Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

[chickod]

Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

Ya "no talent" is hyperbole. But one coach is getting the most out of their talent right now. The other coach, as is usually the case, is not.

I also think the difference (besides the coaching) is that BC had better balance during their run. MANY (I didn't say "all") of their top players stayed more than one year. This brought continuity and stability to the program. We don't seem to have that here. Honestly I don't know why for sure (but I have a good idea). It could just be a sign of the times and it's more evident at BU recently because they are always being picked to finish high due to their "top" recruiting classes. So does this mean that BU has brought in more "selfish" players that are only looking to get to the NHL and that BC brought in more "team" players? I don't know. If the roles were reversed TODAY (not eight years ago) and BC had the top recruiting class, would THOSE players stay longer than one year? My guess is no, only because I don't know how you assess that about someone when you are recruiting them, and times have changed, even since a few years ago.

I think we live in an immediate gratification society and people don't feel the need to "wait" to earn what they feel they "deserve." And why should they? We have not taught them that "hard work pays off." We have taught them that if you are a "star" you WILL get the money. So why should they stick around to "prove themselves" when they get drafted at two years old and are essentially guaranteed big money anyway? Why should they risk a career-ending injury when their payday is right around the corner? Seriously.

The problem at BU (as I have stated ad nauseum for about three years now) is that they don't recruit enough of the grinders to balance out their program; players that will stay longer and provide some leadership and continuity over time. I just shake my head at the continuous comments about how people "Can't understand why they are lazy" or "There is no chemistry" when the REASON for this has been repeated over and over. Everyone continues to cite the '09 team but doesn't seem to make the connection that these recent teams are everything that team was NOT. I don't have the answer to "Is DQ a good coach?" Because I think you need the "right" combination of leadership, experience and talent before you can accurately make that assessment. And regarding the comments that he is a "great recruiter," is he? Shouldn't a great recruiter RECOGNIZE that you need BALANCE and not just go after every top player who he KNOWS is going to leave after one year?

I DO fear for the future of the program (as was previously stated) if these issues go unaddressed. As for the person who said (and I paraphrase) "Well, these things go in cycles and the program will come back," well, NO. Things don't happen "by themselves." The law of averages doesn't apply to EVERYTHING. There'a a REASON the Cleveland Browns stink every year...

 

[QUAlum2004]

Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

I also think the difference (besides the coaching) is that BC had better balance during their run. MANY (I didn't say "all") of their top players stayed more than one year. This brought continuity and stability to the program. We don't seem to have that here. Honestly I don't know why for sure (but I have a good idea). It could just be a sign of the times and it's more evident at BU recently because they are always being picked to finish high due to their "top" recruiting classes. So does this mean that BU has brought in more "selfish" players that are only looking to get to the NHL and that BC brought in more "team" players? I don't know. If the roles were reversed TODAY (not eight years ago) and BC had the top recruiting class, would THOSE players stay longer than one year? My guess is no, only because I don't know how you assess that about someone when you are recruiting them, and times have changed, even since a few years ago.

I think we live in an immediate gratification society and people don't feel the need to "wait" to earn what they feel they "deserve." And why should they? We have not taught them that "hard work pays off." We have taught them that if you are a "star" you WILL get the money. So why should they stick around to "prove themselves" when they get drafted at two years old and are essentially guaranteed big money anyway? Why should they risk a career-ending injury when their payday is right around the corner? Seriously.

The problem at BU (as I have stated ad nauseum for about three years now) is that they don't recruit enough of the grinders to balance out their program; players that will stay longer and provide some leadership and continuity over time. I just shake my head at the continuous comments about how people "Can't understand why they are lazy" or "There is no chemistry" when the REASON for this has been repeated over and over. Everyone continues to cite the '09 team but doesn't seem to make the connection that these recent teams are everything that team was NOT. I don't have the answer to "Is DQ a good coach?" Because I think you need the "right" combination of leadership, experience and talent before you can accurately make that assessment. And regarding the comments that he is a "great recruiter," is he? Shouldn't a great recruiter RECOGNIZE that you need BALANCE and not just go after every top player who he KNOWS is going to leave after one year?

I DO fear for the future of the program (as was previously stated) if these issues go unaddressed. As for the person who said (and I paraphrase) "Well, these things go in cycles and the program will come back," well, NO. Things don't happen "by themselves." The law of averages doesn't apply to EVERYTHING. There'a a REASON the Cleveland Browns stink every year...

