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B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins
- Thread starter MGoBlueHockey
- Start date
aparch
Acetaminamerican
If there are Leaders and Legends in football... is this going to be the B1G's "Original Six?"
this expansion doesn't help hockey it helps the big ten.
Back2BackU-MnPride2002
New member
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins
4four4 --
Yes, it will probably greatly help the Big Ten.
But how does adding another team to the college hockey landscape, PSU, not help college hockey?!
How does dividing up the RICHES that were the WCHA and spreading that talent out into 3 different conferences, not help college hockey?!
The new version of the WCHA still has decent teams left in it, and they will probably thrive even more now without always being beaten down regularly by the likes of Minnesota, Wisconsin, Denver, CC, North Dakota and even SCSU and UMD. And it gets some teams from the CCHA that could thrive in that conf more than they could in the CCHA as well, not to forget Alabama-Huntsville.
The NCHC is chock full of great teams, and I'm interested, very interested to see how teams like Miami and W Mich, who are coming in from what I've always believed to be one of the weaker conferences, the CCHA, will do when they have to play basically vs former WCHA teams week in and week out.
The Big Ten will have the same dynamic, Michigan, MSU and OSU will be able to go up against 2 of the better teams in the WCHA and we'll get to see who ends up at the top on a regular basis. I believe that Minnesota and Wisconsin will regularly finish among the Top 3 teams in the conf. But I guess we'll just have to see over time what happens? But Penn St has already shown that they are going to hit the ice running come next season. They already have at least one surprising win over Wisconsin this season.
And now that there is a Big Ten Conf, with Big Ten Conf games naturally being on the Big Ten Network, other Big Ten teams like Illinois and Nebraska will be more motivated to get a team started up. The incentive wasn't there before.
If the creation of the Big Ten Hockey Conf helps to facilitate the addition of 2-4 more teams onto the college hockey scene, how is that not good for college hockey as a whole?!
4four4 --
Yes, it will probably greatly help the Big Ten.
But how does adding another team to the college hockey landscape, PSU, not help college hockey?!
How does dividing up the RICHES that were the WCHA and spreading that talent out into 3 different conferences, not help college hockey?!
The new version of the WCHA still has decent teams left in it, and they will probably thrive even more now without always being beaten down regularly by the likes of Minnesota, Wisconsin, Denver, CC, North Dakota and even SCSU and UMD. And it gets some teams from the CCHA that could thrive in that conf more than they could in the CCHA as well, not to forget Alabama-Huntsville.
The NCHC is chock full of great teams, and I'm interested, very interested to see how teams like Miami and W Mich, who are coming in from what I've always believed to be one of the weaker conferences, the CCHA, will do when they have to play basically vs former WCHA teams week in and week out.
The Big Ten will have the same dynamic, Michigan, MSU and OSU will be able to go up against 2 of the better teams in the WCHA and we'll get to see who ends up at the top on a regular basis. I believe that Minnesota and Wisconsin will regularly finish among the Top 3 teams in the conf. But I guess we'll just have to see over time what happens? But Penn St has already shown that they are going to hit the ice running come next season. They already have at least one surprising win over Wisconsin this season.
And now that there is a Big Ten Conf, with Big Ten Conf games naturally being on the Big Ten Network, other Big Ten teams like Illinois and Nebraska will be more motivated to get a team started up. The incentive wasn't there before.
If the creation of the Big Ten Hockey Conf helps to facilitate the addition of 2-4 more teams onto the college hockey scene, how is that not good for college hockey as a whole?!
Biddco
Follow me on Twitter: @Biddco
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins
Great point about Miami and Western...wonder how they will deal with the new conference.
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins
Criteria for joining the B1G TEN conference has always been, among other things, joining all sports. Now with the creation of the B1G TEN Hockey conference you've gotta think that another addition must have hockey (unless they are highly valuable for other reasons, i.e. Duke for basketball and academics). Just my thoughts on the issue...
Criteria for joining the B1G TEN conference has always been, among other things, joining all sports. Now with the creation of the B1G TEN Hockey conference you've gotta think that another addition must have hockey (unless they are highly valuable for other reasons, i.e. Duke for basketball and academics). Just my thoughts on the issue...
