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Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder

Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder

kdiff77 said:
Anyone going to the Mayor's Cup Saturday? I can't imagine we'll knock off PC, but two free tickets came with the season tickets. They put me up in Section J.
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I'm planning on making the game. Last game I saw was the Quinnipiac game, couldn't make UNH, though I had initially planned on going. My expectations aren't too high, though. It'd be nice to get a win, but my bigger concern would be this being a blowout or getting away from us early, which has happened a couple times in the past few years.

I'm concerned about the offensive output, or lack thereof. It seems as though this team has struggled to gel - which is surprising, since I initially thought that the guys we were bringing back and/or in were better than the group that graduated. I keep waiting for one of the goalies to steal a game, but that hasn't yet happened -and as a result every mistake has been magnified. But the goaltending, to me, is a minor issue compared to only three guys in the lineup with more htan two goals after nine games. I'm hoping for some positive momentum going into the exam break, otherwise this season could quickly get away from the Bears.
 
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder

Per Mike Hutter's request:

The PC game is one of a handful that will be aired on AM790, available on the 790 website if not local. I have also heard that the Harvard game next weekend will be on 790, and I assume the audio is linked into the video feed. I know that Mike and John Anderson will be at Schneider. Not sure if John A is back for the bulk of the schedule with Mike.

I also know that Brown's video has had audio linked up with it, contrary to one of the earlier posts. Ivy Digital Network coverage at Meehan includes commentary.
 
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder

Nothing wrong with losing to one of the best teams in the country by a goal on their ice. Especially when you outshoot them and largely dictate the play for the final two periods.

Jon Gillies is an absolute animal.
 
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder

I too was at the Mayor's Cup game at PC Saturday night. I agree with kdiff that after the first period, Brown gave the Friars a run for their money, especially defensively. The goal by Matt Lorito was a beauty, too.

On the whole, though, the start to the 2013-14 hockey season has left me feeling aggravated and sour. WHY are we satisfied with simply staying in the game? (on those occasions we do) Where is the depth we've been waiting for? Right now, we're playing our first line to the point of exhaustion. This has gone on for years. We are glaringly thin on talent -- or if that's false, we're thin on good coaching. What else can we conclude? I am very tired of the endless excuses -- We played really well even if we didn't win, we have a lot of young players who haven't jelled as a unit yet, we're still waiting for a firecracker goalie, yadda yadda.

Until Brown decides its marquee sports are worth investing in -- and the rewards can be enormous in terms of reputation, student engagement, and alumni pride and giving -- we are going to continue bumbling along. We will be that mediocre team that occasionally surprises a nationally ranked opponent by upsetting them but more often crushes the hopes of its supporters, weekend after weekend.

If we can't be competitive in the dinky little ECAC and in the Ivy League, what's the point? Why bring young players here year after year to endure below-.500 seasons and play in front of a 2/3-empty home rink? Where is the promotion and marketing effort to get students and local alumni, faculty and employees back into Meehan? Why is the band not at EVERY hockey game when classes are in session?

I have seen the revitalized PC rink and the exciting PC men's hockey program. It's tempting for a local... Would it be more fun to watch a team backed by its college in every way, a team that can win on any given night and most often does? Alumni loyalties aside, what do YOU think would be more enjoyable? And if I feel this way, after decades of devotion and, alas, martyrdom as a diehard Brown hockey fan, what does that say about our program?

Darth B.
 
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder

DarthBruno said:
I too was at the Mayor's Cup game at PC Saturday night. I agree with kdiff that after the first period, Brown gave the Friars a run for their money, especially defensively. The goal by Matt Lorito was a beauty, too.

On the whole, though, the start to the 2013-14 hockey season has left me feeling aggravated and sour. WHY are we satisfied with simply staying in the game? (on those occasions we do) Where is the depth we've been waiting for? Right now, we're playing our first line to the point of exhaustion. This has gone on for years. We are glaringly thin on talent -- or if that's false, we're thin on good coaching. What else can we conclude? I am very tired of the endless excuses -- We played really well even if we didn't win, we have a lot of young players who haven't jelled as a unit yet, we're still waiting for a firecracker goalie, yadda yadda.

