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Big 10 a scapegoat?

G

gophfan

New member
I would first like to say im new to this board so hi. It seems to me that schools like NMU,BGSU and LSSU are using the new BTHC as a scapegoat. Many small schools are doing well (miami, RIT,Denver,UMD etc..) and would stilll do well if the Big TEn schools are gone. There something extremely wrong with your program if you depend on playing 3 schools to keep your program from dying.

Discuss.
 
Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

gophfan said:
I would first like to say im new to this board so hi. It seems to me that schools like NMU,BGSU and LSSU are using the new BTHC as a scapegoat. Many small schools are doing well (miami, RIT,Denver,UMD etc..) and would stilll do well if the Big TEn schools are gone. There something extremely wrong with your program if you depend on playing 3 schools to keep your program from dying.

Discuss.
Click to expand...

LOL!!!

You can't make this stuff up.

Welcome to the boards.
 
Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

Gopher fan. Hate the B1G Mistake.

College hockey is a nice mishmash. Everyone has a shot. With the B1G Mistake, you widen that gap, along with the benefit of killing other schools (LSSU, BGSU, etc). It's not only single game revenue, it's conference tourney revenue.
 
Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

Brenthoven said:
Gopher fan. Hate the B1G Mistake.

College hockey is a nice mishmash. Everyone has a shot. With the B1G Mistake, you widen that gap, along with the benefit of killing other schools (LSSU, BGSU, etc). It's not only single game revenue, it's conference tourney revenue.
Click to expand...

Badger fan. WCHA fan. I agree
 
Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

gophfan said:
I would first like to say im new to this board so hi. It seems to me that schools like NMU,BGSU and LSSU are using the new BTHC as a scapegoat. Many small schools are doing well (miami, RIT,Denver,UMD etc..) and would stilll do well if the Big TEn schools are gone. There something extremely wrong with your program if you depend on playing 3 schools to keep your program from dying.

Discuss.
Click to expand...

So, you're saying you don't need to play the other Big 12 schools?
 
Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

I dont like the idea og big ten either but you really think that these programs were going to survive anyways? Its not the BTHC fault that there programs rely on 3 schools to keep tehre program from dying.
 
Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

And the "casual" fan some commisioners are wont to attract might be less inclined to watch their team (say, LSSU) play BG. Everyone in the state of Michigan knows the big, bad University of Michigan. Some idiots don't know where Bowling Green is or that they even have a hockey team. When that conference starts up, Michigan, OSU, Minny et al will never come to your barn to play you if you're a small school. And while the small schools you mentioned are doing well, some of those are very recent developments. The others have long, storied histories.
 
Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

BGSU has been basically negleted for the past 20 years. Also schools like NMU and LSSu have been talked about for years there finiacial troubles.
 
Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

iM not a big ten fan but i just think that many of these teams are basically welfare pigs who have done very little with there programs.
 
Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

gophfan said:
iM not a big ten fan but i just think that many of these teams are basically welfare pigs who have done very little with there programs.
Click to expand...

Learn to type.

Also, sometime these schools make some strides into something big. BSU, possibly WMU, Miami for Parise's sake or Notre Dame! I'm not against growth. but if adding one team eliminates 2 or 3...how is that growth? Answer me that. With yet another conference, how is UAH supposed to survive as an independent? You think CCHA is going to crawl on its knees to beg them to join? WCHA is fine, for now, with 10 teams.

Yes, I'm rambling. However, there's so many questions to be answered that any scenario is possible, if not plausible.
 
Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

the WCHA should be fine, however the minnesota schools lose a big draw as often the best attended series is against the UMTC. The WCHA will still have, arguably, the largest draw in the country as far as visiting fans go, NorDak. No one really considers their biggest rival to be Wisconsin, I could be mistaken, but their large alumni base does increase attendance over average at many schools. Minnesota and Wisconsin are historically two of the top 5 teams in the league year in year out so it is painful to see them go, but that leaves 3-4 other teams that are strong and could make the NCAAs every year. Also even after the exodus the WCHA still has 5 teams that have won national titles, NorDak, Denver, UMD, CC, and Mich Tech, and every team but Tech is a usual NCAA tourney team. Other teams that have made the tourney recently are St. Cloud, Nebraska-Omaha, and bemidji. The only two teams that haven't made it recently are Alaska-Anchorage and Minnesota State.
The CCHA is a bit different as they will lose more than 1/4 of their league and two of those are the two biggest draws for almost every school. Historically Michigan and MSU are the two strongest teams in the league, every other team falls behind. This is of course not talking this season, but year in year out I assume they are the two teams that have the highest national profile and consistency. Also, unlike the WCHA the CCHA historically doesn't have the depth of the WCHA, as far as quality teams go. Yes recently Miami and Notre Dame have done well nationally, but I think only 5 teams in the whole conference have National titles, LSSU, MSU, Mich, Northern, and BGSU, and three of those teams have not come close to sniffing a title in years. The problem seems to be that the Michigan teams except for the two leaving have not excelled, and Ohio is not a hockey hotbed. Finally, unlike the WCHA their conference tournament does not make much money, and when it does it is due to the presence of Michigan and MSU.
 
Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

Something I posted on the No Alibis blog a little while back:

... if you were to get in touch with the cold, hard capitalist inside of you, it would only be fair to ask if it really is UWs job to prop up the smaller schools, or if it is Michigan's job to do the same to the CCHA schools. If the BTHC ends up destroying a program like Bowling Green, Minnesota State or Lake Superior State... well... who's to say that they were on stable enough grounds to last anyway? It's a harsh question, and it does divert our attention away from what a landscape-changer the BTHC will be, but isn't that a fair question to ask?
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I think the OP here might be a little off base, but he is addressing a fair question: to what extent can you really blame the B1Gs should a group schools like BGSU, FSU, LSSU, MTU, MSU-M decide to fold in the next 5-10 years? If you want to find an argument that says that the B1G schools are somehow currently taking advantage of their WCHA and CCHA brethren (sort of like what Texas does to the Big X<strike>II</strike>), then you might have something. But I don't think you'll find such an argument. Certainly not for the WCHA schools- who all get an equally portioned, decent sized payout from the Final Five.
 
ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
Something I posted on the No Alibis blog a little while back:



I think the OP here might be a little off base, but he is addressing a fair question: to what extent can you really blame the B1Gs should a group schools like BGSU, FSU, LSSU, MTU, MSU-M decide to fold in the next 5-10 years? If you want to find an argument that says that the B1G schools are somehow currently taking advantage of their WCHA and CCHA brethren (sort of like what Texas does to the Big X<strike>II</strike>), then you might have something. But I don't think you'll find such an argument. Certainly not for the WCHA schools- who all get an equally portioned, decent sized payout from the Final Five.
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Minnesota State is a program that has a decent attendance figure year in and year out for a program with a lousy coach and a below average team. Still with a terrible team this year, and a gophers squad which wasn't #1 in the country, when UMN comes to town, the building is at capacity in attendance. For a school that plays in an arena with shared revenue, losing those two games with an extra 1500 tickets sold, plus the concessions they sell, losing a high profile series at home is going to make an impact.

The best way to get gets to come to Mankato is to say hey, we play in the WCHA, the nation's best, deepest conference, where you'll play those high profile schools such as UMN and UW, and show em that when they turned you down, they'll pay the price for it. (Let's face it, we have poor facilities compared to BSU, UMN, UW, UMD, etc.)
 
Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

MavHockey14 said:
Minnesota State is a program that has a decent attendance figure year in and year out for a program with a lousy coach and a below average team. Still with a terrible team this year, and a gophers squad which wasn't #1 in the country, when UMN comes to town, the building is at capacity in attendance. For a school that plays in an arena with shared revenue, losing those two games with an extra 1500 tickets sold, plus the concessions they sell, losing a high profile series at home is going to make an impact.

The best way to get gets to come to Mankato is to say hey, we play in the WCHA, the nation's best, deepest conference, where you'll play those high profile schools such as UMN and UW, and show em that when they turned you down, they'll pay the price for it. (Let's face it, we have poor facilities compared to BSU, UMN, UW, UMD, etc.)
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I don't agree with gophfan, not by a long shot, but realistically I don't think that removing the Gophers from the schedule is going to be that hard on Mankato. Yes, those games always sell out, but historically so has the North Dakota series, the Wisconsin series, it isn't as though they're only filling seats when UofM comes to town. As I remember it Denver drew a good crowd too, as did St Cloud. It's a high profile series and its absense will definitely be felt, but in terms of interest the program has definitely been on the rise. The WCHA loses depth yes, but they also just collected another national title, this time at the expense of the one of the B10's heavy hitters. Maybe I'm just not as gloomy as you are today :D
 
Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

MavHockey14 said:
Minnesota State is a program that has a decent attendance figure year in and year out for a program with a lousy coach and a below average team. Still with a terrible team this year, and a gophers squad which wasn't #1 in the country, when UMN comes to town, the building is at capacity in attendance. For a school that plays in an arena with shared revenue, losing those two games with an extra 1500 tickets sold, plus the concessions they sell, losing a high profile series at home is going to make an impact.

The best way to get gets to come to Mankato is to say hey, we play in the WCHA, the nation's best, deepest conference, where you'll play those high profile schools such as UMN and UW, and show em that when they turned you down, they'll pay the price for it. (Let's face it, we have poor facilities compared to BSU, UMN, UW, UMD, etc.)
Click to expand...

I saw a similar comparison in relation to the CCHA schools, re: B1G attendance and how it is overblown for the rest of the conference (but can't remember what blog ran all the numbers at the moment). Point ends up, B1G schools bump attendance, but not to the level you might think. For Minnesota State as an example, consider the following:

Overall attendance average: 3711
WCHA average (including B1G) - 3872
WCHA minus B1G (2 vs. Minnesota) average: 3791
Two games vs. Minnesota average: 4359

So, 1500? Hardly - it's 568 a game. Heck, the largest crowd for the season wasn't even for a Gopher game (it was Minnesota-Duluth). And not only that, but games vs. North Dakota and BSU also drew over 4000 fans too (the UND game over 4000 drew more than the lower of the two Minn games).
 
Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

Im sorry if i came off like a doughbag . look im not a fan of the big ten either but look at a school like BGSU. They adminstriteers have basically run that program into the ground. Do you honestly think that program wouldve survived 5 years from now?
 
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