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins
The CCHA is weak? Huh? I'm not saying that it is an elite conference but let's look over the recent history shall we. Over the last 6 years both the CCHA and the WCHA have had one National Champion. Ok, no advantage there but also, the CCHA is not a weaker conference from that. Over that same span the WCHA has had one National runner-up, so over the last 6 years you have had 2 schools (UMD and Wisconsin) in the National Championship game. The CCHA has had their champion (michigan state) and 4 DIFFERENT runner-ups (Notre Dame, Miami, Michigan, and Ferris State). I think that means that they are pretty good. The CCHA is breaking up due to the creation of THE B1G TEN Hockey conference, simple as that. Losing three schools the size of Michigan, michigan state, and yes even the not-so-hockey-friendly ohio state will do that to a conference. From a competitive stand-point I don't think losing the B1G schools would have hurt the conference that much. However, financially it was the death blow. Not so much from ticket sales but where would the replacement schools come from? Where ever it was it would have made for an increase in travel exspenses, and for actual D-2 schools like Ferris State, Lake Superior State and Northern Michigan that is not economically feasible. Bringing in 3 schools with no history wouldn't be good for business. For Northern it actually makes sense travel-wise to join the WCHA. LSSU is about the same distance, and Ferris is also the same distance although there is now a large body of water in the way. Western Michigan thinks that they are relevant all of a sudden and I can't wait until they come crashing back to reality.
Sorry, I went a bit off tangent there but point is, the CCHA is/was a good conference. Michigan has had a very uncharacteristically like bad season this year. A year so bad that it hasn't been seen in over 20 years, but I haven't given up yet on continuing our Tournament streak.
The CCHA is weak? Huh? I'm not saying that it is an elite conference but let's look over the recent history shall we. Over the last 6 years both the CCHA and the WCHA have had one National Champion. Ok, no advantage there but also, the CCHA is not a weaker conference from that. Over that same span the WCHA has had one National runner-up, so over the last 6 years you have had 2 schools (UMD and Wisconsin) in the National Championship game. The CCHA has had their champion (michigan state) and 4 DIFFERENT runner-ups (Notre Dame, Miami, Michigan, and Ferris State). I think that means that they are pretty good. The CCHA is breaking up due to the creation of THE B1G TEN Hockey conference, simple as that. Losing three schools the size of Michigan, michigan state, and yes even the not-so-hockey-friendly ohio state will do that to a conference. From a competitive stand-point I don't think losing the B1G schools would have hurt the conference that much. However, financially it was the death blow. Not so much from ticket sales but where would the replacement schools come from? Where ever it was it would have made for an increase in travel exspenses, and for actual D-2 schools like Ferris State, Lake Superior State and Northern Michigan that is not economically feasible. Bringing in 3 schools with no history wouldn't be good for business. For Northern it actually makes sense travel-wise to join the WCHA. LSSU is about the same distance, and Ferris is also the same distance although there is now a large body of water in the way. Western Michigan thinks that they are relevant all of a sudden and I can't wait until they come crashing back to reality.
Sorry, I went a bit off tangent there but point is, the CCHA is/was a good conference. Michigan has had a very uncharacteristically like bad season this year. A year so bad that it hasn't been seen in over 20 years, but I haven't given up yet on continuing our Tournament streak.
MinnesotaNorthStar
Minding the gap
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins
The Big Ten doesn't care about hockey. The Big Ten cares about football, money, academics, and to a lesser extent basketball. They pretty much started sponsoring it because they could. Whether or not a school has a hockey program will have no bearing on if it gets invited to join or not.
wolverineTrumpet
not particularly bad
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins
To expand on this reply, you are required to play in the B1G conference if you have a varsity team in a sport which has a B1G conference. No school is required to have a varsity program for every B1G sport. For instance, Wisconsin is the only current B1G school without baseball.
And as MNS pointed out, the B1G doesn't care about hockey.
To expand on this reply, you are required to play in the B1G conference if you have a varsity team in a sport which has a B1G conference. No school is required to have a varsity program for every B1G sport. For instance, Wisconsin is the only current B1G school without baseball.
