What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Augustana University pursuing D1 hockey

Northern Sun Hockey Conference confirmed

(2013 eat your heart out)

In all seriousness though, fantastic if true. Would really make Moorhead wonder if they should’ve pulled the trigger a decade ago.
 
Last edited:
As much as it sucks to think of UAA, UAH, RMU and possibly UAF disappearing in such short order… it’s amazing to think that we’ll still have come out ahead in terms of number of programs in the last decade.

The timespan where we lost Fairfield, Findlay, Iona and Wayne State probably feels similar, but I think the landscape still came out ahead in that same time frame as well.

Of course, the recent losses are IMO <much> worse in terms of the size of the fanbases bad scope of the history of the teams, but… the sport has been here before.
 
ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
Northern Sun Hockey Conference confirmed

(2013 eat your heart out)

In all seriousness though, fantastic if true. Would really make Moorhead wonder if they should’ve pulled the trigger a decade ago.
Click to expand...

The problem with Augustana is they're waiting for a D1 conference invite so they can move up from D2. The Summit League snubbed them in favor of St. Thomas. So while I would welcome Augie to the hockey fraternity, I'm not holding my breath.
 
njmav1 said:
The problem with Augustana is they're waiting for a D1 conference invite so they can move up from D2. The Summit League snubbed them in favor of St. Thomas. So while I would welcome Augie to the hockey fraternity, I'm not holding my breath.
Click to expand...

Is there a reason Augustana couldn't play Division I hockey while remaining Division II in other sports? Most of the WCHA consists of such schools.
 
Augustana confirms it’s true. They plan to “officially” announce it late summer or early fall. It’s unclear what they’re still sorting out. Hopefully it’s not additional funding.

https://goaugie.com/news/2021/6/16/...-augustana-university-on-mens-ice-hockey.aspx


“The university plans to add a men's hockey program that would compete at the NCAA Division I level. The addition of such a program will be the first of its kind in the state, and will be game-changing for Augustana and Sioux Falls as one of just over 60 schools in the country offering Division I men's hockey.

Augustana is grateful to T. Denny Sanford for the lead gift to facilitate this extraordinary opportunity.

The university plans to share more information later this summer or early fall as more details for the new athletics program are finalized.”
 
1) isn't the moratorium on playing up in one sport still a thing? 2) perhaps they found a different DI conference besides the Summit to take them in? 3) them + Lindenwood would round out the CCHA without increasing travel too greatly. 4) LIU last year, Auggie this. Illinois is a joke. These tiny schools seem to be able to $#!+ rather than get off the pot. Meanwhile, the Illini are still constipated as ever...
 
moose97 said:
1) isn't the moratorium on playing up in one sport still a thing? 2) perhaps they found a different DI conference besides the Summit to take them in? 3) them + Lindenwood would round out the CCHA without increasing travel too greatly. 4) LIU last year, Auggie this. Illinois has become a joke. These tiny schools seem to be able to $#!+ rather than get off the pot. Meanwhile, the Illini are still constipated as ever...
Click to expand...

1.) If there is no championship offered in your division and sport, you can play up one division. As there is no D-II hockey championship, any D-II school starting a hockey team can play D-I.

2.) Unlikely? Who else would want them?

3.) That's what I was thinking.

4.) I wouldn't put LIU, Illinois, and Augie on the same pot. It seems like Augie is going to actually spend money and support a D-I program. LIU is running a D-III operation that is D-I in name only. Illinois could do that in a second, but if you are looking to make a $100M investment it takes some time. Augie's money seems to be coming from a single source, so that is a quicker process, too.
 
AMC said:
1.) If there is no championship offered in your division and sport, you can play up one division. As there is no D-II hockey championship, any D-II school starting a hockey team can play D-I.
Click to expand...

But there WAS a moratorium. Shortly after AHA(MAAC) and the CHA dumped a bunch of new DII teams into DI, it was shut down for a while. I didn't remember if or when said moratorium was lifted.
 
I would also like to point out that the article on the front page of USCHO is incorrect. The article states: "To facilitate the addition of Division I men’s ice hockey, Augustana will need to elevate all of its athletics program to Division I."

However, in the NCAA Division I manual, Bylaw 20.8.2, we find:

"20.8.2 Division II Options When No Division II Championship is Conducted. An active member institution that holds membership in Division II is eligible to compete in the Division I championship in those sports for which no championship is conducted in Division II. The Division II institution shall declare its intention to compete by June 1. This declaration of intent shall be effective for a minimum of three years.

20.8.2.1 Participation in Division I Championship. To be eligible for the Division I championship in such a sport, the Division II member institution is required to meet all Division I institutional and eligibility requirements and may use Division I financial aid limitations in that sport as permitted under Bylaw 20.9.1.1."

Not only can Augustana and Lindenwood start hockey programs, they can join D-I, AND they can give the full complement of scholarships.
 
moose97 said:
But there WAS a moratorium. Shortly after AHA(MAAC) and the CHA dumped a bunch of new DII teams into DI, it was shut down for a while. I didn't remember if or when said moratorium was lifted.
Click to expand...

