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Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(
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ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(
While I agree with Handy that this situation is extreme what's not being acknowledged here is that the way the United States is set up there are no shock absorbers built into the system to cushion the blow. We as a society decided that we wanted a profit driven system with just in time manufacture and delivery. Look at how under Trump the stockpiles we do have went unmaintained. Masks that were rotted ship to New York. Machines that didn't work shipped to California. No startup of masks and ventilators in January. We cut the pandemic response team and pulled them out of numerous countries before this occurred. The "extra" trillion dollars the Republicans thought we had went to the 1% just a couple of years ago. We have antiquated Employment insurance, sick leave, vacation time, and pay scales for all our workers.
I could go on and on.
While I agree with Handy that this situation is extreme what's not being acknowledged here is that the way the United States is set up there are no shock absorbers built into the system to cushion the blow. We as a society decided that we wanted a profit driven system with just in time manufacture and delivery. Look at how under Trump the stockpiles we do have went unmaintained. Masks that were rotted ship to New York. Machines that didn't work shipped to California. No startup of masks and ventilators in January. We cut the pandemic response team and pulled them out of numerous countries before this occurred. The "extra" trillion dollars the Republicans thought we had went to the 1% just a couple of years ago. We have antiquated Employment insurance, sick leave, vacation time, and pay scales for all our workers.
I could go on and on.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(
Dude, you can't design shock absorbers to protect against this. That would be like trying to design shock absorbers to stop a Delta IV heavy. These kinds of protections don't exist and have never existed and probably won't ever exist. Maybe, but probably not.
And I see Hovey is still on his, "Well, we probably should have just killed 2-5% of the population because muh money!" Which is particularly stupid because it still would have stopped the economy.
Dude, you can't design shock absorbers to protect against this. That would be like trying to design shock absorbers to stop a Delta IV heavy. These kinds of protections don't exist and have never existed and probably won't ever exist. Maybe, but probably not.
And I see Hovey is still on his, "Well, we probably should have just killed 2-5% of the population because muh money!" Which is particularly stupid because it still would have stopped the economy.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(
I just disagree. We've blown 23 trillion dollars the last 40 years on ****. And now we're swimming in **** and don't have the resources to deal with it.
I just disagree. We've blown 23 trillion dollars the last 40 years on ****. And now we're swimming in **** and don't have the resources to deal with it.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Kettle Medallion
Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Art Laffer is being floated as head of a new task force to "reopen" the US economy. He spoke to <a href="https://twitter.com/annsaphir?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@annsaphir</a> about what he'd do: <a href="https://t.co/z0U9X6qWgJ">https://t.co/z0U9X6qWgJ</a></p>— Heather Timmons (@HeathaT) <a href="https://twitter.com/HeathaT/status/1248227876299735040?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<img src="https://media0.giphy.com/media/3oz8xIFq8hQcRJ47As/giphy.gif"></img>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Art Laffer is being floated as head of a new task force to "reopen" the US economy. He spoke to <a href="https://twitter.com/annsaphir?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@annsaphir</a> about what he'd do: <a href="https://t.co/z0U9X6qWgJ">https://t.co/z0U9X6qWgJ</a></p>— Heather Timmons (@HeathaT) <a href="https://twitter.com/HeathaT/status/1248227876299735040?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<img src="https://media0.giphy.com/media/3oz8xIFq8hQcRJ47As/giphy.gif"></img>
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(
That is EXACTLY what we will end up doing. EXACTLY.
That is EXACTLY what we will end up doing. EXACTLY.
Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(
Agreed. IMHO the benefits of the "gig economy" have been way oversold by everyone while the downside isn't discussed as much. When something like this happens they're the first people to take it in the shorts. Yes its nice being your own boss but there's no benefits, retirement, unemployment payments in many cases, and a whole host of other problems. I'm not sure the mechanisms exist to shelter these people from the current economic shock and I shudder to think of how many are in this situation (working as contractors essentially).
