Big Ten Hockey Conference

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

I thought some/most of it was because he pulled Wisconsin out of the Showcase (?) over Thanksgiving before Penn State was announced, saying that he wanted to play OSU and "engender Big Ten ties for all" or some such thing. Maybe he already knew Penn State was coming at that point.

The desired effect for ending the showcase was to start including OSU on the non-con schedule more and to not continually bury B1G non-con games on a holiday weekend.

The formalization of the BTHC has everything to do with PSU and 6 teams and not a lot to do with anything else.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

The desired effect for ending the showcase was to start including OSU on the non-con schedule more and to not continually bury B1G non-con games on a holiday weekend.

The formalization of the BTHC has everything to do with PSU and 6 teams and not a lot to do with anything else.

Yet, the only BIG school Wisconsin played last year was Minnesota (a conference opponent) and the only BIG schools they're playing this year are Minnesota and Penn State.

No OSU on the schedule, and the BIG games UW plays are hardly more showcased than the Showcase provided.

Sorry, but I'm buying NONE of what you're selling.

 

[Tiggsy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Yet, the only BIG school Wisconsin played last year was Minnesota (a conference opponent) and the only BIG schools they're playing this year are Minnesota and Penn State.

No OSU on the schedule, and the BIG games UW plays are hardly more showcased than the Showcase provided.

Sorry, but I'm buying NONE of what you're selling.

I'm with you on this one. That very well could have been Barry's reason, but how logically you'd get to that point sounds a little strange. Eliminating the Showcase with 2 B1G opponents for a single B1G non-con series doesn't seem like the best idea to me to improve B1G connections.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Given the timing of the Penn State news relative to the decision to end the showcase, I don't think it's any surprise that what there was a massive change in course. The BTHC writing was on the wall the second Pegula pulled the trigger for Penn State. Scheduling B1G non-conference games (which would include away games) for the purpose of forging a Big Ten hockey identity doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you can just wait two seasons for the BTHC and instead use those non-conference games to ensure that you have more home games against teams that won't ask for home games in return.

That said, all of Barry's statements surrounding the final showcase had to do with getting OSU into the mix. Plus, I don't think it's a a secret to anyone that the Thanksgiving weekend wasn't exactly the best draw- and there would frequently be a lot of no-shows from season ticket holders who had other plans for that weekend.

I stand by what I said, and I also stand by the notion that the BTHC was happening independent of what anyone else said. Even if Alvarez had a 5-team BTHC in mind as his end game, actually getting it to happen was going to require a sixth team, at which point the conference was going to force their hand anyway. The notion of "Barry Alvarez: Holder of the BTHC Puppet Strings" is flat out absurd, even if it is kind of amusing for those of us who don't like him.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Given the timing of the Penn State news relative to the decision to end the showcase, I don't think it's any surprise that what there was a massive change in course. The BTHC writing was on the wall the second Pegula pulled the trigger for Penn State. Scheduling B1G non-conference games (which would include away games) for the purpose of forging a Big Ten hockey identity doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you can just wait two seasons for the BTHC and instead use those non-conference games to ensure that you have more home games against teams that won't ask for home games in return.

That said, all of Barry's statements surrounding the final showcase had to do with getting OSU into the mix. Plus, I don't think it's a a secret to anyone that the Thanksgiving weekend wasn't exactly the best draw- and there would frequently be a lot of no-shows from season ticket holders who had other plans for that weekend.

I stand by what I said, and I also stand by the notion that the BTHC was happening independent of what anyone else said. Even if Alvarez had a 5-team BTHC in mind as his end game, actually getting it to happen was going to require a sixth team, at which point the conference was going to force their hand anyway. The notion of "Barry Alvarez: Holder of the BTHC Puppet Strings" is flat out absurd, even if it is kind of amusing for those of us who don't like him.

You've contradicted yourself in your statement. First you say why schedule BIG teams now when you can wait another year, then you say the purpose of ending the showcase was to get OSU in the mix. Which is it?

Here's a hint. UW ended the Showcase (not any other school), and hasn't played OSU since. They didn't play them last year, and they aren't scheduled to play them this year. The reason they quit the Showcase certainly doesn't appear to be to get OSU into the mix.

No one is saying Barry is a "puppet master", or has all the control. We are saying he is arrogant, doesn't care about college hockey, and has been a negative influence on the sport we love. Is he the only negative influence in the BIG? Probably not. But he has been one of the most vocal. And it is my belief, with great reason, that pulling Wisconsin from the Showcase was a power play to try and persuade the other BIG hockey (most notably Minnesota) to provide no opposition to the (probably inevitable anyways) BTHC.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

I'm comfortable with everyone hating Alvarez, even if it's for made-up, silly, scapegoat, he-definitely-doesn't-have-THAT-much-power-in-the-B1G conspiracy theory reasons.

