Atlantic Hockey Summer News

[kingdobbs]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

So not only do the better teams in the east definitely get the regular season scheduling advantage but it would appear (based on the coaches poll predictions) that the tournament schedule works to help the teams in the east as well because it guarantees that there is equal number of teams represented out of each scheduling pod, regardless of relative strength. At least the better teams (based on RS) would get home ice advantage here. However, it seems terribly wrong that a team that is tied for 4th best in the league gets to play one tough game and is gone (NU or RoMo) while a team that ends the RS in 10th place (Bentley) plays the 11th place team for the right to go on to play in the best of three series.

I know the above is hypothetical ... I find it really hard to believe that the six teams in the West would actually end up in the top six spots in the league in RS points, given the scheduling advantage during the RS for the better East teams. While the six West teams may in fact be the best six in the league, it probably will not be reflected in the point standings.

It's a little wonky, yes, because the assumption thus far for this season is that the clearly delineated "West" group will all be better on the ice than the "East" group. I would not expect this to continue from year to year, or even guarantee it to hold true as 2010-11 progresses.

In theory, the effect of the relative weakness of one pod to the other should be minimal, as there is only a differential of three games (and thus six points) between what a team plays within its pod and what a team plays cross-pod. If the pods were more insular, (say, instead of playing each team cross-pod twice, you drop that to once for 6 games, and play one more against your own pod for 20 games), perhaps the benefit of an "easier" pod will give the top teams in that pod a boost in the standings, but if one pod is clearly better than the other, it should under the current scheduling be reflected in the overall standings. A good team in the weaker pod should still finish outside of the top 4 unless they also do well in their cross-pod games.

Honestly, basing the playoffs on informal divisions seems to be a kludge the league is using to balance itself with the assumption that the West pod will be dominant, and I'm not sure it will continue to be warranted in the future.

 

[jtwcornell91]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Wait, so someone can get a bye into the quarterfinals, and then play on the road? And someone else can have two home playoff weekends in a row? That's a pretty silly system.

 

[Patman]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Wait, so someone can get a bye into the quarterfinals, and then play on the road? And someone else can have two home playoff weekends in a row? That's a pretty silly system.

they're trying to avoid sending multiple teams long distances for the "first round"... part of me thinks this is a nod to the weaker teams still playing from the "cost containment" perspective... the opening round is a single game and not a best-of-3.

 

[komey1]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

IMO, this is the silliest playoff structure. Why not just call it divisions and get it over with? That's what they are - only not called that.

I get the idea of cost containment - because otherwise some of these team could not play at the DI level. There are better ways to do it in the playoffs.

 

[sunylong]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

I would hate to see the tie-breaker structure!

 

[schiegs]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Why not just call it divisions and get it over with? That's what they are - only not called that.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[schiegs]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Honestly, basing the playoffs on informal divisions seems to be a kludge the league is using to balance itself with the assumption that the West pod will be dominant, and I'm not sure it will continue to be warranted in the future.

This is an excellent point. I don't think anyone would argue that currently the west teams aren't better as a whole than the east teams. I think its also a false assumption that this will continue ad infinitum. There are a lot of programs that are currently playing at their maximum scholarship resource level, and a lot of others that have room to grow those resources if/when the opportunity comes.

 

[5hole]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

It's a little wonky, yes, because the assumption thus far for this season is that the clearly delineated "West" group will all be better on the ice than the "East" group. I would not expect this to continue from year to year, or even guarantee it to hold true as 2010-11 progresses.

In theory, the effect of the relative weakness of one pod to the other should be minimal, as there is only a differential of three games (and thus six points) between what a team plays within its pod and what a team plays cross-pod. If the pods were more insular, (say, instead of playing each team cross-pod twice, you drop that to once for 6 games, and play one more against your own pod for 20 games), perhaps the benefit of an "easier" pod will give the top teams in that pod a boost in the standings, but if one pod is clearly better than the other, it should under the current scheduling be reflected in the overall standings. A good team in the weaker pod should still finish outside of the top 4 unless they also do well in their cross-pod games.

Honestly, basing the playoffs on informal divisions seems to be a kludge the league is using to balance itself with the assumption that the West pod will be dominant, and I'm not sure it will continue to be warranted in the future.

Yeah, I don't disagree with your comment, essentially that the RS scheduling advantage may be fairly insignificant. My bigger concern is that there could be- and probably will be- a very significant ability gap between teams like Niagara and RoMo (that will likely finish in the upper half of the standings who then play each other in a one-and-out situation) and two weak teams from one pod that could end up way down in the RS (yet be rewarded with a weak first-round opponent and advancement in the tourney).

If the teams did not stay in pod the first round, then (again based on coaches poll prediction) the match-ups would be significantly different:
3. AFA v. 12. Amer Int
4. Niagara or RoMo v. 11. UConn
5. Niagara or RoMo V. 10. Bentley
6. Canisius v. 9. Army

Yes, I know ... barring upsets, that leaves all the teams in the West advancing, along with SHU and the Cross. It also leaves a better chance for a really good tournament. And second round would be where the travel savings would be instead of first round.

As designed it seems that it is simply to make sure that there is advancement and representation from each pod, ie., appeasing the traditional bottom feeders of the league.

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

As designed it seems that it is simply to make sure that there is advancement and representation from each pod, ie., appeasing the traditional bottom feeders of the league.

