Boston University 2018-2019 - Still Alive!

[Lemonade]

Re: Boston University 2018-2019 - Still Alive!

That was kind of my point. If this is the way most recruits perceive it, we're in more trouble than just our program not being in a "good state;" namely, it's not going to turn around anytime soon.

Right now the coaching rankings in Hockey East:
1. PC
2. UMass
3. Northeastern
4. BC
5. UML
6. BU
7. UNH
8. UConn
9. Merrimack
10. Vermont
11. Maine

 

[chickod]

Re: Boston University 2018-2019 - Still Alive!

Right now the coaching rankings in Hockey East:
1. PC
2. UMass
3. Northeastern
4. BC
5. UML
6. BU
7. UNH
8. UConn
9. Merrimack
10. Vermont
11. Maine

Well, that closely aligns with the standings so I don't think it's particularly insightful. I wasn't referring to a team's "record" as an indicator of its recruiting prowess. I was looking for something deeper, i.e. is there some "issue" going on behind the scenes that is driving people away from BU?

In other words, when did we go from "That's the place you want to go if you want to make it in the NHL" (just look at all the plaques in Agganis) to "Don't go there...you'll have a much better chance to get to the NHL if you play for [insert name here] University."

Let me be even more "pointed." Pearl and Eklund were both on the Harvard staff. Yet he chose to go somewhere else? Am I reading too much into this?

 

[Lemonade]

Re: Boston University 2018-2019 - Still Alive!

Well, that closely aligns with the standings so I don't think it's particularly insightful. I wasn't referring to a team's "record" as an indicator of its recruiting prowess. I was looking for something deeper, i.e. is there some "issue" going on behind the scenes that is driving people away from BU?

In other words, when did we go from "That's the place you want to go if you want to make it in the NHL" (just look at all the plaques in Agganis) to "Don't go there...you'll have a much better chance to get to the NHL if you play for [insert name here] University."

Let me be even more "pointed." Pearl and Eklund were both on the Harvard staff. Yet he chose to go somewhere else? Am I reading too much into this?

My ranking was strictly on coaching staff and their current status. A few years ago I would have had Norm Bazin number 1 overall...so I guess it does go along with the success of the program. Right now Umass is the cool place to play but I think that changes with Makar leaves. I dont think UMASS will sustain its success. Providence has been solid and very successful with Leaman. IMO, I think Leaman goes to the NHL someday and the sooner the better. NU has had recent success and despite what some forecasted had another good season despite departures. BC has York and thats a draw. The rest of the teams are all in the same bunch - I am not sure that Albie, Souza, Gendron, Borek, etc. are a huge draw when recruiting.

I think you have certainly have valid concerns with regards to the mass exodus of players and now missing out on Lackey. There are two versions I am hearing - one is these players were leaving anyways and its positive for BU that they are developing players that are going pro.

The other version I am hearing that I believe is more truth is not very promising - players werent happy with coaching this season, didnt have fun and and wanted out. Where there is smoke there is fire. The fact that 5 players left (some early), hockey ops left, lots of negativity surrounding team, etc.

 

[chickod]

Re: Boston University 2018-2019 - Still Alive!

The other version I am hearing that I believe is more truth is not very promising - players werent happy with coaching this season, didnt have fun and and wanted out. Where there is smoke there is fire. The fact that 5 players left (some early), hockey ops left, lots of negativity surrounding team, etc.

Troubling...especially because we were sold the idea that Albie has "paid his dues" and "deserves" the position. So it makes one wonder, since he has been on the staff all these years, what changed when he became head coach?

 

[Lemonade]

Re: Boston University 2018-2019 - Still Alive!

Troubling...especially because we were sold the idea that Albie has "paid his dues" and "deserves" the position. So it makes one wonder, since he has been on the staff all these years, what changed when he became head coach?

I am right there with you - I was pulling for Albie as well. He seemed really well liked with players and support staff prior to being named head coach and recruited those players.

Losing games doesnt help I am sure with morale either but other than that it seems something is causing some strife within the program currently. Maybe its just first year stuff - coach wants to implement his own style and ways of doing things....just grasping at this point.

 

[SMW_Bu21]

Re: Boston University 2018-2019 - Still Alive!