Until Brown decides its marquee sports are worth investing in -- and the rewards can be enormous in terms of reputation, student engagement, and alumni pride and giving -- we are going to continue bumbling along. We will be that mediocre team that occasionally surprises a nationally ranked opponent by upsetting them but more often crushes the hopes of its supporters, weekend after weekend.

If we can't be competitive in the dinky little ECAC and in the Ivy League, what's the point? Why bring young players here year after year to endure below-.500 seasons and play in front of a 2/3-empty home rink? Where is the promotion and marketing effort to get students and local alumni, faculty and employees back into Meehan? Why is the band not at EVERY hockey game when classes are in session?

I have seen the revitalized PC rink and the exciting PC men's hockey program. It's tempting for a local... Would it be more fun to watch a team backed by its college in every way, a team that can win on any given night and most often does? Alumni loyalties aside, what do YOU think would be more enjoyable? And if I feel this way, after decades of devotion and, alas, martyrdom as a diehard Brown hockey fan, what does that say about our program?

Darth B.
Click to expand...

Stop shooting from the hip! To say that this program is "bumbling along" or isn't competitive is far from the truth. The 2012-13 team won sixteen games and was two goals away from qualifying for the national tournament. During the first four seasons since Brendan Whittet was hired Brown is 11-9 in the ECAC playoffs with a third place finish in 2010 and a second place finish in 2013. Most of the current season is still to be played, and Brown has been known for a stronger second half.

Rest assured that the coaching staff and the players are NOT satisfied with "staying in the game." This may have been your reading of kdiff's well-intentioned assessment--kdiff is one of the most loyal and supportive fans of the Brown program--but it doesn't reflect the attitude of the players and the coaching staff.

I'm not looking for excuses and neither are the coaching staff and the Brown players, but, without going into details, there are several players on this squad who, if they didn't have the kind of heart that they do, would be in the trainer's room on Friday and Saturday nights rather than on the ice. This is an issue over which the coaching staff doesn't have control.

Brown has one of the shortest rosters in the league this year, with only fourteen forwards and eight defensemen in addition to the three goaltenders. The current sophomore class is down to four players--Naclerio, Lappin, Pfeil and Prescott--all of whom are very capable performers, and at least two of them (Naclerio and Lappin) are way ahead of schedule in terms of their development. Just picture what this class would look like if promising defenseman Nate Widman hadn't had a season-ending injury in his first ECAC game as a freshman (and then decided to leave school, not because he wasn't doing well--I guarantee that he was doing quite well--but for reasons that can't be discussed here), and Kevin and Derrick Roy had not broken their commitment to Brown. It was never part of Brendan Whittet's plan to have four players remaining as sophomores from the outstanding recruiting class of 2016, but the coaching staff is dealing with this issue as well as they can.

There's quite a bit of talent in the class of 2017. It'll start to show very soon as the young players become more comfortable with the college game and find their niche.

Rebuilding the Brown program and rebuilding the PC program are two entirely different things. There are many prospects that Brown can't recruit or must stop recruiting because they won't make through the admissions office. Brown has competed quite successfully within the relatively small pool of Ivy League-acceptable players it has to work with. I won't discuss recruits, but even cursory research on the Internet should leave no doubt that the program is moving in the right direction in that respect. PC has much more flexibility in its admissions. No hate mail, please, unless, like me, you've taught and advised hockey players at both schools.

The band is not at every game because they don't want to. They're not obligated to be at every hockey game. Students in general aren't obligated to attend sporting events just as student athletes aren't obligated to attend an orchestra performance or a dance show. Brown has many different communities. With very few exceptions, most schools that do well in terms of attendance, including Yale, rely on community, not student support.

