BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Inelligible Player?

[dankthetank]

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Inelligible Player?

McInchak screwed Michigan at Yost last season against Notre Dame, whistling a play dead (from 70 feet away) that resulted in a game tying goal mouth scramble goal being waived off. His partner was looking at the play from behind the net.

So yes, contrary to how most Mav fans feel towards Michigan, they do not get all of the CCHA breaks.

Who hasn't McInchak screwed over? Honestly I think he is probably the worst ref in college hockey. He is the only ref I have ever seen make a, "Contact to the Head, High Sticking, Face Off interference, tripping" call. That's right somehow you can trip a player while high sticking them during the face off. Tripping yes. High stick yes. But trip and high stick at the same time? Pretty sure that only works if the player's head is up his own ***** like McInchak's. He looked like a drunk sailor trying to land a jumbo jet on an aircraft carrier on that call.

 

[unofan]

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Ineligible Player?

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Ineligible Player?

Rule cite, please. College hockey rules strongly preferred.

Rule 5: Officials and Officiating Systems
SECTION 3. The duties of the referee are as follows:
a. Have general supervision of the game and full control of game officials
and players from the time the teams exit their dressing rooms, during the
warm-up, during the game, including any stoppages or interruptions of
play, and after the game until such time as the teams enter their dressing
rooms.
In case of any dispute, the referee may change the decision or that of
any other official, provided the change is made before play is renewed.
The referee decision is final; there is no appeal.

(emphasis added is my own)

Edit: For basketball, the rule is 2.12 Correctable Errors, and the applicable subsections are:

Art. 2. When the officials’ error as in Rule 2-12.1 is made while the game clock
is stopped, such errors must be recognized and corrected by an official during
the first dead ball after the game clock has been started properly.
Art. 3. When the officials’ error as in Rule 2-12.1.e is made while the game
clock is running and the ball becomes dead after a successful goal, it must be
recognized and corrected by an official before the second live ball.

 

[IrishHockeyFan]

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Ineligible Player?

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Ineligible Player?

There is no such thing as an appeal play in hockey. If a puck is kicked into the net by an attacking player, for example, it is "no goal" whether the opposing team suggests it to the referee or not. Unlike baseball, it never falls on the offended team to request a correct ruling from the officials in hockey.

I'll throw this out since I don't have my rule book me with or have time right now to look it up: what about goals scored using an illegal stick? Every time I have seen this scenario play out, IIRC it has been the scored-upon team who has asked for a measurement or some other ruling on the stick in question. Would this not be an "appeal" play?

 

[Alton]

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Ineligible Player?

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Ineligible Player?

I'll throw this out since I don't have my rule book me with or have time right now to look it up: what about goals scored using an illegal stick? Every time I have seen this scenario play out, IIRC it has been the scored-upon team who has asked for a measurement or some other ruling on the stick in question. Would this not be an "appeal" play?

Yep--you got me on that one. A goal scored with an illegal stick still counts as a goal, but requesting a measurement of an illegal stick is an "appeal play": Rule 3-1-d reads "When a formal complaint is made by the captain of a team about the dimensions of any stick, the referee shall make the necessary measurements immediately."

Still...my point stands. unofan correctly cites the current rule from the rule book (5-3-a), but I also want to reiterate that the committee who wrote that rule also claimed the right to reverse a referee's decision in that Nebraska-Omaha game against Colgate. Referee Mark Wilkins decided that the game should continue until a winner was determined, and it did. The game ended 6-5, and Wilkins signed the scoresheet with a 6-5 final score indicated.

Was the referee's decision final? Was there no appeal? Obviously not--the record books now say the game ended 5-5, and that goal that Wilkins allowed was wiped off the scorecard over a week after the fact. This is the important point: the committee who wrote those words quoted by unofan also saw no problem in changing the decision of a referee.

Based on that, it seems to me that the CCHA has every right to review whether the protocol was properly followed, and to take corrective action if it was not.

 

[Iwearpurple]

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Ineligible Player?

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Ineligible Player?

If the CCHA played hockey the way it should be played (No stupid shootouts), this discussion would not be taking place.

 

[MAVFANJEFF]

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Ineligible Player?

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Ineligible Player?

If the CCHA played hockey the way it should be played (No stupid shootouts), this discussion would not be taking place.

I guess it doesn't really matter. The voters have spoken.

http://www.uscho.com/rankings/?data=usatoday&week=poll

 

[NoClu]

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Ineligible Player?

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Ineligible Player?

Still...my point stands. unofan correctly cites the current rule from the rule book (5-3-a), but I also want to reiterate that the committee who wrote that rule also claimed the right to reverse a referee's decision in that Nebraska-Omaha game against Colgate. Referee Mark Wilkins decided that the game should continue until a winner was determined, and it did. The game ended 6-5, and Wilkins signed the scoresheet with a 6-5 final score indicated.

Was the referee's decision final? Was there no appeal? Obviously not--the record books now say the game ended 5-5, and that goal that Wilkins allowed was wiped off the scorecard over a week after the fact. This is the important point: the committee who wrote those words quoted by unofan also saw no problem in changing the decision of a referee.

Based on that, it seems to me that the CCHA has every right to review whether the protocol was properly followed, and to take corrective action if it was not.

Thanks for bringing this up, I had forgotten that game.

I'll also have to admit my being annoyed that BG gets the extra (only good in the CCHA) point for the shootout "win". It's an * situation to me.

Good to see the Mav's in the 10 spot (though again, early season polls don't mean anything at the end of the season).

 

[NoClu]

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Inelligible Player?

