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Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

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Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Ummm...Okay :eek:

Kelley Paul told CNN that she “has so much influence over her husband, she even changed his name. When they started dating, he was called Randy — and had been his whole life — until she changed it to Rand.”

Said Mrs. Paul: “I remember thinking, your name just does not fit you. You don’t seem like a Randy. And I started calling him Rand and he liked it.”
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Rover said:
Ummm...Okay :eek:

Kelley Paul told CNN that she “has so much influence over her husband, she even changed his name. When they started dating, he was called Randy — and had been his whole life — until she changed it to Rand.”

Said Mrs. Paul: “I remember thinking, your name just does not fit you. You don’t seem like a Randy. And I started calling him Rand and he liked it.”
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Did she also convince him to cozy up to the Industrial Military Complex?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Rover said:
I was amused by the cartoon as well but there is one thing whiny libs like daily kos keep bringing up that needs mentioning.

Clinton, like countless other Dems, was duped into voting for the Iraq war by doctored intelligence and lies. When you're being told a homicidal dictator, which Hussein was, is about to acquire nukes if we don't do something now, backed up by CIA reports and more respected people like Colin Powell, no s#!t a lot of Dems voted for it. People like Fienstein, Carper, Dodd, Rockefeller and Cantwell also supported it. I don't hold the people who were conned as responsible as the people doing the conning however. Its like blaming Madoff's victims for the fraud as much as him.
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She was protecting herself politically. She knew that when war fever is in the air, most of the population become orangutans throwing their own poop and a politician's best chance is to go along with it. Everybody in DC knew Cheney and his goons had the war on the drawing board for years. It was going to happen and the apes were going to crush anybody who got in the way. So she got out of the way. Pure calculation.

As Chris Rock said: I don't condone it, but I understand.

I'll give your girl this. There are worse things to have in the White House than a pragmatist.
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Kepler said:
She was protecting herself politically. She knew that when war fever is in the air, most of the population become orangutans throwing their own poop and a politician's best chance is to go along with it. Everybody in DC knew Cheney and his goons had the war on the drawing board for years. It was going to happen and the apes were going to crush anybody who got in the way. So she got out of the way. Pure calculation.

As Chris Rock said: I don't condone it, but I understand.

I'll give your girl this. There are worse things to have in the White House than a pragmatist.
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I'm getting a little older, but let me see if I recall all of this...

From what I remember, the idea (from the Dems) was to give the US military authorization to take action to force the Iraqis to comply with inspections (and possibly regime change). At the point of a gun in the final days before the war started, Hussein did in fact offer unfettered access to his country. Of his many, many, huge mistakes, Bush should have taken him up on his offer, then he would have found no WMD's before 5K US troops and 1T in expenditures happened. Bush wasn't offering to come back for another resolution, so Dems were in a hard place. You either 1) gave the admin the tools to force compliance, with now unrealistic hope the neo-cons would use that authority properly, or you voted against it and if the US did find something, or worse yet Saddam used chemical weapons against our troops, good luck withstanding that. I agree on the pragmatism, but it was more than just getting out of the way. The set up for the war was orchestrated brilliantly, right down to phony intelligence and normally trustworthy partners (Powell, Tony Blair) giving valuable cover to the cons. Hell, Oprah was even on board. :eek:
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

ScoobyDoo said:
And God bless Bernie Sanders.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/sanders-van-hollen-christie-social-security
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I love Bernie, but I'm ready to means-test all of our social programs. Social Security should be insurance against indigence when you can no longer work. If you retire rich, congratulations, you win. Advance to Millionaire Acres. You don't need the check, though, so we're keeping it for somebody who does. Put your big girl panties on and enjoy your slightly less affluent golden years.