The other version I am hearing that I believe is more truth is not very promising - players werent happy with coaching this season, didnt have fun and and wanted out. Where there is smoke there is fire. The fact that 5 players left (some early), hockey ops left, lots of negativity surrounding team, etc.

I may be the eternal optimist, but I harbor some skepticism with this perspective. Of the departures, Bowers and Farabee were the only ones of real concern to me (the early departures). With Krys, Oettinger, and Fabbro all completing their degrees this summer, their departures are reasonable to my mind.

However, even with the Farabee departure, Farabee was a first round pick and finished the season strong.

I wonder how much of the “negativity surrounding the team” is really of our own making. While the Bowers departure is concerning, especially following a regression in his sophomore season, one player (two if you count Farabee) leaving earlier than anticipated without a strong reason plus one person moving on from their job in hockey ops doesn’t necessarily scream fire to me.

 

[chickod]

Re: Boston University 2018-2019 - Still Alive!

I wonder how much of the “negativity surrounding the team” is really of our own making. While the Bowers departure is concerning, especially following a regression in his sophomore season, one player (two if you count Farabee) leaving earlier than anticipated without a strong reason plus one person moving on from their job in hockey ops doesn’t necessarily scream fire to me.

Small camp fire?

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: Boston University 2018-2019 - Still Alive!

I think we all can agree there's a reasonable level of concern surrounding the program given this year's results and a large amount of roster turnover. That said, concern is just that, concern. Not the sky is falling. The upcoming season will be very telling.

Also, the staff clearly expected a large amount of roster turnover given the number of players who were recruited to come in this fall prior to these departures. I think we can include Farabee and Bowers in the category of departures the staff planned for.

I don't think the Lackey decision is indicative of much at all.

 

[defkit]

Re: Boston University 2018-2019 - Still Alive!

I don't think the Lackey decision is indicative of much at all.

I agree. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that at this point in time, PC is in a better place than BU. That doesn't mean the program is in shambles. For a player that is making a 1-year commitment, what matters is where the programs are right now. And PC is two games away from their second national title in 5 years.

While I do think that there is cause for at least a little pause (more due to what I have heard than what I have seen in terms of departures), I feel that it is fixable and I am hopeful that we will rebound next season. If none of the recruits for the fall change their minds, that will certainly be a good thing.

The TSN rankings that came out today of the top 15 have Zegras at #8. Somewhere I saw mention that our class currently ranked #2. So reason for optimism.

 

[Rogie21]

Re: Boston University 2018-2019 - Still Alive!

he TSN rankings that came out today of the top 15 have Zegras at #8. Somewhere I saw mention that our class currently ranked #2. So reason for optimism.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NTDP?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NTDP</a>: Here is an example of how resilient these NTDP kids are. C Trevor Zegras (Ranked No. 4) gets hammered into the boards. Instead of looking for a call or feeling sorry for himself, he bounces back up and scores a highlight-reel goal. <a href="https://t.co/gm8wx1jdxh">pic.twitter.com/gm8wx1jdxh</a></p>— Steve Kournianos (@TheDraftAnalyst) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheDraftAnalyst/status/1109427790988935168?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 23, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> He'll need to produce from the get-go next season.

 

[Sean Pickett]

Re: Boston University 2018-2019 - Still Alive!

Right now the coaching rankings in Hockey East:
1. PC
2. UMass
3. Northeastern
4. BC
5. UML
6. BU
7. UNH
8. UConn
9. Merrimack
10. Vermont
11. Maine

I have compiled every Hockey East team's season-by season record as well as the season-by-season coaching record of every HE head coach who's first season was 1984 or later (so no Coaches Ceglarski, Parker, Flaman, Holt, Riley or Stirling) for their first eight (if they lasted that long) seasons. I also compiled the combined seasonal results for every school over the past 5 and 10 seasons, plus all-time HE records. I likewise compiled each coaches combined records over their first eight or less seasons. Because three teams had first year head coaches and Coach Carvel is in just his third season the combined 5 year results can't be used for BU, UNH, MC and UMass. However, the overall standings for the past five seasons are:

Providence	199	123	55	21	0.671
Boston U.       197	111	65	21	0.617
UMass Lowell	193	109	65	19	0.614
Northeastern	192	106	66	20	0.604
Boston College	195	104	73	18	0.579
Vermont	        190	79	89	22	0.474
New Hampshire	189	67	94	28	0.429
Maine	        187	66	100	21	0.409
Massachusetts	186	71	105	10	0.409
Merrimack	185	63	98	24	0.405
Connecticut	178	60	95	23	0.402