Having more good 4 year players supplemented by the high impact players would change a lot for BU. They are relying way too much on guys that are staying 1-2 years at most when they need to focus on getting more talented 4 year guys into the mix.

 

[chickod]

Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

Having more good 4 year players supplemented by the high impact players would change a lot for BU. They are relying way too much on guys that are staying 1-2 years at most when they need to focus on getting more talented 4 year guys into the mix.

Well, obviously I agree. My point was does the coaching staff REALIZE this? I would think the TOUGHEST part of recruiting (getting the TOP players) would be the most difficult, but they clearly have that covered. It's no different than a manager at your job building a "team." If you get all the SAME type of people then you become one-dimensional. Diversity and well-roundedness is usually advantageous. It really makes me wonder if they are "selling" the program (as many have speculated) as "This is your best ticket to the NHL." Because, from a fan's perspective, I'm not interested in that. If anyone is wondering why attendance is down (at least here), THAT'S the #1 reason at least as far as I'm concerned. I'm not interested in becoming an NHL farm team. And if that's what they want, don't expect any loyalty from the fans. I can go watch the Providence Bruins if that's what I care to see. And for those who say, "Well that's the way it is today; you just have to accept it." NO I DON'T. There are many other schools in Hockey East alone who DON'T employ that philosophy. And I don't see them behind us in the standings.

 

[DLG]

Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

Having more good 4 year players supplemented by the high impact players would change a lot for BU. They are relying way too much on guys that are staying 1-2 years at most when they need to focus on getting more talented 4 year guys into the mix.

Curry, Cloonan, Chabot, Phelps, Difley, Olsson upperclassmen (4 year projects) who are older and didn't improve
Even projected early departures like Hickey/Mcleod have not improved
Cockerill,Crone, freshmen who will stay 4 years

Could argue of projected 4 year players only Harper and Bobo have stepped up

 

[BU Fan 84]

Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

I wouldn't say no talent but it is average for a BC team. Don't forget, BC didn't qualify for the NCAA last year but we didn't demand York be fired.

I think every program has its up and down years, so I'm not sure why you think DQ should be fired after being in the NCAAs last year and a good season last year.

The problem is you lost some really talented freshmen from last year and guys like McAvoy early.

BC had the same problem losing a ton of talent from that season 2 years ago.

So I'm not sure if DQ is the problem for BUs slow start this year. It is just hard to keep that continuity from year to year when you lose talent like that.

I'm not happy that BC is not as good as we're used to but I accept it that this is part of hockey and you just have to be patient and rebuild from year to year if necessary.

Sure, I would agree with you if my issue with Quinn was related to the results the team has gotten this year. Unfortunately, my issues with him have extended back 2 and now 1/3 seasons. I vehemently disagree with Quinn's offensive scheme. I can go into it in detail if you want, but I have posted last year a couple times about my specific issues. The other issue is inconsistency from one night to the next. That has been an issue for three seasons. Last weekend was the perfect example - Friday at NU they looked like they were a high school hockey team. The next night they looked like a top 15 college hockey team - very solid, pretty decent performance, UNH never had a chance to win that game. How can you go from nonexistent to pretty good one night to the next, weekend after weekend after weekend, for three years? And no, it is not youth - the 15-16 team had a pretty big (and good!) senior class. At this point, as I believe BrassBonanza said, it is a David Quinn trademark. Incidentally, there is also a late season, February-ish DQ-patented swoon year after year that I am not particularly looking forward to with this team this season.

The fact that this stuff is an issue year after year makes me think there is an issue with the coaching. Either the players don't get his offense, the players are incapable of executing his offense, Quinn can't teach his offense, or Quinn's offense isn't any good. Based on what he has said to me and how he has described it, I think the players are doing what he wants them to. This team in particular may need to get used to it a little more and move the puck faster, but they are doing what he wants as he described it to us, at least. Again, I can go into the details if you really want me to, ha.