I don't like him for a whole slew of reasons (real things as opposed to fantasy) that have nothing at all to do with college hockey.

Carry on.


Again, the BTHC was inevitable as soon as PSU added the sport. End of story.

 

[UncleRay]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

You've contradicted yourself in your statement. First you say why schedule BIG teams now when you can wait another year, then you say the purpose of ending the showcase was to get OSU in the mix. Which is it?

Here's a hint. UW ended the Showcase (not any other school), and hasn't played OSU since. They didn't play them last year, and they aren't scheduled to play them this year. The reason they quit the Showcase certainly doesn't appear to be to get OSU into the mix.

No one is saying Barry is a "puppet master", or has all the control. We are saying he is arrogant, doesn't care about college hockey, and has been a negative influence on the sport we love. Is he the only negative influence in the BIG? Probably not. But he has been one of the most vocal. And it is my belief, with great reason, that pulling Wisconsin from the Showcase was a power play to try and persuade the other BIG hockey (most notably Minnesota) to provide no opposition to the (probably inevitable anyways) BTHC.

No contradiction, you've got some reading comprehension issues. The first paragraph dealt with EODS's opinion of how a rational person would view the issue. The second dealt with how he believes Barry dealt with it. An easy inference is that EODS doesn't believe Barry is rational or think things through all the way. The two views are contradictory, but since they are ascribed to different people, the post itself is not contradictory.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

I'm comfortable with everyone hating Alvarez, even if it's for made-up, silly, scapegoat, he-definitely-doesn't-have-THAT-much-power-in-the-B1G conspiracy theory reasons.

I don't like him for a whole slew of reasons (real things as opposed to fantasy) that have nothing at all to do with college hockey.

Carry on.


Again, the BTHC was inevitable as soon as PSU added the sport. End of story.

That's fine. I'm not saying he is to blame for the BTHC, but he is to blame for ending the Showcase. Think of Barry what you like, but he is not an ambassador for college hockey and has repeatedly demonstrated (via actions and words) that he has little care for the sport.

 

[Pirateasaurus]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

BTHC or not, Alvarez is definitely a turd. That's just something Wisky fans are going to have to live with and it's fine.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

No contradiction, you've got some reading comprehension issues. The first paragraph dealt with EODS's opinion of how a rational person would view the issue. The second dealt with how he believes Barry dealt with it. An easy inference is that EODS doesn't believe Barry is rational or think things through all the way. The two views are contradictory, but since they are ascribed to different people, the post itself is not contradictory.

Fair enough. The contradiction is barry's then because I don't believe for a minute his intentions were EVER to "get OSU more involved". He may have said that publicly, but he has shown zero effort to play OSU since. And i think the whole "Barry just doesn't think things thru" bit is an even bigger load.

So, if EODS or anyone else thinks Barry is an arrogant AD who cares little for college hockey, and many of his actions and words have demonstrated this, then we are in complete agreement. Otherwise, you are just as full of it.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Fair enough. The contradiction is barry's then because I don't believe for a minute his intentions were EVER to "get OSU more involved". He may have said that publicly, but he has shown zero effort to play OSU since. And i think the whole "Barry just doesn't think things thru" bit is an even bigger load.

So, if EODS or anyone else thinks Barry is an arrogant AD who cares little for college hockey, and many of his actions and words have demonstrated this, then we are in complete agreement. Otherwise, you are just as full of it.

I don't think EODS ever defended Barry. He just said Barry isn't "THE" reason we are going to have a BTHC. You just aren't very good at comprehending what others are saying.

 

[Tiggsy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

I don't think EODS ever defended Barry. He just said Barry isn't "THE" reason we are going to have a BTHC. You just aren't very good at comprehending what others are saying.

True, but it's getting to the point where it's now a "no one picks on my little brother except me" type of argument. They all hate him too but laugh at others for hating him for reasons related to BTHC. I think most of us know change was going to happen but Barry definitely wasn't helping it go smoothly and seemed to be cheerleading for something which was very unpopular. He tried to give the snowball that was rolling slowly down the hill a big push.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

No contradiction, you've got some reading comprehension issues. The first paragraph dealt with EODS's opinion of how a rational person would view the issue. The second dealt with how he believes Barry dealt with it. An easy inference is that EODS doesn't believe Barry is rational or think things through all the way. The two views are contradictory, but since they are ascribed to different people, the post itself is not contradictory.

I wouldn't quite agree with that.

The first paragraph is what happened as a result of Penn State: BTHC on the horizon, no point in wasting non-conference games to "forge an identity" that the BTHC will establish in two years.