So, based on this it appears that Coach Leaman is indeed the best, but Coach Bazin probably should be second and Coach Madagan third, Coach York fourth, Coach Sneddon fifth, Coach Gendron sixth, and Coach Cavanaugh last, with Coaches O'Connell, Souza, Borak and Carvel getting incomplete. From what I have seen Coach Carvel looks like he will be a top level coach, but I really want to see how he does next season. That said, if you look at how each Coach has done over their first eight seasons compared to each other Coach Carvel is ninth out 27 coaches after three seasons so if I had to grade him I would probably put him third ahead of Coach Madagan.

The team records also show that BU has been one of the best Hockey East teams (1st, 2nd or 3rd) overall, regular season, league play, HE tournament, NCAA tournament and overall postseason, with their only weak spot regular season non-conference games. Anyone interested can view the spreadsheet for themselves.

As for players departing early, Here are the numbers of arley signings I counted on College Hockey, Inc.'s pro-signings pages for 2012-19. I have included BU's totals, as well as other team's with 5+ players leaving early and all freshman, sophomore and juniors from every team.
2012
BU 3
all Fr 0
all So 12
all Jr 19
total 31
2013
BU 1
MN 5
all Fr 2
all So 6
all Jr 23
total 31
2014
BU 0
all Fr 2
all So 8
all Jr 20
total 30
2015
BU 2
all Fr 6
all So 3
all Jr 24
total 33
2016
BU 0
BC 7
MI 5
UND 5
all Fr 4
all So 8
all Jr 32
total 49
2017
BU 4
all Fr 7
all So 16
all Jr 19
total 42
2018
BU 2
DU 5
all Fr 3
all So 8
all Jr 22
total 32
2019*
BU 5
all Fr 3
all So 4
all Jr 19
total 26

* does not show Shane Bowers as signed so I don't know if it is otherwise accurate. Bowers is included in the total.

Sean

 

[Lemonade]

Re: Boston University 2018-2019 - Still Alive!

I have compiled every Hockey East team's season-by season record as well as the season-by-season coaching record of every HE head coach who's first season was 1984 or later (so no Coaches Ceglarski, Parker, Flaman, Holt, Riley or Stirling) for their first eight (if they lasted that long) seasons. I also compiled the combined seasonal results for every school over the past 5 and 10 seasons, plus all-time HE records. I likewise compiled each coaches combined records over their first eight or less seasons. Because three teams has first year head coaches and Coach Carvel is in just his third season the combined 5 year results can't be used for BU, UNH, MC and UMass. However, the overall standings for the past five seasons are:

Providence	199	123	55	21	0.671
Boston U.       197	111	65	21	0.617
UMass Lowell	193	109	65	19	0.614
Northeastern	192	106	66	20	0.604
Boston College	195	104	73	18	0.579
Vermont	        190	79	89	22	0.474
New Hampshire	189	67	94	28	0.429
Maine	        187	66	100	21	0.409
Massachusetts	186	71	105	10	0.409
Merrimack	185	63	98	24	0.405
Connecticut	178	60	95	23	0.402

So, based on this it appears that Coach Leaman is indeed the best, but Coach Bazin probably should be second and Coach Madagan third, Coach York fourth, Coach Sneddon fifth, Coach Gendron sixth, and Coach Cavanaugh last, with Coaches O'Connell, Souza, Borak and Carvel getting incomplete. From what I have seen Coach Carvel looks like he will be a top level coach, but I really want to see how he does next season. That said, if you look at how each Coach has done over their first eight seasons compared to each other Coach Carvel is ninth out 27 coaches so if I had to grade him I would probably put him third ahead of Coach Madagan.

The team records also show that BU has been one of the best Hockey East teams (1st, 2nd or 3rd) overall, regular season, league play, HE tournament, NCAA tournament and overall postseason, with their only weak spot regular season non-conference games. Anyone interested can view the spreadsheet for themselves.

