Wisconsin will take step back since Caufield left, Michigan has next year then a mass exodus of players (Beniers, Power, Johnson, Bordeleau), BC could be devasted if Knight/Boldy/Newhook all leave, BU lost Farrance....not only are the "blue chip" programs not making progress they are continuously reloading and staying young because of that. If you arent going to take the blue chips you need to totally cross them off the board and go for older players who are aging out of juniors because that's what working right now. There are no studs on the remaining Final Four teams they are just good players that should have graduated college 3 years ago.
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BC Eagles 2020-21 - in memory of Steve Gerrish
- Thread starter theprofromdover
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Wisconsin will take step back since Caufield left, Michigan has next year then a mass exodus of players (Beniers, Power, Johnson, Bordeleau), BC could be devasted if Knight/Boldy/Newhook all leave, BU lost Farrance....not only are the "blue chip" programs not making progress they are continuously reloading and staying young because of that. If you arent going to take the blue chips you need to totally cross them off the board and go for older players who are aging out of juniors because that's what working right now. There are no studs on the remaining Final Four teams they are just good players that should have graduated college 3 years ago.
Very difficult to build teams when the top talent stays for a year or two. That is the state of college hockey right now, you may not like it but that is the way it is.During BC's up years most of the kids stayed at least 3 years and many of them 4. They also had some kids who never fulfilled their initial commitment, Bracco, Valtrano, the Finnish kid and a few others. Now you have to assume a NHL GM role and mentality to put together a sustainable top shelf winning program. When the Red Baron was coach at Michigan, he had very high recruits every year, and then they were gone and they are no longer an elite program. There is a world of difference in college hockey from just 6-8 years ago and I don't think it is for the better.
Nick Papagiorgio
Holding court
Adapt or die.
The Zlax45
Registered User
The reason high NHL draft picks are playing college now is the caliber of play is better than 25 years ago. The NHL teams are happier with the college game when compared to the past to develop their players also.
It sucks we get one or two years of top level talent in the college game, but that is the way the pros have it.
Sean Pickett
2009 NCAA Champions
I'm no Coach York apologist, but I do find the post-season tournament titles are all that matter mindset by some posters disappointing. As pointed out Coach York has had no titles the past nine* seasons, but in that time he has 6 regular season titles that are being discounted/discarded. So, if you compare him to Coach Sandelin over that span Coach York has 6 RS titles, 6 HE semifinal appearances, 2 runners-up, 5 NCAA appearance and 2 Frozen Fours while Coach Sandelin has 5 NCHC semifinal appearances, 1 runners-up, 2 titles, 6 NCAA appearances, 4 Frozen Fours, one runners-up and 2 titles. The post-season favors Coach Sandelin, but in that time he also has no RS titles. Furthermore, if you go back over his first dozen seasons he wasn't quite as good in the post-season, with just 4 WCHA semifinals, 1 title, 4 NCAA appearances, 2 Frozen Fours, a runners-up and a title (in his 11th season). Over the same dozen seasons Coach York won 6 RS titles, 10 HE semifinals, one runners-up, 7 titles, 10 NCAA appearances, 7 Frozen Fours, 2 runners-up and 4 titles. That was an unprecedented run that apparently distorted some BC fans' concept of success. Here is a graph showing the cumulative winning percentage of Coach York at BC vs Coach Sandelin at UMD:
Coach Sandelin has had a run of NCAA tournament success, but if I go to a game to see a team win I'll take Coach York over him every time. I agree that Coach York is getting near the end of his coaching career, but he can still recruit and coach and is more than capable of winning additional post-season hardware before then.
Sean
Coach Sandelin has had a run of NCAA tournament success, but if I go to a game to see a team win I'll take Coach York over him every time. I agree that Coach York is getting near the end of his coaching career, but he can still recruit and coach and is more than capable of winning additional post-season hardware before then.
Sean
Oh, so you mean schools like BC consistently get blue-chip 18 and 19 year olds who are NHL first rounders, while schools like SCSU get older, undrafted players who have exhausted all their Junior hockey eligibility in hopes of landing a scholarship? Poor BC.
Dude, you sound like the worst sour grapes.
And don’t forget, when life hands you lemons, make... oh wait
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claver2010
*****
you realize he's not a bc fan right?
helleson is a risk beyond the big 3 but seems like colorado is happy w development at bc
Ha! Could’ve fooled me.
But it really doesn’t matter. I did say “schools like BC.” That whole age defense comes across as sour grapes every time I hear it.
Maybe when you have a bunch of 24 year old seniors on your roster they look at the potential of their last college game (and perhaps last meaningful game) a little more seriously than a 19 year old who has one foot out the door and has been told their whole life they can do no wrong on the ice? Just a thought.