I should add that you might look back to last season and see a team that lost in OT one game before the Frozen Four and scoring 3.3 or 3.4 goals per game. Ok, that isn't bad ... except if you consider the offensive talent level on the team. They should have been up around 4.0 per game and probably would have been in the Frozen Four as a result. You really have to have watched the team last season (and this year) to see the issues with the offense. We score very few goals in-system. Most of the time last year, it was Keller or JFK making individual plays using their pure talent/skill rather than working in-system because nothing was happening in-system; a great recent example would be the two goals Bobo scored at home against UConn, which represented our entire offense in that game. To put it succinctly, Quinn's offense takes incredibly talented, fast, skilled players and has them play a possession-based offense that requires them to dump the puck deep, get it in the corners or behind the net, cycle endlessly, keep the puck to the outside, keep it along the boards, push it back up to the point for defensemen to take shots from the point. We have way too much talent on these past few teams to playing a conservative old school offense like this. That works for the 03-04 ten win BU team from my freshman year that was comprised of 4th line grinders. These guys under Quinn should be running and gunning, proper space between players, slinging the puck around the ice. I mean, we routinely have all three forwards with the puck a couple feet away from each other, all below the goal line. The defense can cover them with one or two guys. That leaves three or four guys to block the net so when we get the puck to a d-man on the blue line, there's no shooting lane to the net.

I just don't know if Quinn recognizes the real issues, and even if he is capable of recognizing them, is he capable of making changes? Is he interested in making changes? It's been three years now and nothing has changed. And this is why I think we need a coaching change - it's been three years with no changes, what makes any of us think there will be changes in the future?

 

[BU Fan 84]

Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

BCeagle, I should also add that the best this year's team has looked was in the first game of the season. We played fast and loose, and it was like wave after wave after wave coming at Union, pinning them back in their zone. It was great to see and it looked like we were good and tough to play against. This was what, 19 hours into the season? The more practice time Quinn has had with the team, the worse they've gotten. That's not a good sign for a coaching staff.

 

[BU Fan 84]

Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

Also, as BrassBonanza has said several times, the lineup roulette has got to stop. It's like Quinn is sabotaging himself. My reaction to the lineup every night is usually "What. The. !%#$@@#$^" And as I believe it was Friend of BU Hockey pointed out a week or so ago, we don't even have forwards with right and left shots in the correct positions. Seriously. What the **** man. I would extend that complaint to the defensemen, as well. They are always flipped, which makes it very difficult to get accurate shots on net (which is very bad since shots from the blue line comprise a majority of our offense).

 

[BCeagle]

BCeagle, I should also add that the best this year's team has looked was in the first game of the season. We played fast and loose, and it was like wave after wave after wave coming at Union, pinning them back in their zone. It was great to see and it looked like we were good and tough to play against. This was what, 19 hours into the season? The more practice time Quinn has had with the team, the worse they've gotten. That's not a good sign for a coaching staff.

I think I want to see a balance in my opinion. I watch BC play within their system which has its drawbacks too besides advantages.

I watch BC control the puck and pass back and forth all the time but I want to see them shoot more and play with a little more instinct to shoot. Often their shots are blocked and deflected because they take too long to shoot or just take terrible shots that have no chance of going in.

At times, it takes them forever to get a shot on goal in their system. If when you’re limited on offense, you need to get shots on net ASAP and look for rebounds.

I say that because BC is not a come from behind team with their limited offensive talent. Against top teams this season like DU and St. Cloud etc. you need to not only control the puck but score to stay in the game. You can't score if you don't shoot the puck.

Often I feel BC spends too much time passing up good shots on net by making another pass that ends up with no shot on goal and the opposing team starts an odd man rush into the BC zone after intercepting a BC pass.

BC has a tendency to regroup and organize too much in their zone and the problem starts when they cough the puck up from good forechecking which leads to goals and opportunities for the opposing team.

Last night I saw them do that again which led to a UNH goal.

On the pp they’re into their system too much sometimes that they get no shots on goal or just a couple of shots and it ends up they kill their own power play by taking too long to organize rushes and get shots on net.

 

[WolverineofTerrier]

Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

But that's what worries me. Given the trend towards academics at the expense of athletics (not that they have to be mutually exclusive), I don't have a lot of confidence that once it goes South it can ever be the same again. Not sure the commitment is there. To me it's more sad than embarrassing. Something is only embarrassing when people make enough effort to be good and fall short. This is more like just "fading away." I'm not even sure anybody in the administration really is losing any sleep over hockey. And if I'm wrong about that, somebody please enlighten me. We all saw what happened with football.

On the other hand, this could be a glass half-empty viewpoint. But in order for that to be proven wrong, "someone" needs to address the issues. I'm not really sure that anybody is "willing" to do that. It's the elephant in the room that nobody seems to want to talk about and I think we all know what I'm referring to. If you're not too sure and/or would like an opinion from an "objective" non-invested source, go read a few recent post-game posts on the Maine thread...

(apparently it's very cold up at Alfond...but nice coat...)