The second paragraph refers to things said by Barry (and assumed by pretty much everyone else) waaaaaaay back when the Showcase was axed. Let's keep in mind that, chronologically, this was before Pegula, Penn State, etc. and therefore it was all completely null and void the second that Penn State / BTHC became a reality. They only way they are contradictory is if you ignore the chronology of the Showcase ending and Penn State completely changing the landscape of everything. We'll never know if ending the Showcase would have meant more non-conference games for UW against the Michigan schools and Ohio State, because the BTHC happened relatively soon after and completely changed the game. As such, I don't really see much of a conflict there, nor do I see much relevance in the fact that UW's only B1G games since ending the Showcase have been against Minnesota for WCHA play and a bone thrown to Penn State during their first year as an independent.

People can rip on Barry for not being a hockey guy to their hearts desire. Plenty of Badger fans would agree with you. There's plenty of evidence to support that theory, such that you don't need to fake some sort of outrage over the BTHC* or killing the Showcase** to see it.

* Which was happening independent of anything he said or did about it
** Which was over-rated, under-attended, on one of the worst weekends you could pick on the schedule and was going to go away the second the BTHC happened anyway

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

True, but it's getting to the point where it's now a "no one picks on my little brother except me" type of argument. They all hate him too but laugh at others for hating him for reasons related to BTHC. I think most of us know change was going to happen but Barry definitely wasn't helping it go smoothly and seemed to be cheerleading for something which was very unpopular. He tried to give the snowball that was rolling slowly down the hill a big push.

No denying that he was shooting in his pants over the idea. I guess I never read up on what the other ADs thought of it, but it was my impression was that the only people vehemently against the idea were hockey people and hockey fans... and let's be honest, we don't have all that much pull.

I figured that the average common idiot (the kind of idiot that would care more about hockey if it weren't for all the small schools) and the ADs (who make tons of money off of the average common idiot) were the ones who would have been supporting it the most.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

True, but it's getting to the point where it's now a "no one picks on my little brother except me" type of argument. They all hate him too but laugh at others for hating him for reasons related to BTHC. I think most of us know change was going to happen but Barry definitely wasn't helping it go smoothly and seemed to be cheerleading for something which was very unpopular. He tried to give the snowball that was rolling slowly down the hill a big push.

We laugh at you for many, many more reasons than just that.

Point is, Barry had no control over the formation of a BTHC, yet some choose to specifically blame him for it.

I haven't seen anyone tell you that you can't/shouldn't hate Barry or that only we can. Hate away. He's a d-bag and was as a HC too.

 

[Tiggsy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

I haven't seen anyone tell you that you can't/shouldn't hate Barry or that only we can. Hate away. He's a d-bag and was as a HC too.

True, however...

I'm comfortable with everyone hating Alvarez, even if it's for made-up, silly, scapegoat, he-definitely-doesn't-have-THAT-much-power-in-the-B1G conspiracy theory reasons.

IMHO, the implication with that quote is clear. But I've already given Barry way more attention in this thread then he's deserved with my handful of posts. Maybe I just don't want to admit EODS could be right about our lack of collective pull in the world. We have enough idiots here that we maybe had a shot at cancelling out the other idiots out there supporting it.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

We laugh at you for many, many more reasons than just that.

Point is, Barry had no control over the formation of a BTHC, yet some choose to specifically blame him for it.

I haven't seen anyone tell you that you can't/shouldn't hate Barry or that only we can. Hate away. He's a d-bag and was as a HC too.

He may not have been able to stop it BUT he did choose to campaign for it. Maturi was the only AD to speak out against it. If most of the hockey schools had spoke out against it it may have made a difference. Barry (at least in the media) was the most vocal advocate.

I blame Penn State first and Barry second. And if you want my personal opinion I think college hockey is going to take a major step backwards in the next few years because of it. One conference with a TV Channel is not going to be enough to elevate college hockey nationally, and that one conference is doing it to the detriment of many other programs.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

And if you want my personal opinion I think college hockey is going to take a major step backwards in the next few years because of it. One conference with a TV Channel is not going to be enough to elevate college hockey nationally, and that one conference is doing it to the detriment of many other programs.

Time will tell. (Also worth noting: it's not just the BTHC, but also the NBCSN deals that might prove fruitful in years to come)

Hopefully, you're wrong.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Time will tell. (Also worth noting: it's not just the BTHC, but also the NBCSN deals that might prove fruitful in years to come)

Hopefully, you're wrong.

You mean UND/Denver's conference? They could have saved what was left after Penn State and Barry set the bomb off. Instead they made things worse.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

He may not have been able to stop it BUT he did choose to campaign for it. Maturi was the only AD to speak out against it. If most of the hockey schools had spoke out against it it may have made a difference. Barry (at least in the media) was the most vocal advocate.

Fine, but if we're going on the "AD's had some pull in this matter" premise, where were the AD's from Michigan and OSU, coz if pull is proportionate to the department that an AD represents, they would have had far more influence than ol' Barry.

My contention is that the AD's had no pull whatsoever and it wouldn't have mattered what any or all of them said. The B1G wasn't going to let any sport that qualified as a B1G conference go rogue.