dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Yup. Burn it. This is no longer a negotiation.
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Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(
- Thread starter RaceBoarder
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While I will always enjoy watching The Smartest Person In The World act like a complete fucking idiot, I don't think all of Tesla's problems come from Elon's stupidity. Yes, spitting in the face of the customers you market to is not... a smart move. And yes, the people who suddenly love him will never, ever buy an EV, ever. That is absolutely a big factor here, obviously.
But Tesla has benefitted from being one of the few players in the EV game for a long time. Alternatives were either tiny, insanely expensive, not fully developed relative to Teslas, lacking all of the cool techy stuff Teslas have (while costing the same), or some combination of those. In 2023, most manufacturers have EV offerings now, if not all. And they're good. Like, genuinely good. Competitively priced, competitive on tech. The "First Mover" benefit is gone. Hell, Hyundai makes a few outstanding options that weren't... quite there 5-7 years ago. Add to this the EV tax discount having a price cap, making a few Tesla models ineligible.
And Teslas have always had a premium on them. Now, that premium doesn't carry the same value add.
I've always argued that Tesla is an amazing battery and software company that puts those outstanding products in poorly built cars, and further that once the big manufacturers figure out the tech, their offerings would likely be far superior to Tesla. And I think that worm is turning for Tesla. Probably heavily accelerated by Musk's silly edgelord crap, but this was always going to happen.
But Tesla has benefitted from being one of the few players in the EV game for a long time. Alternatives were either tiny, insanely expensive, not fully developed relative to Teslas, lacking all of the cool techy stuff Teslas have (while costing the same), or some combination of those. In 2023, most manufacturers have EV offerings now, if not all. And they're good. Like, genuinely good. Competitively priced, competitive on tech. The "First Mover" benefit is gone. Hell, Hyundai makes a few outstanding options that weren't... quite there 5-7 years ago. Add to this the EV tax discount having a price cap, making a few Tesla models ineligible.
And Teslas have always had a premium on them. Now, that premium doesn't carry the same value add.
I've always argued that Tesla is an amazing battery and software company that puts those outstanding products in poorly built cars, and further that once the big manufacturers figure out the tech, their offerings would likely be far superior to Tesla. And I think that worm is turning for Tesla. Probably heavily accelerated by Musk's silly edgelord crap, but this was always going to happen.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
He was never going to Mars...you gotta stop with that. He was lying about that like he has been lying about the Tesla Truck, has been lying about Twitter and lied about taking Tesla private.
Swan,
As I said it is only a factor. Tesla was always going to fall off sooner or later (especially since it seems they have zero ability to innovate) but they would have had a nice niche and a solid core fanbase that could have sustained them for a while while they transitioned to something else. (I agree with you I always figured their future was in the tech that goes into the newer generations other companies make) They have definitely burned that bridge.
Swan,
As I said it is only a factor. Tesla was always going to fall off sooner or later (especially since it seems they have zero ability to innovate) but they would have had a nice niche and a solid core fanbase that could have sustained them for a while while they transitioned to something else. (I agree with you I always figured their future was in the tech that goes into the newer generations other companies make) They have definitely burned that bridge.
I don't know that I agree about their innovation. Yes, Elon is 97.5% flash and very little burn, but they have been at the forefront of medium and large scale battery tech for a long time and continue to push that. I really believe that these battery farms are an unrealized ... solution* to energy generation. Currently, widespread power generation needs to match output to demand. Having the ability to store power would allow us to expand renewable energy in ways we weren't necessarily able to before. It would allow us to more easily handle the huge swings in power demand due to time of day/weather/whatever, and would blunt a lot of issues that arise when power plants have to go offline or partially offline.
Plus, wouldn't it be nice if I could put solar panels on my roof/property and have it feed a battery, which powers my house (instead of dumping excess into the grid)? We do this with cars - the alternator generates power that recharges the battery and the car's electrical system pulls from the battery.
*Solution is far too strong a word but I don't know of a better one.
Plus, wouldn't it be nice if I could put solar panels on my roof/property and have it feed a battery, which powers my house (instead of dumping excess into the grid)? We do this with cars - the alternator generates power that recharges the battery and the car's electrical system pulls from the battery.
*Solution is far too strong a word but I don't know of a better one.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
The point wasn't that he was GOING TO MARS. The point was that he was researching technologies to try and accomplish that. So, no I will not stop. He fucking picked twitter over legitimate human progress research. He's an assclown.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Yes, now there is something that may have advanced from the Mars research. Instead, social media is where all the billionaire's go.
ticapnews
Never Forget!