I'll be happy to continue this discussion off this list.
 
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Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder

To be fair to the current team, every game we've lost has been against a very good opponent. Clarkson, Quinnipiac, Cornell, and Providence are all in the top 20 (QU and PC are top five). St. Lawrence is one of the first teams out of the top 20. And Colgate has been good lately, though that was a game we probably should have won. Past failures of Grillo-era teams should not fall on Whittet's lap, though obviously it's frustrating that we haven't truly started to be successful under Whittet yet.
 
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder

Euler18 said:
Most of the current season is still to be played, and Brown has been known for a stronger second half.
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This is true -- we've had some exciting post-New Year's results in recent years; even in the Grillo years this happened. Already looking forward to the home stretch!

Euler18 said:
I'm not looking for excuses and neither are the coaching staff and the Brown players...
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Respectfully, I'd point out that the rest of your message IS about excuses. We can call them "reasons," but to Brown's fan base (the cohort that doesn't have your access or involvement with the players and coahces) they still sound like excuses.

Euler18 said:
Rebuilding the Brown program and rebuilding the PC program are two entirely different things.
Click to expand...

All of us appreciate the recruiting challenges faced by Ivy schools. But explain Yale and, to some extent, Dartmouth. Both are hockey programs at fellow Ivies that have achieved winning records over the years.

Euler18 said:
The band is not at every game because they don't want to. They're not obligated to be at every hockey game. Students in general aren't obligated to attend sporting events ...
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Of course not. But a winning program increases student attendance because it generates excitement and interest. And why does the band NOT want to attend all games? Call me an old fogey, but in the 60s and 70s, the band lived for hockey games and never missed one. They played enthusiastically at each break (which the current band fails to do) and helped fill Meehan with crowd noise. But - ahh! - the teams in the 60s and 70s were always competitive, the Ivy rivalries heated (Cornell games were SRO back then), and student/band interest was perpetuated by the excitement of knowing we could always win, we might qualify not only for the ECACs but for the NCAAs, etc.

Euler18 said:
With very few exceptions, most schools that do well in terms of attendance, including Yale, rely on community, not student support.
Click to expand...

I would argue that student support is critical to generating buzz and making others want to attend. Cornell... RPI... Union... There are many examples of ECAC teams whose rinks are full on home-game nights -- with students, not just community and season ticket holders. (I wonder how many season ticket holders Brown has at present.)

I think we all want the same thing: a viable, championship-worthy Division 1 hockey program that is good for the players, the league and Brown's profile and reputation beyond College Hill. That we don't have such a program after so many coaches and years of "wait til next year's class develops" is not the fault of the players or the coaches. The finger points directly at the lack of interest and support at the highest levels of Brown's administration. Our new AD needs to advocate his head off for more funding (look how the responsibility for varsity programs was diverted to the Sports Foundation instead of funded from the general operating budget in recent decades), more leadership presence at games, and more exciting marketing to students -- incentives (prizes, handouts), BDH ads, outreach to the Greek organizations to rally attendance as a regular part of their weekend fun, outreach to the band leadership perhaps by band alumni who remember better times and a more proactive band.

Still ever true,
Darth
 
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder

DarthBruno said:
Call me an old fogey, but in the 60s and 70s, the band lived for hockey games and never missed one. They played enthusiastically at each break (which the current band fails to do) and helped fill Meehan with crowd noise. But - ahh! - the teams in the 60s and 70s were always competitive, the Ivy rivalries heated (Cornell games were SRO back then), and student/band interest was perpetuated by the excitement of knowing we could always win, we might qualify not only for the ECACs but for the NCAAs, etc.
Click to expand...

I'd never call you an old fogey, because then I'd have to call myself an old fogey -- we're about the same age! :-)

I also remember the great student support for the hockey team, including band participation, in the 1970s. But student life was different then and Providence didn't have much to offer. The hockey team was supported even when it wasn't very good, as was the case in 1973 and 1974 -- sorry to say it, Darth... (The great 1974 freshman team, with Bill Gilligan, Bob MacIntosh, Kevin McCabe, etc., probably could have beaten the varsity.) Going to hockey games was THE thing to do early on Saturday evenings -- the warmup for the later parties.