And as MNS pointed out, the B1G doesn't care about hockey.
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins
If that happens, you are correct. But that's a mighty big if IMHO. Once they see how hockey is treated by the BTN, they will have no interest. Granted BTN has improved slightly over the last few years, but not enough to spur some school to start a hockey team without a donor similar to PSU's situation.
If that happens, you are correct. But that's a mighty big if IMHO. Once they see how hockey is treated by the BTN, they will have no interest. Granted BTN has improved slightly over the last few years, but not enough to spur some school to start a hockey team without a donor similar to PSU's situation.
Back2BackU-MnPride2002
New member
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins
Tiggsy --
First of all, its not as big of an if as you think. As for the BTN's treatment of hockey? Why would they have given it a ton of attention so far? The # of matchups between Big Ten teams is, well, not many, since they didn't all play in the same conference. Interest in Michigan or Mich St hockey probably waned some this season, and actually, Wisconsin started out the season pretty badly as well, so one team having a good season is not much of a reason for the BTN to go all ga-ga over hockey.
Now put all 6 teams in the same conf, playing each other every weekend and interest will increase. Granted it will take a back seat to Basketball and there isn't a lot anyone can do about that. But interest in hockey is as high as its ever been. There are over 600 teams participating in some level of organized hockey at colleges in 49 of the 50 states. There is talk about the NHL even expanding. Didn't read the article yet, but saw the headline last night saying Crosby thinks the NHL could handle expanding to 32 teams?
Title IX has done a lot towards holding college hockey back, but with women's hockey becoming more and more popular and growing pretty significantly, that will help the growth of mens college hockey as well.
Many people around Nebraska see Div 1 hockey starting up there right around the corner. The creation of the BTHC will only serve to speed that up. And the Big Ten Network, if it thinks it can make money off of showing hockey games, will do it, so it will be as much on the shoulders of college hockey fans to go to the BTHC games and watch them on whatever channel they are on, to show the BTN that there is an interest out there. And the schools that would add Div 1 hockey, won't do it just because of the new BTN, but because they had been wanting to do it for a long time and the creation of the BTN and now the BTHC will be more of the slight pushes to put them over the edge, not so much big shoves.
Tiggsy --
First of all, its not as big of an if as you think. As for the BTN's treatment of hockey? Why would they have given it a ton of attention so far? The # of matchups between Big Ten teams is, well, not many, since they didn't all play in the same conference. Interest in Michigan or Mich St hockey probably waned some this season, and actually, Wisconsin started out the season pretty badly as well, so one team having a good season is not much of a reason for the BTN to go all ga-ga over hockey.
Now put all 6 teams in the same conf, playing each other every weekend and interest will increase. Granted it will take a back seat to Basketball and there isn't a lot anyone can do about that. But interest in hockey is as high as its ever been. There are over 600 teams participating in some level of organized hockey at colleges in 49 of the 50 states. There is talk about the NHL even expanding. Didn't read the article yet, but saw the headline last night saying Crosby thinks the NHL could handle expanding to 32 teams?
Title IX has done a lot towards holding college hockey back, but with women's hockey becoming more and more popular and growing pretty significantly, that will help the growth of mens college hockey as well.
Many people around Nebraska see Div 1 hockey starting up there right around the corner. The creation of the BTHC will only serve to speed that up. And the Big Ten Network, if it thinks it can make money off of showing hockey games, will do it, so it will be as much on the shoulders of college hockey fans to go to the BTHC games and watch them on whatever channel they are on, to show the BTN that there is an interest out there. And the schools that would add Div 1 hockey, won't do it just because of the new BTN, but because they had been wanting to do it for a long time and the creation of the BTN and now the BTHC will be more of the slight pushes to put them over the edge, not so much big shoves.
Back2BackU-MnPride2002
New member
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins
UMICH --
The criteria that a school must join all sports is only if that school already has the sport. For example, if Boston College applied for entrance into the Big Ten conf, they would have to leave their current hockey conf and join the Big Ten Hockey Conf. and refusal to do so would mean that they would not be accepted as a member of the Big Ten. But a school such as Maryland for example, did not have a Div 1 hockey team, and so they were not required to have one to be accepted into the Conf.
