that end I'd make two deals with Bernie: 1) Fire DWS which benefits everyone but who he has a particular problem with and get somebody more competent in there more to his liking. He's not going to work with her in regards to my 2nd point which is: 2) I'd send Sanders into like 10 congressional districts in states where he ran strong, such as WI or IA or even MI but there's a Gooper in a semi-competitive race and ask him to go all in to turn out young voters to vote for the D. Have him use his network for fundraising as well. IF he manages to flip several of these seats, he just earned himself a lot of chips to cash in at a later date.

Good enough for me. Hillary doesn't fire her soldiers, though, and to be honest that's for the best. She shouldn't have cut the DWS deal but she did and now she has to stand by her.

One good thing that comes of this is Tulsi Gabbard (D -- Messed Up Cult) will be buried in a Jersey swamp. I have insider reasons for loathing her, and I'm not at all sorry to see that by whistleblowing on DWS so publicly to earn a few Fox News spots, she cut her own political throat.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

This whole essay is brilliant and makes my blood run cold.

 

[joecct]

This whole essay is brilliant and makes my blood run cold.

Truth hurts????

 

[GrinCDXX]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

This whole essay is brilliant and makes my blood run cold.

I was thinking throughout that piece that this smugness is hardly confined to the left.

Truth hurts????

Case in point.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

Truth hurts????

In a word? Yes.

I fully agree that it's not confined to the left -- you can see it every day if you frequent righty sites. But I don't care what the right does. That is not my lookout.

I agree with the author: it's worse than a crime, it's a blunder. Even if we were correct about everything, this way does not lead to practical results. There has to be a better way, involving rather than intellectually assaulting people.

 

[unofan]

In a word? Yes.

I fully agree that it's not confined to the left -- you can see it every day if you frequent righty sites. But I don't care what the right does. That is not my lookout.

I agree with the author: it's worse than a crime, it's a blunder. Even if we were correct about everything, this way does not lead to practical results. There has to be a better way, involving rather than intellectually assaulting people.

This may be reinforcing the article's point, but I've never said I've been above schadenfruede. That Kansas has turned into a streaming pile after going full derp is a reason to be smug. They re-elected Brownback even after the writing was on the wall regarding the impact of his policies; they're getting exactly what they voted for.

Likewise, Trump is the end result of seven years of media bombardment by the Murdoch empire that Obama is a socialist Muslim librul who is ruining the country. Otherwise intelligent people have bought into that line. They created the monster and now they have to deal with it. I'm not going to lie and say I don't get satisfaction that the chickens are coming home to roost.

If that's smugness, so be it. But I also get sick of the "blue collar hero" bullshiat that underlies that article and plenty of others, as though becoming educated and a professional is antithetical to being American. You know why cities get more attention these days? Because America is an urban country. 81% of Americans lived in urban areas in the last census. The frontier was settled decades ago, and machines mean we don't need 50 hired hands on every farm. I'm not going to apologize for getting an Ivy League degree and enjoying city life.

 

[joecct]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

I was thinking throughout that piece that this smugness is hardly confined to the left.



Case in point.

'Twas not a smug post on my part. I inquired of the Squire of Point of Rocks if this article struck a nerve. Base on his reply, he understood the author's points and, it seems, agreed with them.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

This may be reinforcing the article's point, but I've never said I've been above schadenfruede. That Kansas has turned into a streaming pile after going full derp is a reason to be smug. They re-elected Brownback even after the writing was on the wall regarding the impact of his policies; they're getting exactly what they voted for.

Likewise, Trump is the end result of seven years of media bombardment by the Murdoch empire that Obama is a socialist Muslim librul who is ruining the country. Otherwise intelligent people have bought into that line. They created the monster and now they have to deal with it. I'm not going to lie and say I don't get satisfaction that the chickens are coming home to roost.

If that's smugness, so be it. But I also get sick of the "blue collar hero" bullshiat that underlies that article and plenty of others, as though becoming educated and a professional is antithetical to being American. You know why cities get more attention these days? Because America is an urban country. 81% of Americans lived in urban areas in the last census. The frontier was settled decades ago, and machines mean we don't need 50 hired hands on every farm. I'm not going to apologize for getting an Ivy League degree and enjoying city life.

Sure, but you can glory in your life without belittling others. And yes, obviously, the Ted Cruz types will belittle us because that's how they appeal to their troops in the culture wars. I read the author as saying when we do that we weaken our own cause, and that's the bottom line.

I think this has a lot to do with the unwritten rule that mockery works better up than down. Blacks have a raw deal so black comics have a field day with whites, whereas you have to be a spectacularly talented white comic to be funny rather than a a-hole going the other way. Same with women and men, poor and rich. Maybe we've gotten to where country mouse is allowed to make fun of city mouse but if you go the other way you're a bully. I mean if that's true, the good news is: we won.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

'Twas not a smug post on my part. I inquired of the Squire of Point of Rocks if this article struck a nerve. Base on his reply, he understood the author's points and, it seems, agreed with them.

The formal title is "Seigneur."

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

This may be reinforcing the article's point, but I've never said I've been above schadenfruede. That Kansas has turned into a streaming pile after going full derp is a reason to be smug. They re-elected Brownback even after the writing was on the wall regarding the impact of his policies; they're getting exactly what they voted for.

Likewise, Trump is the end result of seven years of media bombardment by the Murdoch empire that Obama is a socialist Muslim librul who is ruining the country. Otherwise intelligent people have bought into that line. They created the monster and now they have to deal with it. I'm not going to lie and say I don't get satisfaction that the chickens are coming home to roost.

If that's smugness, so be it. But I also get sick of the "blue collar hero" bullshiat that underlies that article and plenty of others, as though becoming educated and a professional is antithetical to being American. You know why cities get more attention these days? Because America is an urban country. 81% of Americans lived in urban areas in the last census. The frontier was settled decades ago, and machines mean we don't need 50 hired hands on every farm. I'm not going to apologize for getting an Ivy League degree and enjoying city life.

And I do believe that you're missing some of the point the article. It isn't that liberalism is wrong in its end goals/conclusions on what will make America better, it's about changing the method of how you go about disseminating that point of view. Instead of taking a smug route, take the time to discuss with those lesser beings so you can help them understand. Don't spend time giving each other the wink-and-nod of righteousness, rather try reaching out and re-establishing a rapport with the masses. Most of all, when doing this, there has to be not only sincerity in meeting the end goal, but also intent and empathy. That latter two are where the liberal elites lose the masses, because it's often seen as the elites spouting off just to make themselves feel better about being superior, not a true desire to help.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XI: the Two Party Problem

To that end I'd make two deals with Bernie: 1) Fire DWS which benefits everyone but who he has a particular problem with and get somebody more competent in there more to his liking. He's not going to work with her in regards to my 2nd point which is: 2) I'd send Sanders into like 10 congressional districts in states where he ran strong, such as WI or IA or even MI but there's a Gooper in a semi-competitive race and ask him to go all in to turn out young voters to vote for the D. Have him use his network for fundraising as well. IF he manages to flip several of these seats, he just earned himself a lot of chips to cash in at a later date.

The first one is essential. Outside of The Clintonistas no one likes DWS. Bring back Howard Dean his strategy and leadership was awesome and I doubt Bernie has any issues with him. Your second idea is great too...have Bernie out there drumming up support from the Progressives. Use the fact that quite a large percentage like him and his ideas to push forth the Dem agenda country wide.