Anyway, this program has made great strides over the past four years and will continue to improve. The season is young. The Bears still have at least twenty-one games to play (including playoffs) -- and hopefully more. They'll be all right.
 
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder

academic_index said:
How many regular contributors to the Brown forum are there?
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A dozen? 20?


To the above conversation, I felt a knee-jerk frustration with kdiff's post, reading his intent as "it was good enough to be in games." Recalling Mike Martin's post-game presser with PC, he commented that, despite being in the game, "we're in it to win games, not just to show up." My guess is that's the feeling of most of us, and certainly the coaches and the players. So I eventually let my frustration subside in favor of a more thoughtful post leading into Harvard and Dartmouth this weekend.

I hesitate to call these must-wins, but I'd say that there is a little pressure to claim three points, certainly two this weekend, or face a steep climb into the home ice conversation come February. I do think the break is coming at a good time, and that this team has tackled adversity well. Health has hardly been 100%, and the learning curve for the younger players has resulted in the Bears' immediate need for them to have an impact.

Positives, as I see them, coming off a four-game losing streak:

- Depth in the freshman class, should it stay healthy. I like what I saw of Doane and Kramer against PC. Kramer lit up one of the PC skaters with a good, clean hit. Pryzbek has been a little inconsistent, but Coach Whittet can lean on both Pryzbek and Middleton on the PK and in key spots. Neither has made an egregious mistake that has cost the team a goal, at least that I've seen.

- Matt Wahl. He's playing far better than he did last year. He made a mistake jumping up into the offensive third that led to PC's last goal, but those sort of risks sometimes are taken. Defensively, he's been solid, has pretty much stayed out of the box, and has been one of the steadier guys on the blue line.

- Lorito-Naclerio-Lappin. As a line, they're second-to-none. They work well together, Lorito has far more zip and confidence on the wing (seemingly), and skate incredibly well as a cohort.

Disappointments (which I will keep to a minimum):
- Lorito-Naclerio-Lappin. Having one line that can score is not a good thing.

- The senior class, in general. I keep waiting for one of them to have a breakout game, for Hathaway to have one of his signature hits, for Hourihan to have a two-goal night, for Dennis Robertson not to take a penalty that ends a power-play. (Yes, Dennis is scoring some points and is playing pretty well, but he's spent more than his fair share of time in the sin bin).

- No clear-cut #1 in net. Steel has won games, Marco has the better numbers. Marco had two tough rebounds turn into Friar goals, and has had a propensity toward at least one mistake in each game. (Oddly, I thought him best against Quinnipiac).

- Special teams. College hockey is a special teams game. While the PK unit struggled mightily at the onset of the year and has improved of late, you really want to see that number up around 85-90%, and we're down in the 80% range - which is 5th in the league, I understand. (Dartmouth, who didn't allow a power play goal until January of last year, is somehow down at 70%). The Power Play is 6/43.


All of that said, I like this team, but it seems like it is still a work in progress and trying to fashion an identity. There is hardly a guy on this team that makes me cringe when he is on the ice - not something I have always been able to say about Brown hockey - and there is, no doubt, heart, as evinced by the play against PC, Clarkson, SLU, the third @ Colgate, and the opening weekend. So I'd like to look at Harvard and Dartmouth with guarded optimism, but will refrain from getting too far ahead of myself on a team that is three games below .500 and in dire need of conference points.
 
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder

BrunoFan- I agree we can't settle for being in games anymore, but when it's the #4 team in the country...I'm not going to be too upset if we don't pull it off despite a good effort. If we're talking about (most) ECAC opponents, then I wouldn't feel the same way.
 
