Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

[unofan]

Agreed. IMHO the benefits of the "gig economy" have been way oversold by everyone while the downside isn't discussed as much. When something like this happens they're the first people to take it in the shorts. Yes its nice being your own boss but there's no benefits, retirement, unemployment payments in many cases, and a whole host of other problems. I'm not sure the mechanisms exist to shelter these people from the current economic shock and I shudder to think of how many are in this situation (working as contractors essentially).

Uh, the shortfalls of the gig economy have been discussed in great detail.

 

[Rover]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

Uh, the shortfalls of the gig economy have been discussed in great detail.

Not enough uno. Not nearly enough before the sh it hit the fan.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

Not enough uno. Not nearly enough before the sh it hit the fan.

The people in power didn't care. They still don't.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

When people look back at the last 40 years they will conclude we did the wrong thing, prioritizing the bank accounts of a few over the well being of the general population. They will look at you as a psychopath who valued further enriching the wealthiest among us over saving the lives of the poorest.

Okay, then.

 

[rufus]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

We don't have the systems in place for that. Which is what I was arguing earlier and got shot down.

What do you mean? We cut a check for a large portion of the country every April. If you worked, you paid payroll taxes. If you didn't, you got welfare, or SS distributions. We have census data. How hard can it be to collate a few databases?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

That's socialism, and we can't be having any of that rainbows and unicorns socialism on the GOP's watch.

Or ours.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

I just disagree. We've blown 23 trillion dollars the last 40 years on ****. And now we're swimming in **** and don't have the resources to deal with it.

Just because you say a thing doesnt make it real. Short of having Federal Unemployment Protection there isnt much that can be done when 17 million people lose their job in 3 weeks.

I am not saying the GOP hasnt screwed up the country and economy badly...but this isnt something that would have been fixed by that reversal anyways. Capitalism is the issue here...

 

[Kepler]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

Ban the idea of independent one-person contractors. They're all employees and need to be protected. Decouple job from insurance by creating a national health service. Force corporations to cap dividends, buybacks, etc. as a certain multiple of employee retirement benefits and salary.

Kill the idea of contractors completely. If somebody works for you they the same full benefits, from janitor to CFO. Companies want to free themselves from paying for their employees' health care? Get behind Single Payer and dramatically higher top marginal tax rates, uncap FICA, and tax all income at the new levels (say 90% above 100M, 75% above 10M, 50% above 1M).

Repeal the last forty years of plutocracy and claw back the 50+ trillion dollars they stole from us.

As a start.

 

[unofan]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

Not enough uno. Not nearly enough before the sh it hit the fan.

Just because Wall Street ignores it because it's good for their bottom line doesn't mean the rest of us haven't seen what a ****show it is.

Every time some WSJ-reading Boomer talks about how kids these days love the flexibility of being an Uber driver, there are five millennials or zoomers pushing back about the reality.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

From Elizabeth Warren's Facebook.

Some of us said from the beginning that Bill was a joke and the Dems got played. And here we are...

Sorry Liz but you knew what you were getting when that bill passed. The language was clear as day to anyone who read it.

 

[unofan]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

Kill the idea of contractors completely.

So you want to be the formal employer of your electrician making the emergency house call when your furnace dies in January?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

Just because you say a thing doesnt make it real. Short of having Federal Unemployment Protection there isnt much that can be done when 17 million people lose their job in 3 weeks.

I am not saying the GOP hasnt screwed up the country and economy badly...but this isnt something that would have been fixed by that reversal anyways. Capitalism is the issue here...

Yes. Capitalism is the problem. And the only thing that makes Capitalism work is guardrails. And where do the guardrails come from? Government.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

If they are independent contractors, who exactly are their employers?

Businesses who have felt the crunch first are small businesses, typically owned by a single person. They're called sole proprietorships, usually, although some have incorporated or formed limited liability companies to try to give them some legal protection from creditors.