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At 76 he has to be close to the end of his career, but despite negative recruiting because of his age he is still able to draw elite talent to the Heights. 12 drafted players and 3 number 1's. I think that is right. Anyhow getting players to come is not the issue as much as building a team that has the right mix of ages and talents. Umass the 3 or 4 kids who are 24 or 25 and Bazin has had success with recruiting 21 year old Freshman. The 18 yo Freshman are just not big enough or strong enough to compete right away, Newhook is an exception and so is Knight. Look at Bellow at BU, was disappointing for them, spent a few years in the minors and he is now getting ice time for the Islanders. I thought both he and Whalstrom needed more time to develop, but you can take sophomore English or you can get and up or down NHL deal for 750K. Let me think about that.
Your guess is as good as mine. In this strange year where in a lot of cases these college kids didn't get a lot of game action I think everything is on the table. McBain, Helleson...Hardman is drawing interest as an undrafted FA.
I've gotten over the other teams have older players angle. I still don't love it but it's up to other programs to adjust. The example for BC would be Mike Hardman. They need more guys like him who come in a bit older and are physically mature and able to handle their own out there. I do think that the blue chip programs are finally realizing this and starting to adjust. We'll see who is able to do it best over the next few years.
Nick Papagiorgio
Holding court
Can someone tell me where BC ranked in terms of age when they won in 2001, 2008, 2010, 2012? It's an honest question and I don't know the answer or if we can figure out how to look it up retroactively but I'll be honest, it seems like EVERY YEAR BC is in the top 5 or 10 for youngest team, often right at the top it seems like. Am I wrong here? Or is the age gap between them and others just getting more significant?
I honestly think pointing to this ignores all the other problems that are more self-inflicted.
I honestly think pointing to this ignores all the other problems that are more self-inflicted.
Collegehockeystats.net probably has that info buried deep in it. My guess is those BC teams were among the youngest in the nation as well. I think a big difference today is that the NCAA route compares more favorably to the CHL than it has at any time in the past. Where as 10 years ago, for many NCAA D1 hockey was considered the pinnacle and any level of pro hockey after that was gravy. Now NCAA is a legitimate route to the NHL. While 15-20 years ago you saw lots of D1 kids just removed from Prep School hockey, now basically most 18 or 19 year old NCAA freshman are NHL draft picks who already have a couple years of Junior or NTDP hockey under their belts.
For the record, I am a fan of BC and their historically younger rosters. But I also think there is something about the grittiness of a 21 year old freshman who has exhausted their Junior hockey eligibility and is immensely grateful to have received a scholarship and get to play 4 more years of meaningful hockey.
For the record, I am a fan of BC and their historically younger rosters. But I also think there is something about the grittiness of a 21 year old freshman who has exhausted their Junior hockey eligibility and is immensely grateful to have received a scholarship and get to play 4 more years of meaningful hockey.
Just looked it up on elite prospects. BU and BC were the two youngest teams in nation. BU with 20.79 avg age and BC with 20.26 avg age.
claver2010
*****
they're pretty much the youngest team every year (like you not sure how to research it).
the 3 years for top players + 4 year contributors though is real
% of goals from upperclassmen, looking at recent years
20-21: 32% (st. cloud curbstomp)
19-20: 55% (fauci'd)
18-19: 63% (no tournament - % is high but lowest scoring team over this stretch by a lot)
17-18: 27% (no tournament)
16-17: 39% (no tournament)
15-16: 56% (loss in FF to Qpac)
14-15: 26% (loss in 1st round to denver)
13-14: 65% (Union loss in FF)
12-13: 59% (Union flameout at Dunk)
11-12: 66% (NC)
10-11: 68% (St. Louis flameout)
09-10: 42% (NC)
07-08: 61% (NC)
Not wrong but I haven't put a lot of effort into comparing that era of college hockey compared to now and what the differences are. It's very likely that the age gap has continued to increase but I don't know for sure. Maybe we simply aren't giving enough credit to them for what they accomplished in those years. Maybe they made it look a lot easier than it should have been/was. It's not an easy thing to replicate for a 20 year period. Duluth is the new BC but Sandelin had some lean years himself before this recent run of dominance. And eventually their run will end. There are a lot of good programs out there and parity is real. That's just the reality. The last two seasons were good years coming off the NCAA tournament drought. Now, if they dip back down to missing the tournament the next couple years whatever model they are following isn't working.
If you wanna keep it regional, York should be looking to how Leaman and Carvel have run their programs. Both with two FFs from 2015 on. PC has lost some guys early and UMass lost Makar but they continue on and are now in the NCAA tournament hunt every year. That's where you wanna be. If getting back to 2008-2012 BC is impossible, try a different approach that works in today's landscape.
Stating the obvious but it is worth remembering that only 4 teams out of 58 get there every year. One of our problems is that we have been spoiled and we know what good is. As good as Bazin and Leaman are they haven't made that many FFs. Remember Union and Quinnie from just a few years ago. I agree that the coaches need to challenge their own assumptions, again one has to be like a NHL GM in building a team. College hockey has become more like a franchise business, Berkley College could decide to have a team hire a name coach and populate the roster out of this year's transfer portal and probably win a few games. The Berkley Blue Notes, I am sure the band would be fantastic
claver2010
*****
bucci is saying hardman is gone to chicago
Next few days are big one for BC...hardman, boldy, newhook and knight decisions loom large for next season.
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