Agreed. IMHO the benefits of the "gig economy" have been way oversold by everyone while the downside isn't discussed as much. When something like this happens they're the first people to take it in the shorts. Yes its nice being your own boss but there's no benefits, retirement, unemployment payments in many cases, and a whole host of other problems. I'm not sure the mechanisms exist to shelter these people from the current economic shock and I shudder to think of how many are in this situation (working as contractors essentially).
aparch
Well-known member
Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(
Why do I get the feeling that all of this involvement and bailout taking place this summer is going to be the equivalent of dining and dashing on Trump's part? We all know how good he is at making contractors eat their costs for his personal gain.
Why do I get the feeling that all of this involvement and bailout taking place this summer is going to be the equivalent of dining and dashing on Trump's part? We all know how good he is at making contractors eat their costs for his personal gain.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(
Yeah, you have to prevent the need for shock absorbers in the first place. Ban the idea of independent one-person contractors. They're all employees and need to be protected. Decouple job from insurance by creating a national health service. Force corporations to cap dividends, buybacks, etc. as a certain multiple of employee retirement benefits and salary.
Yeah, you have to prevent the need for shock absorbers in the first place. Ban the idea of independent one-person contractors. They're all employees and need to be protected. Decouple job from insurance by creating a national health service. Force corporations to cap dividends, buybacks, etc. as a certain multiple of employee retirement benefits and salary.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(
It works fine if you give small businesses and gig economy businesses access to the same things that large companies have. That takes a government program. One that we don't have.
It works fine if you give small businesses and gig economy businesses access to the same things that large companies have. That takes a government program. One that we don't have.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, YES.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, YES.
Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(
If they are independent contractors, who exactly are their employers?
Businesses who have felt the crunch first are small businesses, typically owned by a single person. They're called sole proprietorships, usually, although some have incorporated or formed limited liability companies to try to give them some legal protection from creditors.
There are something like 25 million of them, and they are far and away the most popular form of business. They include some guy cutting grass for a living. They also included, at one time, Apple, Amazon and a multitude of other enormous companies.
So, you're just going to wave that magic hand of yours and deem those forms of businesses banned?
If they are independent contractors, who exactly are their employers?
Businesses who have felt the crunch first are small businesses, typically owned by a single person. They're called sole proprietorships, usually, although some have incorporated or formed limited liability companies to try to give them some legal protection from creditors.
There are something like 25 million of them, and they are far and away the most popular form of business. They include some guy cutting grass for a living. They also included, at one time, Apple, Amazon and a multitude of other enormous companies.
So, you're just going to wave that magic hand of yours and deem those forms of businesses banned?
Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(
If he is, that's a tiny, tiny fraction of the people now out of work in this country.
If he is, that's a tiny, tiny fraction of the people now out of work in this country.
Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(
When people look back at the last 40 years they will conclude we did the wrong thing, prioritizing the bank accounts of a few over the well being of the general population. They will look at you as a psychopath who valued further enriching the wealthiest among us over saving the lives of the poorest.
SJHovey said:
When people look back at the last 40 years they will conclude we did the wrong thing, prioritizing the bank accounts of a few over the well being of the general population. They will look at you as a psychopath who valued further enriching the wealthiest among us over saving the lives of the poorest.
Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(
More than that too. Nurses (LPN's), tech people, etc - lots of people working on a contract basis out there. We're about to realize the scope of that the hard way unfortunately.
More than that too. Nurses (LPN's), tech people, etc - lots of people working on a contract basis out there. We're about to realize the scope of that the hard way unfortunately.
aparch
Well-known member
That's socialism, and we can't be having any of that rainbows and unicorns socialism on the GOP's watch.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(
We don't have the systems in place for that. Which is what I was arguing earlier and got shot down.
We don't have the systems in place for that. Which is what I was arguing earlier and got shot down.
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