Except that's not how marginal works. If you made $750,000 through D&D then you owe nothing. If you made $750,001 you would owe a quarter. Not 25% of everything...a literal quarter. It isn't their fault their fans are morons who don't understand economics besides what Fucker Tarlson tells them on Fox every night.
ticapnews
Never Forget!
Speaking of morons who don't understand economics and are obsessed with Fucker & Friends, I am starting a new company to take advantage of the sudden love for gas stoves (even among those who don't own one) and the zeal with which people defend the right to own and use the devices however they want. Introducing the Patriot Stove: a 100% gas powered stove, shaped like an American flag (because, duh), with a secret compartment to store your vast array of guns and coated with Asbestos (for safety). Anyone interested in investing in this company, please send an email to griftersanon(at)gmail.com and our legal team from Dewey, Cheatem & Howe will be in touch.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Solution is closer to the correct word than incorrect word. 25% of of all electricity generated is lost in transmission. If you could generate your house's demand for electricity and store excess for the rainy days, that's ideal. You'd gain 25% on transmission and probably only lose 10-15% on scale (scaling solars is basically adding cells, right?)
Anyways, storage is a really important part of the actual solution. Whether it's batteries or flywheels or compressed gas or whatever. It seems fucking stupid to throw away an almost insurmountable lead with like, eight double faults in a row.
You said “if” you could store for excess for rainy days - well, you can! The problem is that it’s not economical right now, relative to the marginal cost of a bigger centralized power plant and more/higher capacity transmission lines. Also, don’t forget that there are significant losses putting energy into a battery, getting it back out, and just “leaking” over time. Lithium ion is pretty good, but even that loses around 5%. Will the battery lifetime be long enough to pay for itself in energy saved before it goes kaput? Doubtful.
The entire key to making local generation and storage work is to get the capital cost down low enough so that the answer to that last question is a resounding, no-brainer, “yes.”
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
If the cost problem with storage is economy of scale how about a midrange solution of local community storage like water towers and reservoirs?
Storage that serves 10 square miles, or a hundred -- whatever cuts the cost curve down to where it beats fossil fuel power generation?
And start it as a public utility to get the private sector vultures out of power.
Storage that serves 10 square miles, or a hundred -- whatever cuts the cost curve down to where it beats fossil fuel power generation?
And start it as a public utility to get the private sector vultures out of power.
aparch
Well-known member
Musk is pushing an iOS update to Twitter which will piss off the userbase: a For You page (direct from TikTok) that is the default every time you open the app. The chronological timeline will be hidden.
https://www.inc.com/jason-aten/twit...ionary-tale-every-business-needs-to-hear.html
Oh, and third party API's were broken over the weekend causing popular Twitter apps like Tweetdeck to not work.
https://www.inc.com/jason-aten/twit...ionary-tale-every-business-needs-to-hear.html
Oh, and third party API's were broken over the weekend causing popular Twitter apps like Tweetdeck to not work.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
I mean innovate cars. I was agreeing with you on the batteries that is why I figured that is where they would head. Especially if they really want to go private. The true value of Tesla is not the car it is the battery tech/design which seems way ahead of everyone else. There are better vehicles out there. Put a Tesla batter in a major market car and you have a killer combo.
If Elmo was the genius people think he is that is where they would be headed.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
He did something like that for the web page too, though once you select the "following" tab instead of "for you" it sticks as your default. Amazingly "For You" has an algorithm that selects mostly the Right Wing twats that people I am friends with or follow also follow. No joke the first 20 tweets were from Kari Lake, Ben Shapiro Tim young and other nimrods.
Oh I got you, and totally agree with this.
License the battery tech or be the battery designer/manufacturer for auto makers (and... everyone else!). If he's so into his software, then focus on the software and license that to the auto makers as well. Sure, GM makes more money than the company that makes brake parts and moving to this would basically make you a supplier instead of an auto maker, but you'd be a supplier to every damn industry. Work with Boeing and Airbus and Pratt & Whitney and Rolls-Royce and help develop the next generation of airplane propulsion. Work with National Grid to leverage your batteries for national/local/regional/individual storage. The sky is quite literally as high as your imagination can take it and Tesla is a true force in this space.
But apparently, being an edgelord and running Twitter into the ground is more up his alley.
unofan
Well-known member
Because scale is just one of the issues, not the only one. Even utility scale storage is not yet truly cost effective.
And then you add current regulatory hurdles where batteries are both generators and load depending on whether they're charging or releasing their charge. That part will eventually work itself out for utility scale batteries, but it'll take time.
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