There are something like 25 million of them, and they are far and away the most popular form of business. They include some guy cutting grass for a living. They also included, at one time, Apple, Amazon and a multitude of other enormous companies.

So, you're just going to wave that magic hand of yours and deem those forms of businesses banned?

Yeah except, and I know you know this, that many companies post ObamaCare to keep their numbers down started contracting workers as ICs to keep them off the rolls. You conveniently look at only the old school use of the IC handle when there are dozens of ways ICs are used (not just the gig economy) to avoid the business having to give benefits to workers.

(I worked in the trucking Industry...this was HUGE)

Independent Contractors are a joke nowadays, and are just a way for corporations to keep their workers making less than they should with less benefits.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

I guess I hadn't really thought of it before. Everyone in these threads is a W-2.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

Yes. Capitalism is the problem. And the only thing that makes Capitalism work is guardrails. And where do the guardrails come from? Government.

Ok...seeing as apparently you know what the Government could have done (and would have done if Democrats ruled the country for the last 40 years) what guard rails would be in place right now?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

Yes. The free market is the problem. And the only thing that makes the free market work is guardrails. And where do the guardrails come from? Government.

Fixed that for you. The market economy is the problem but as long as there are energy or material scarcities it's still a good tool as long as it is regulated.

Capitalism, OTOH, is just a method for horders of unearned wealth to exploit people who are productive and creative. Capitalism can die in a fire. It has no redeeming characteristics.

Have workers own their place of work and produce products which then compete in a free market, with government as a watchdog to prevent the powerful from preying on the weak. We can have a market economy without billionaires and rentiers and political bribery. We can kill the demons who have hijacked Adam Smith's great idea and have a society where we care more about one another than our excess portfolio.

 

[Rover]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

Just because Wall Street ignores it because it's good for their bottom line doesn't mean the rest of us haven't seen what a ****show it is.

Every time some WSJ-reading Boomer talks about how kids these days love the flexibility of being an Uber driver, there are five millennials or zoomers pushing back about the reality.

I can't speak to the news coverage in Omaha but I rarely see a discussion of the long term financial downside of the gig economy as your career and I wouldn't use the WSJ to wipe my rear end, let alone read it. Its not that people are openly campaigning for the gig economy although that does happen, its that the other side of the coin isn't discussed in depth beyond the anecdotes we're now seeing once the bottom has fallen out with no safety net for these people. Its not just uber drivers. Its nurses, tech support, laborers, etc etc. All of these people will have to work until they drop, if they're able to keep finding jobs, as there is no benefits or retirement associated with their work.

Regarding a solution, I would say something like if you hire a contractor for more than 3 months you have to offer them health insurance just like regular employees and also pay your contribution to their payroll taxes. Retirement is a little tricky as most companies that I've worked for make you wait a year before they start contributing a match.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

More than that too. Nurses (LPN's), tech people, etc - lots of people working on a contract basis out there. We're about to realize the scope of that the hard way unfortunately.

Yeah. Plus, in many businesses the ICs dont get to unionize. That is why the gig workers strike is a joke because there are 17 million people who will cross that picket line tomorrow if it means they can pay their bills. Like Instacart gives is scared...

 

[Handyman]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

What the hell good does a payroll tax cut do for people who aren't working?

Just cut everyone a check. Or multiple checks.

Hey Amazon is paying their employees well and being safe they deserve a cut...oh wait!

Capitalism is the problem. We could have instituted short term UBI (as you know) and saved the economy for cheaper. Instead we gave corporations a ton, the people very little and pretended to care about small business.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

Ok...seeing as apparently you know what the Government could have done (and would have done if Democrats ruled the country for the last 40 years) what guard rails would be in place right now?

The first one is obvious. Single Payer Health Care. That takes a lot of stress off the system. #2? Family Leave. #3 Better Unemployment Insurance. What we have now sucks. #4. All of this would be made available to everyone instead of just people who are anything but self employed. My wife is self employed. It puts a lot of stress on me because I have to carry the health insurance/benefits burden.

There's three right there.