The only actual requirement for a school to gain acceptance into the Big Ten conf is for that school to be seen as a helpful addition to the conf.
So Nebraska's coming into the conf was not blocked last minute when they lost their AAU membership. They are still considered an addition that helped out the Conf, with football of course, and academics still, despite the AAU issue(and they'll probably regain their AAU membership upon appeal or some other proactive changes they make) and a few other sports that help the conf's image as a whole.
The top priorities for the Big Ten are schools in the AAU that increase the conferences media footprint, UNC, Virginia, Georgia Tech and Florida St. NONE of which have NCAA Div 1 hockey. Maryland and Rutgers didn't have hockey. Nor did Nebraska or Penn St. So where you get the notion that any additions will have to have hockey, is well, lol, probably more wishful thinking.
But, having said that, it would shock me if when considering schools, candidates such as Boston College wouldn't be helped by what they can bring to the BTHC. A school like UConn, does have hockey, but who cares?! They haven't been very successful, and don't have a big following. Boston College on the otherhand has been very successful and has a decent following. The prospect of seeing hockey games between Minnesota and BC or Wisconsin and BC or Michigan and BC or MSU and BC basically 2 of out of every 3 weekends, would definitely help the BTN start to show more interest in college hockey. The bigger issue is if Boston College would be willing to break from their conf ties? I think the amount of money involved would force them to do it. They could still play in the Beanpot and have ooc games vs old rivals, and overall it would probably increase the percentage of games they play that are marque matchups every year.
The NHL is the arguably the 2nd or at least the 3rd most popular sport in North America right now, with attendance at games being higher than the NBA. Not sure about the tv viewership, but when you see what NHL players are getting paid, that money is coming from somewhere. Things are improving for college hockey and the creation of the BTHC could be apart of that. I think it will be.
Hockey fans need to do their part, when there is a hockey game on the BTN, even if we are not interested in the game, we should have it on. Turn on that game and go do household chores, or something. LOL, if you hate the teams playing, scrub the toilet or something in a symbolic gesture of what you think of those teams. But if the hockey games they do have on the network get high ratings, they'll start to expand their coverage of hockey. It's all about the money, so let them think that there is money to be made.
UMICH --
The criteria that a school must join all sports is only if that school already has the sport. For example, if Boston College applied for entrance into the Big Ten conf, they would have to leave their current hockey conf and join the Big Ten Hockey Conf. and refusal to do so would mean that they would not be accepted as a member of the Big Ten. But a school such as Maryland for example, did not have a Div 1 hockey team, and so they were not required to have one to be accepted into the Conf.
The only actual requirement for a school to gain acceptance into the Big Ten conf is for that school to be seen as a helpful addition to the conf.
So Nebraska's coming into the conf was not blocked last minute when they lost their AAU membership. They are still considered an addition that helped out the Conf, with football of course, and academics still, despite the AAU issue(and they'll probably regain their AAU membership upon appeal or some other proactive changes they make) and a few other sports that help the conf's image as a whole.
The top priorities for the Big Ten are schools in the AAU that increase the conferences media footprint, UNC, Virginia, Georgia Tech and Florida St. NONE of which have NCAA Div 1 hockey. Maryland and Rutgers didn't have hockey. Nor did Nebraska or Penn St. So where you get the notion that any additions will have to have hockey, is well, lol, probably more wishful thinking.
But, having said that, it would shock me if when considering schools, candidates such as Boston College wouldn't be helped by what they can bring to the BTHC. A school like UConn, does have hockey, but who cares?! They haven't been very successful, and don't have a big following. Boston College on the otherhand has been very successful and has a decent following. The prospect of seeing hockey games between Minnesota and BC or Wisconsin and BC or Michigan and BC or MSU and BC basically 2 of out of every 3 weekends, would definitely help the BTN start to show more interest in college hockey. The bigger issue is if Boston College would be willing to break from their conf ties? I think the amount of money involved would force them to do it. They could still play in the Beanpot and have ooc games vs old rivals, and overall it would probably increase the percentage of games they play that are marque matchups every year.