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder

kdiff77 said:
BrunoFan- I agree we can't settle for being in games anymore, but when it's the #4 team in the country...I'm not going to be too upset if we don't pull it off despite a good effort. If we're talking about (most) ECAC opponents, then I wouldn't feel the same way.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree. I think what bugs me about the PC game (much like the basketball game) is that I could probably isolate 2-3 mistakes that turn that from a 3-2 loss to a 3-1 win. But those are the breaks of the game!
 
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder

BrunoFan00 said:
I tend to agree. I think what bugs me about the PC game (much like the basketball game) is that I could probably isolate 2-3 mistakes that turn that from a 3-2 loss to a 3-1 win. But those are the breaks of the game!
Click to expand...

Yep. If Marco controls his rebound into the corner on the first goal, it's an easy clear for the defender. If Wahl doesn't ill-advisedly commit to pinching on that goal in the third, it's still a 2-1 game and Brown has momentum. If Jon Gillies isn't the best goalie in the country, Brown probably has four or five goals instead of just two. PC didn't play nearly as well as they could have, but it was still evident that they are a terrific team. However, on Saturday night, Brown could have walked out of Schneider with a win if just one or two bounces went the other way.

Too bad. Time to regroup, and get four points this weekend against an enigmatic Harvard side and a frustrated Dartmouth team.
 
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder

kdiff77 said:
Too bad. Time to regroup, and get four points this weekend against an enigmatic Harvard side and a frustrated Dartmouth team.
Click to expand...

Looking forward to the two games this weekend. Hate to say it but this weekend is a critical one for this team. It has a month of games behind it and there shouldn't be claims that they are still getting used to one another. Two losses would be a killer. Hopefully, everything falls into place. I saw the improvement from SLU to Colgate (at least last 30 minutes), lots of players playing well, and Hathaway is ready to break out. But as Kdiff said back in October, if not earlier, solid goaltending is the key to a successful season. Whether it is DeFilippo or Steele, one of them must have a lights-out game.

I am getting together with a classmate before the game. Is Meeting Street still a good place to grab a bite before the game?
 
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder

Mike Hutter said:
Looking forward to the two games this weekend. Hate to say it but this weekend is a critical one for this team. It has a month of games behind it and there shouldn't be claims that they are still getting used to one another. Two losses would be a killer. Hopefully, everything falls into place. I saw the improvement from SLU to Colgate (at least last 30 minutes), lots of players playing well, and Hathaway is ready to break out. But as Kdiff said back in October, if not earlier, solid goaltending is the key to a successful season. Whether it is DeFilippo or Steele, one of them must have a lights-out game.

I am getting together with a classmate before the game. Is Meeting Street still a good place to grab a bite before the game?
Click to expand...

Meeting Street for sure. If you want to venture a little further down Hope Street, the Hope Street Cafe has good food and a bar. Spats is also an option. Depending on what time I get out of work, and what the traffic looks like, I may be eating post-game.

Safe travels!
 
Re: Brown Hockey 2013-2014 - Climbing to the Top of the ECAC Ladder

kdiff77 said:
If Marco controls his rebound into the corner on the first goal, it's an easy clear for the defender. If Wahl doesn't ill-advisedly commit to pinching on that goal in the third, it's still a 2-1 game and Brown has momentum. If Jon Gillies isn't the best goalie in the country, Brown probably has four or five goals instead of just two. ... Brown could have walked out of Schneider with a win if just one or two bounces went the other way.
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Sounds iffy to me.

:rolleyes:

I'll be there this weekend cheering the guys on with the rest of you, of course.

Darth
 
DarthBruno said:
Sounds iffy to me.

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Good job! You've deciphered my point!

IF Brown had made those plays, we probably would have won. But we didn't. So we didn't win.

The point is, those plays CAN (and arguably should) be made. It's a matter of executing and catching the bounces, neither of which Brown did. But te fact that we were in position to benefit from a lucky bounce shows the team CAN compete. And by compete, I mean win.
 
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