As for players departing early, Here are the numbers of arley signings I counted on College Hockey, Inc.'s pro-signings pages for 2012-19. I have included BU's totals, as well as other team's with 5+ players leaving early and all freshman, sophomore and juniors from every team.
2012
BU 3
all Fr 0
all So 12
all Jr 19
total 31
2013
BU 1
MN 5
all Fr 2
all So 6
all Jr 23
total 31
2014
BU 0
all Fr 2
all So 8
all Jr 20
total 30
2015
BU 2
all Fr 6
all So 3
all Jr 24
total 33
2016
BU 0
BC 7
MI 5
UND 5
all Fr 4
all So 8
all Jr 32
total 49
2017
BU 4
all Fr 7
all So 16
all Jr 19
total 42
2018
BU 2
DU 5
all Fr 3
all So 8
all Jr 22
total 32
2019*
BU 5
all Fr 3
all So 4
all Jr 19
total 26

* does not show Shane Bowers as signed so I don't know if it is otherwise accurate. Bowers is included in the total.

Sean

Good stuff! I seriously dont understand how Nate Leaman isnt in the NHL. He is built to coach that level.

 

[RENCEB]

Re: Boston University 2018-2019 - Still Alive!

.....Somewhere I saw mention that our class currently ranked #2. So reason for optimism.

I think that may be NEUTRAL ZONE? I was really surprised to see Merrimack rated 7th, and wonder if that is due to quantity of recruits or quality of recruits.

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: Boston University 2018-2019 - Still Alive!

Good stuff! I seriously dont understand how Nate Leaman isnt in the NHL. He is built to coach that level.

I think there's a very small number of jobs that he would seriously consider taking, and apparently none have opened up. The Bruins come to mind immediately, but of course that job doesn't appear that it'll be open anytime soon.

 

[TheRevengeance]

I think that may be NEUTRAL ZONE? I was really surprised to see Merrimack rated 7th, and wonder if that is due to quantity of recruits or quality of recruits.

Neutral Zone's rankings are famously biased towards quantity. UConn had the #1 class last summer for example and it got them nowhere fast, although it did turn out to be a pretty good group with Vomacka, Iskhakov, Kondelik, and 10 defensemen.

 

[Rover]

Re: Boston University 2018-2019 - Still Alive!

I think there's a very small number of jobs that he would seriously consider taking, and apparently none have opened up. The Bruins come to mind immediately, but of course that job doesn't appear that it'll be open anytime soon.

Maybe, but people thought that about Quinn too. If somebody throws a 5 year, 12M guaranteed deal at Leaman's feet the dude is going to take it unless he's completely insane. No offense to the City Of Buddy Cianci but he ain't making 12M bucks in 5 years coaching college hockey.

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: Boston University 2018-2019 - Still Alive!

Maybe, but people thought that about Quinn too. If somebody throws a 5 year, 12M guaranteed deal at Leaman's feet the dude is going to take it unless he's completely insane. No offense to the City Of Buddy Cianci but he ain't making 12M bucks in 5 years coaching college hockey.

Right, and I would think that if Leaman got the same offer that Quinn got last year, he'd very likely take it. A big-market Original 6 team throwing $12M guaranteed, I'd be shocked if Leaman didn't accept. That NYR job and the Bruins one I floated would be two that fall in the "very small number of jobs" category. Also don't forget that DQ also turned down at least one prior offer from NYR as well.

 

[Rogie21]

Re: Boston University 2018-2019 - Still Alive!

Right, and I would think that if Leaman got the same offer that Quinn got last year, he'd very likely take it. A big-market Original 6 team throwing $12M guaranteed, I'd be shocked if Leaman didn't accept. That NYR job and the Bruins one I floated would be two that fall in the "very small number of jobs" category. Also don't forget that DQ also turned down at least one prior offer from NYR as well.

Gotta think that Buffalo with GM Jason Botterill and assistant GM Steve Greeley will be inquiring about Leaman's interest.

 

[The Zlax45]

Re: Boston University 2018-2019 - Still Alive!

Gotta think that Buffalo with GM Jason Botterill and assistant GM Steve Greeley will be inquiring about Leaman's interest.

You got to wonder how much PC associate HC Ron Rolston's experience as Head Coach with the Sabres will hurt that....

 

[chickod]

Re: Boston University 2018-2019 - Still Alive!

I agree. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that at this point in time, PC is in a better place than BU.

Crap. No wonder I didn't get it. I majored in rocket science but changed my major...