The moratorium does still exist, but the lack of a D-II championship creates an exception to the moratorium. Essentially, for men's ice hockey, it's a moratorium on D-III's.

20.4.1 Multidivision Classification. A member of Division II or Division III may have a sport classified in Division I, provided the sport was so classified during the 2010-11 academic year. Such a classification shall continue until the institution fails to conduct the sport in Division I in any subsequent academic year.

The only other exception is 20.4.1.1. which lets a D-II or D-III taking advantage of 20.4.1 (ie grandfathered move up prior to 2010) move up a single sport of the opposite gender. RIT used this to move up women's hockey.
 
I think the important distinction is that Augustana is technically viewed by the NCAA as Division II programs. Because there is no Division II championship, the Division II programs can play in the Division I hockey championship. Augustana would not be creating a Division I program. It would be creating a Division II program that is eligible for the Division I championship.
 
AMC said:
Augustana would not be creating a Division I program. It would be creating a Division II program that is eligible for the Division I championship.
Click to expand...
As you already pointed out it would be a DI program, as it would have to follow all DI requirements.

On the women's side it's different, as the NCAA has an open championship. However, I have been told all the DII schools with teams in the NEWHA have used 20.8.2 and declared they will compete as DI teams under DI requirements.

Sean
 
Sean Pickett said:
As you already pointed out it would be a DI program, as it would have to follow all DI requirements.

On the women's side it's different, as the NCAA has an open championship. However, I have been told all the DII schools with teams in the NEWHA have used 20.8.2 and declared they will compete as DI teams under DI requirements.

Sean
Click to expand...

It's called the "National Collegiate Championship." I've argued for years that it makes sense for men's hockey too, but for some reason, it's just never been done that way...
 
Sean Pickett said:
As you already pointed out it would be a DI program, as it would have to follow all DI requirements.

On the women's side it's different, as the NCAA has an open championship. However, I have been told all the DII schools with teams in the NEWHA have used 20.8.2 and declared they will compete as DI teams under DI requirements.

Sean
Click to expand...

I think there is a distinction, albeit an academic one, between what Augustana would be doing, and say, St. Cloud State.

Augustana is establishing a Division II program, which is then eligible for the Division I championship pursuant to 20.8.2 and 20.8.2.1. And, yes, Augustana would then be required to follow all D-I requirements.

St. Cloud, and Bemidji, and all the other D-II schools that established programs prior to 2010, are playing Division I hockey pursuant to 20.4.1. Their men's hockey programs are classified as Division I sports and must follow all Division I requirements as a D-I program.

I think the difference is largely academic as long as there is not a D-II championship. If a D-II championship sprang into being, any school like Augustana making use of 20.8.2 would lose the ability to participate in the D-I championship. The schools who established themselves as Division I in hockey under 20.4.1 prior to the 2010-11 academic year could theoretically continue to participate in the D-I championship as D-I classified programs. Until that time, yes, all of them can compete for the D-I championship and must follow D-I rules.

Interestingly, 20.4.1 says that any school failing to conduct the sport in Division I in any subsequent academic year loses their ability to use 20.4.1. A few schools didn't participate in 2020-21. I assume that they received a waiver? If not, the D-II schools have the 20.8.2 workaround if they need it (Alaska is the only one coming back, apparently, but if UAH takes a year off next year and then resurrects their program they will become a 20.8.2 school regardless). But for RPI and Union that waiver is important. If they don't have 20.4.1, they don't have any access to Division I hockey.
 
As I have always understood it, technically - the NE10 conference and its 7 DII playing members could elevate to DI and play. Augustana want to be an associate member of the NE10?
 
moose97 said:
Your discussion of RPI & Union is irrelevant to this DII discussion as they are DIII institutions. They are governened by Proposition 65 https://www.hockeysfuture.com/articl..._i_privileges/
https://www.collegehockeynews.com/ne...npresident.php
Click to expand...

This is going to get even more complicated, I apologize in advance to everyone this is putting to sleep.

Proposition 65 was essentially a ballot initiative asking the D-III membership whether the Division III NCAA manual should be amended. Proposition 65 would have amended the D-III manual's Bylaw 20.7.1.1.1 only. That section is the waiver that permits the 8 "1982 exception" schools to offer scholarships in their Division I sports. Basically, by winning the Prop 65 vote, RPI, SLU, etc. were still allowed by D-III to give scholarships. If they had lost that vote, they would have still been allowed to use the Division I manual's 20.4.1 rule to play D-I, but could no longer have offered scholarships. Union was actually not affected in any way because that waiver only applied to those that offered athletic scholarships, which Union does not and cannot.

For D-III schools, they need to be allowed by D-I to play a D-I sport. The D-I manual does that in 20.4.1. They also need to be allowed to play in D-I by D-III. And, if they want to give scholarships, they need to be allowed to do that by D-III. That's what 20.7.1.1.1 of the D-III manual does, and that's what the big vote was about in 2004.

Think of it like the D-III schools are citizens of China. China requires you to have an exit visa if you leave the country. The United States (D-I) could offer you a visa to come and visit (or play hockey). But, if China (D-III) does not give you an exit visa (waiver of D-III rules), the United States visa does no good.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top