The NHL is the arguably the 2nd or at least the 3rd most popular sport in North America right now, with attendance at games being higher than the NBA. Not sure about the tv viewership, but when you see what NHL players are getting paid, that money is coming from somewhere. Things are improving for college hockey and the creation of the BTHC could be apart of that. I think it will be.
Hockey fans need to do their part, when there is a hockey game on the BTN, even if we are not interested in the game, we should have it on. Turn on that game and go do household chores, or something. LOL, if you hate the teams playing, scrub the toilet or something in a symbolic gesture of what you think of those teams. But if the hockey games they do have on the network get high ratings, they'll start to expand their coverage of hockey. It's all about the money, so let them think that there is money to be made.
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins
Sorry but I still think you are giving the B1G too much credit. Most of the current B1G teams already had pretty passionate fan bases that follow them wherever they go. Given the choice I would not watch hockey on BTN if it were somewhere else like FSN. If you are right, why did it take a big doner at PSU? The school should have done that all on their own like you think other schools will do now. I just don't see it all coming together so easily. Don't get me wrong, I hope you are right so the sport continues to grow, but I think it's just as likely OSU or some of the smaller WCHA schools consider folding.
Sorry but I still think you are giving the B1G too much credit. Most of the current B1G teams already had pretty passionate fan bases that follow them wherever they go. Given the choice I would not watch hockey on BTN if it were somewhere else like FSN. If you are right, why did it take a big doner at PSU? The school should have done that all on their own like you think other schools will do now. I just don't see it all coming together so easily. Don't get me wrong, I hope you are right so the sport continues to grow, but I think it's just as likely OSU or some of the smaller WCHA schools consider folding.
Back2BackU-MnPride2002
New member
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins
UMICH --
Hey, I'm longwinded as it is, and its kind of off-topic, sort of, so I won't address my comments about the CCHA here. Or at least not right now. But remind me later and I'll tell you why I think that way. And just to let you know, its not so much a diss of Michigan as it is Michigan's conf competition.
UMICH --
Hey, I'm longwinded as it is, and its kind of off-topic, sort of, so I won't address my comments about the CCHA here. Or at least not right now. But remind me later and I'll tell you why I think that way. And just to let you know, its not so much a diss of Michigan as it is Michigan's conf competition.
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wolverineTrumpet
not particularly bad
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins
My wish is that BTN would just pick up the FSN feed and not do a darn thing to mess with it. BTN's coverage of hockey is deplorable. The announcers stay in studio and they send the token female reporter to get interviews. They confuse team names, they do little to no pregame work, but I suppose we should all be greatful that haven't interupted a live game to go to a bouncy ball press conference recently.
Back2BackU-MnPride2002
New member
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins
Tiggsy -
You might be right, but lets hope not, lol. My guess is that big donor that helped PSU move up, may have been aware that PSU moving up would force the Big Ten to start up a separate hockey conference. And there is no way on the planet the Big Ten is going to start up the BTHC, only to let OSU drop out and force them to either operate with only 5 teams or to move into another conf after they got the BTHC going. No, the Big Ten didn't do this without making a commitment to keeping the BTHC going for a good long time.
And I'm not saying the Nebraska or Illinois are going to pony up all of the cash to get their programs up to Div 1, but Nebraska for sure has some big money fans who are interested in the idea of hockey going Div 1 there, and I'd imagine that Illinois isn't completely devoid of rich alums/fans who might not be thinking about joining now that they'd be joining the BTHC, and not some other conf that their fans wouldn't know anything about.
I guess that's one of the things I see, that instead of joining the CCHA and playing Ferris St and Northern Michigan and Bowling Green, or the WCHA and playing Bemidji St and Mankato St and SCSU, they will be joining a league that plays MICHIGAN, WISCONSIN, MINNESOTA, MICHIGAN STATE, PENN STATE & OHIO STATE. Not one single unknown name among the bunch.
And I'm not dissing those unknown schools, as far as hockey goes, they've done great things, but to the new programs who would be wanting to sell their team to new fans, things like that make a big difference.