From a story in the Omaha World Herald
http://www.omaha.com/article/20091031/SPORTS03/710319745

“Our league, as a conference, does not have authority to simply overturn misjudgments or inaccurate interpretations of the rules that occur during the course of a game,” Anastos said during a World-Herald phone interview Saturday night.

Again, to refer to Alton's comments, I call BS on Anastos... You are choosing how you are dealing with the situation, ignore the situation and hope it goes away.

I hope our AD keeps pushing the issue. The story continues...

But the explanations UNO received on Saturday in dealing with the league failed to satisfy Alberts. The more he reflected on the situation, Alberts said, the more he became convinced that the CCHA has set a disturbing example.

“I think the simple question is, ‘Did an ineligible player participate in the game the other night?’” Alberts said. “You must ask that question first, and to me it’s clear cut.

“And when an ineligible player performs in a game, you have one of two choices: You either say that the team must forfeit that game and those points. Or you’re saying, essentially, that it’s OK for an ineligible player to participate as long as he doesn’t get caught within the timeframe of when the game is declared over. I think that’s a terrible precedent for a league, and I think the integrity of the league’s at stake when you make that sort of decision. I don’t know how else you look at it. You’re actually encouraging member institutions to cheat, as long as they don’t get caught before the game is declared over.”

Go Trev, Go Mav's!!!

P.S. And our AD isn't an apologetic newbe either

But even though Alberts said he’s disappointed by the “lack of leadership” shown on this issue, the A.D. said the bottom line was that the Mavs could’ve avoided the whole mess by winning a game that they clearly dominated.

“I’m not an excuse guy, and the fact we put ourselves in that position was our fault,” Alberts said. “But the point is, it happened. As the day went on, I couldn’t stop thinking about the fact that an ineligible player won the game. And that’s not what sports should be about.”

 

[Freddie]

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Inelligible Player?

I believe that much of the confusion actually began with the penalty call at 4:44 of the OT, and the fact that the numbers on BG's sweaters are tough to read...especially the "1"...which looks ALOT like a "7".

Both "21" (Jordan Samuels-Thomas) and "27" (Tommy Dee) were on the ice during the scrum that brought about the penalties. I was NOT at the game, but someone who was there told me the penalty clock actually showed "27" as the BG player penalized. When I first checked the box score on UNO's site, it showed the penalty on "27" (that was later corrected).

Did McInchak intend to call the penalty on 21 or 27? Did the linesman hear him say "27 orange" but misread the sweater and sent "21" to the box?

I believe the conference did the right thing in the end, but they didn't go far enough. The final conclusion should have included:

1. Tell McInchak he is free to spend his weekends writing speeding tickets on the Lodge Freeway instead of fouling up hockey games.
2. Order BG to get uniforms that are less gay.
3. Tell UNO to quit whining or move to another conference.

 

[Section96]

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Inelligible Player?

The final conclusion should have included:

1. Tell McInchak he is free to spend his weekends writing speeding tickets on the Lodge Freeway instead of fouling up hockey games.
2. Order BG to get uniforms that are less gay.
3. Tell UNO to quit whining or move to another conference.

Now THAT'S funny. Is whining allowed in the WCHA? Just checking.

 

[pdt1081]

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Inelligible Player?

BG didn't purposely break the rules. They simply chose who they felt were the 3 best shooters on the team and submitted the names to the refs. At that point, the rule should have been clarified to them. We see it throughout games all the time. Refs clarifying rules to coaches.

Here's a question. How many coaches, without looking it up, knew before this game that a player serving penalty time could not partake in a shootout? Obviously, I can name 2 right off the top of my head.

 

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Inelligible Player?

BG didn't purposely break the rules. They simply chose who they felt were the 3 best shooters on the team and submitted the names to the refs. At that point, the rule should have been clarified to them. We see it throughout games all the time. Refs clarifying rules to coaches.

Here's a question. How many coaches, without looking it up, knew before this game that a player serving penalty time could not partake in a shootout? Obviously, I can name 2 right off the top of my head.

Ignorance is no excuse...the BG coach should have known the shootout rules. He used an ineligible player in the shootout, therefore IMHO BG should forfeit the shootout (not the game, as it appears Alberts was suggesting).

 

[Oldetimehockey]

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Inelligible Player?

While it is a great disappointment any hockey league would resort to using shoot outs, we can all be great full that College hockey is not reliant upon polls to determining championships, and that the games are played on the ice...and in the unfortunate event of tie, a meaningless-worthless shoot out ensues.

 

[Pirateasaurus]

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Inelligible Player?

I think you guys should all just let BG have their point. They earned it and are prooooobably not gonna get many this year soooo....

 

[Hockey John]

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Inelligible Player?

Get over it Alberts and UNO,

A mistake was made which happens in any sport occasionally. Both the referees and Blais had the opportunity to catch the mistake and they did not. It sets a more dangerous precident to change the results of a game a day later. How many times over the years have a bad call nullifying a goal that should have counted happened? At least they sent a new crew to ref on Saturday. I am sure that the refs and the coaches will be more careful the remainder of the year.

Alberts was a loud mouth jerk on ESPN. I was glad he was fired there and am also glad to see him in the WCHA next year.

Go MSU, make the farewell tour get done quicker please!!!!

 

[Freddie]

Re: BGSU @ UNO Shootout Fallout - Inelligible Player?

I couldn't help but notice that NONE of the on-ice officials from that game (McInchak, Berkebile, Davis, Evers) worked any where this past weekend.

It seems to me that the simplest solution would be to just require that any player with time left to serve at the end of OT has to stay in the box untill the shootout is completed.