I mean BU made that pretty clear when they joined the Patriot League and decided to focus on CTE research after disbanding the football team which will, in their eyes, hopefully kill/dent college football to gain a competitive advantage for prospective students, or so a cynic like may ponder. A college landscape without sports, is a college landscape that works favorably for BU. If nothing else, it's all a happy by-product. Let's build the hockey brain bank to finish it all off.

 

[Harry Cleverly]

Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

Curry, Cloonan, Chabot, Phelps, Difley, Olsson upperclassmen (4 year projects) who are older and didn't improve
Even projected early departures like Hickey/Mcleod have not improved
Cockerill,Crone, freshmen who will stay 4 years

Could argue of projected 4 year players only Harper and Bobo have stepped up

Hickey has improved, and may have been our best player when he got hurt. He did have a sophomore swoon, but he has played well the last two years.

Diffley has played less and less each year. He had a solid freshman year.

Cockerill is going to be a good player, maybe better than that. Crone? We'll see?

Curry and Olsson are grinders, who have not improved. Phelps is no better than a defensive forward.

I still have hopes that Chabot can be a very good bottom six contributor.

 

[Harry Cleverly]

Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

Also, I can't imagine a situation where Brady Tkachuk is still on this team come January. I wouldn't be surprised to see Fabbro and Krys leave, either. If a miracle happens and Greenway is picked for the Olympic team and has a good tournament, why would he bother coming back for the last few weeks of the season.

David Quinn has really put the program in a perilous position, in my opinion. If recruits see someone like Tkachuk, a top of the top draft pick, and other top round picks (Bowers, the defensemen, etc.) play so poorly and not show any signs of improvement, and see the team as a whole **** the bed like this, what incentive do they have to want to play here? Quinn's system only works if we get the best recruiting class in the country every year because we need to replace so many players with freshmen that are so talented, they can come in and play and contribute immediately. If the recruiting dries up because players suck here and don't develop, then all we have for a team is a bare cupboard with a coach who can't coach. It really is a house of cards here. Maybe pessimistic and a little too soon but if this happens again next year ....

Could you be anymore cynical? I mean, seriously???

As for Tkachuk, he has been on the top two lines and the power play. He gets loads of ice time, and chances every night.
He hasn't produced because he either wasn't ready for the step up, or there are things like vision and using his teammates that need to be improved.

We are six weeks into a seven month season, with a very young team. Jeez.

 

[Harry Cleverly]

Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

This is not a banner year for Hockey East. Is there a really good team?
Northeastern has a solid offense, questionable defense and goaltending. Are they the best? Right now, maybe. But they are not special.
UNH got off to a good start, but have fallen back to earth.
BU, BC, Lowell, Providence all mediocre, at best.
No one is that good this year.

The frustration at BU is the Terriers should be better.

One area where I would point to the coaching ... BU is rarely ready at the start of games, and too often has had to play from behind without a cohesive offense.

 

[buoldtimer]

Two shocks in one day:

1. Federer loses in Masters tennis.

2. Cloonan sits tonight.

 

[Bomber]

Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

Is Olsson in hurtsville or mooksville?

 

[Scarlet]

Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

BU’s power play might be infinitesimally better if they could manage to win a face off at the start of it.

 

[ericredaxe]

I mean BU made that pretty clear when they joined the Patriot League and decided to focus on CTE research after disbanding the football team which will, in their eyes, hopefully kill/dent college football to gain a competitive advantage for prospective students, or so a cynic like may ponder. A college landscape without sports, is a college landscape that works favorably for BU. If nothing else, it's all a happy by-product. Let's build the hockey brain bank to finish it all off.

I’m not sure I follow the logic. Overall the patriot league was a step up from America East both athletically and also in aligning ourselves with schools “more like” BU as far as academics and admissions.

BU cut football because of money essentially, and yes, I’m sure they don’t feel bad about it given the research being done about brain injury and the affects of repeated hits to the head. Do you really think their research is part of a conspiracy to help gain an advantage for attracting students.

Not to mention that good academics and good athletics are not mutually exclusive. Across the river our rowing team is more nationally competitive than ever and is posting better academics than ever before as well.

 

[Harry Cleverly]

Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

BU’s power play might be infinitesimally better if they could manage to win a face off at the start of it.

They have been pretty good on faceoffs this year, particularly Bobo. Check the stats. At least at home they have generally been very good.

 

[chickod]

Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

Inexplicable...

 

[ericredaxe]

Inexplicable...

Youth / Maturity

 

[brassbonanza]

We not as bad