Tiggsy -
You might be right, but lets hope not, lol. My guess is that big donor that helped PSU move up, may have been aware that PSU moving up would force the Big Ten to start up a separate hockey conference. And there is no way on the planet the Big Ten is going to start up the BTHC, only to let OSU drop out and force them to either operate with only 5 teams or to move into another conf after they got the BTHC going. No, the Big Ten didn't do this without making a commitment to keeping the BTHC going for a good long time.
And I'm not saying the Nebraska or Illinois are going to pony up all of the cash to get their programs up to Div 1, but Nebraska for sure has some big money fans who are interested in the idea of hockey going Div 1 there, and I'd imagine that Illinois isn't completely devoid of rich alums/fans who might not be thinking about joining now that they'd be joining the BTHC, and not some other conf that their fans wouldn't know anything about.
I guess that's one of the things I see, that instead of joining the CCHA and playing Ferris St and Northern Michigan and Bowling Green, or the WCHA and playing Bemidji St and Mankato St and SCSU, they will be joining a league that plays MICHIGAN, WISCONSIN, MINNESOTA, MICHIGAN STATE, PENN STATE & OHIO STATE. Not one single unknown name among the bunch.
And I'm not dissing those unknown schools, as far as hockey goes, they've done great things, but to the new programs who would be wanting to sell their team to new fans, things like that make a big difference.
Cheesy McCheeser
Registered User
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins
Ped st. sure looked good when they beat the Badgers. But, it was a Monday night, goalie standing on his head, etc. That's enough excuses. They looked very competitive.
Ped st. sure looked good when they beat the Badgers. But, it was a Monday night, goalie standing on his head, etc. That's enough excuses. They looked very competitive.
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins
Are you talking about right now, as in football is not being played RIGHT NOW, so the NHL is behind NBA, college basketball and NASCAR? If you are going to say NHL, I would say that it is behind NFL, college footbal, NBA, college basketball, MLB and then we start talking NHL.
If you are going to say hockey, then I would rank them football, basketball, baseball and hockey is right there with soccer, car racing, golf etc.
Remember, this is coming from a hockey fan, for whom hockey is the number one sport, but if you are talking the entire USA, hockey is not even an automatic fourth place.
Are you talking about right now, as in football is not being played RIGHT NOW, so the NHL is behind NBA, college basketball and NASCAR? If you are going to say NHL, I would say that it is behind NFL, college footbal, NBA, college basketball, MLB and then we start talking NHL.
If you are going to say hockey, then I would rank them football, basketball, baseball and hockey is right there with soccer, car racing, golf etc.
Remember, this is coming from a hockey fan, for whom hockey is the number one sport, but if you are talking the entire USA, hockey is not even an automatic fourth place.
Back2BackU-MnPride2002
New member
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins
bluevox --
Actually, I'll admit that I was only looking at the #s for professional sports, ie NFL, MLB, NBA, MLS and considered all of North America, or at least the US and Canada, and did not even consider NASCAR.
The reason I did not consider NASCAR, is, well, there is no NCAA equivalent to NASCAR, unless you want to consider Solar Raycing the equivalent?! lol
And professionally, I guess my argument is its AS BIG as the NBA(technically just a hair bigger), and bigger than MLS, at least in US and Canada.
But my main argument is that it is the 3rd most popular sport collegiately. Cfb and Cbb obviously are #1 and #2, but college hockey attendance blows away any other college sport out there, and if you figure in ACHA teams, then it has to come close to matching most sports in sheer participation #s, with over 600 teams playing either NCAA or ACHA hockey.
bluevox --
Actually, I'll admit that I was only looking at the #s for professional sports, ie NFL, MLB, NBA, MLS and considered all of North America, or at least the US and Canada, and did not even consider NASCAR.
The reason I did not consider NASCAR, is, well, there is no NCAA equivalent to NASCAR, unless you want to consider Solar Raycing the equivalent?! lol
And professionally, I guess my argument is its AS BIG as the NBA(technically just a hair bigger), and bigger than MLS, at least in US and Canada.
But my main argument is that it is the 3rd most popular sport collegiately. Cfb and Cbb obviously are #1 and #2, but college hockey attendance blows away any other college sport out there, and if you figure in ACHA teams, then it has to come close to matching most sports in sheer participation #s, with over 600 teams playing either NCAA or ACHA hockey.