I know Bernie and many liberals believe that tactically the only way to keep social programs funded is to make them entitlements, because people are greedy creeps who won't fund pure charity programs, but I believe we have to combat that selfishness in society, not appease it. And I also believe that if the voters decide to shaft the poors, in a democracy they have that right. Not a country I want to live in, but that's why God made luggage.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Kepler said:
I love Bernie, but I'm ready to means-test all of our social programs. Social Security should be insurance against indigence when you can no longer work. If you retire rich, congratulations, you win. Advance to Millionaire Acres. You don't need the check, though, so we're keeping it for somebody who does. Put your big girl panties on and enjoy your slightly less affluent golden years.

I know Bernie and many liberals believe that tactically the only way to keep social programs funded is to make them entitlements, because people are greedy creeps who won't fund pure charity programs, but I believe we have to combat that selfishness in society, not appease it. And I also believe that if the voters decide to shaft the poors, in a democracy they have that right. Not a country I want to live in, but that's why God made luggage.
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Well, that's pretty funny because Social Security is the most regressive tax we have. And the rate it's at is only 6% away from Mitt Romney's Federal Rate.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Kepler said:
I love Bernie, but I'm ready to means-test all of our social programs. Social Security should be insurance against indigence when you can no longer work. If you retire rich, congratulations, you win. Advance to Millionaire Acres. You don't need the check, though, so we're keeping it for somebody who does. Put your big girl panties on and enjoy your slightly less affluent golden years.

I know Bernie and many liberals believe that tactically the only way to keep social programs funded is to make them entitlements, because people are greedy creeps who won't fund pure charity programs, but I believe we have to combat that selfishness in society, not appease it. And I also believe that if the voters decide to shaft the poors, in a democracy they have that right. Not a country I want to live in, but that's why God made luggage.
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I think if you do this for social security especially, it shouldn't be retroactive--meaning you means-test only the amount that was payed in after you decided to add means-testing. There's something not right about telling people that the money they have been paying in for their entire working lives isn't a tax then suddenly telling them "Turns out it was a tax all along." I'm all for strengthening the safety net, but it has to be done the right way.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

GrinCDXX said:
I think if you do this for social security especially, it shouldn't be retroactive--meaning you means-test only the amount that was payed in after you decided to add means-testing. There's something not right about telling people that the money they have been paying in for their entire working lives isn't a tax then suddenly telling them "Turns out it was a tax all along." I'm all for strengthening the safety net, but it has to be done the right way.
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I'll buy that. But by the same token, then, once you've entered the system they should not be able to raise the collection age. That would be another bait and switch.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

ScoobyDoo said:
Well, that's pretty funny because Social Security is the most regressive tax we have. And the rate it's at is only 6% away from Mitt Romney's Federal Rate.
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Non sequitur. If you're concerned about progressivism of fiscal policy then if anything you should favor means-testing outlays.

BTW, if you're arguing to uncap payroll taxes I'm right there with you.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Kepler said:
Non sequitur. If you're concerned about progressivism of fiscal policy then if anything you should favor means-testing outlays.

BTW, if you're arguing to uncap payroll taxes I'm right there with you.
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I have no problem with Means Testing. I'm just concerned where the means test is going to fall. They always get the numbers wrong. Middle Class starts too low. Poverty level is WAY WAY WAY too low. Where the middle class ends in my mind isn't high enough.

So, it all depends on where the numbers placed.

And yes uncapping or at least fixing the cap and the rate is needed greatly.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Kepler said:
I'll buy that. But by the same token, then, once you've entered the system they should not be able to raise the collection age. That would be another bait and switch.
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Yeah, very true. I'm sure principle will have to give somewhere to keep the thing afloat--means-testing is certainly a more pragmatic sacrifice of principle than a blanket change of collection age.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

ScoobyDoo said:
I have no problem with Means Testing. I'm just concerned where the means test is going to fall. They always get the numbers wrong. Middle Class starts too low. Poverty level is WAY WAY WAY too low. Where the middle class ends in my mind isn't high enough.

So, it all depends on where the numbers placed.
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Disagreement averted. I am disappoint! :mad:
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Subscribed because I don't know how I missed this thread
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Once again Kepler and I are in agreement.
 
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