I'm in the camp that thinks this was all set up because the New England schools don't want to travel (be it because of costs or the fact that New Englanders think New York is a West Coast road trip) more than anything related to competition. I really believe (IMHO) the AHA looked at how to limit travel and really didn't even consider the "fairness" of the setup. The AHL has the same type of situation. The Atlantic Division has the league office's ear and limits their scheduling so they rarely, if ever, have to leave the friendly confines of New England. Those of us that are fans of teams just a few hours west of there find it kind of frustrating that we never get to see the N.E. based teams come to town and that a team like Rochester is in the Western Conference because of it. But that's the way it is in Northeastern U.S. minor pro and college hockey, apparently.
Also... as has been said, the competitive imbalance is the current shape of things. but it wasn't all that long ago that Army, SHU, and Holy Cross were three pretty strong programs in this league. What's to say they won't rise again (SHU was in the Finals last year, btw)?

 

[5hole]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Granted the AHA landscape can change, it can trend toward getting stronger in the East, even this season (the coaches are not always right). If the NE schools do not want to travel, then it could demonstrate a lack of foresight because the second round- again using the poll as the scenario- ends up with four East teams traveling anyway. Maybe they just do not want to travel for a one and out but a best of three is okay?
1 v 8: Bentley at RIT
2 v 7: Army at Mercyhurst
3 v 6: HC at AFA
4 v 5: SHU at NU/RMU winner

I agree that the NE teams have the league's ear and that is frustrating. Maybe I'm not supposed to bi-itch as a fan of a newcomer to the league but I think the league could be short-changing itself come tournament time by not having the best teams and most competitive tournament.

 

[CornwallAce]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

I agree that the NE teams have the league's ear and that is frustrating. Maybe I'm not supposed to bi-itch as a fan of a newcomer to the league but I think the league could be short-changing itself come tournament time by not having the best teams and most competitive tournament.

Wanted to get a clarification. By tournament, you do mean final 4 teams?

The top 2 teams in the west bypass the first round, where the best chance of getting upset is. If a west team gets upset in the first round, then they will get upset by another west team. I mean, if the poll has merit, then all the east teams should lose in the 2nd round, but they would have a better chance for an upset in a one game scenario than a best of 3.
(How much ****ing and moaning would we hear if AIC went to a west team for the first round and won a one game series? Remember, they held on very very close to Air Force in both games last year, and in a one game series, all you need is a bad bounce like the one at Canisius last year)

If the west teams just win, then they will have 4 teams in the tournament. Simple.
Lets just enjoy the season! Can't wait for Sunday and hockey again.

 

[kingdobbs]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

I agree that the NE teams have the league's ear and that is frustrating. Maybe I'm not supposed to bi-itch as a fan of a newcomer to the league but I think the league could be short-changing itself come tournament time by not having the best teams and most competitive tournament.

If the league truly wanted to have the best team make the NCAAs, it's as simple as saying that there will be no playoff tournament, and the regular season champion will get the automatic bid to the tournament. It's Atlantic Hockey's bid to do with as they please, and for all it matters the league can say "Niagara's going to the NCAAs to represent us this year" (I haven't the time at the moment to look up in the by-laws to see if it's actually against them to do so, but I can imagine not having at least some competitive process would be frowned upon, and not reflect well on the league in reviewing the automatic bid for the next season).

Having a tournament at all is an acknowledgement that a league MIGHT not send its best representative. Beyond that, it's simply a matter of how the games shake out, and while it's stacked this season in favor of leveling a perceived regional imbalance, that still doesn't make the results pre-determined. If the Eastern teams truly suck, even giving two of them a bye to the quarterfinals won't stop them from getting thumped in that round anyway.

 

[5hole]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Wanted to get a clarification. By tournament, you do mean final 4 teams?

The top 2 teams in the west bypass the first round, where the best chance of getting upset is. If a west team gets upset in the first round, then they will get upset by another west team. I mean, if the poll has merit, then all the east teams should lose in the 2nd round, but they would have a better chance for an upset in a one game scenario than a best of 3.
(How much ****ing and moaning would we hear if AIC went to a west team for the first round and won a one game series? Remember, they held on very very close to Air Force in both games last year, and in a one game series, all you need is a bad bounce like the one at Canisius last year)

If the west teams just win, then they will have 4 teams in the tournament. Simple.
Lets just enjoy the season! Can't wait for Sunday and hockey again.

Hey, I want to enjoy the season but I want it to mean something, too, beyond just saying the RS champ represents the league ... that's not really an argument, is it? Besides, with an unbalanced schedule, that does not work either.

When I say that I would like to see the best tournament for the league, what I am talking about is having the best teams progress through the rounds. I don't think that happens if the RS 10 and 11 teams play each other so that one gets to the next round; meanwhile one of the teams that tied for fourth gets to go home ... ?? There is no way you end up with the best eight teams advancing, a good team gets penalized and a poor team advances. That makes absolutely no sense. That should not be too hard to grasp.

I'm not basing the scenario I presented on my own predictions. I'm using the coaches' poll, so I think there should be some credibility to what I presented. Certainly there is nothing predetermined and there could be upsets.

 

[schiegs]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

As designed it seems that it is simply to make sure that there is advancement and representation from each pod, ie., appeasing the traditional bottom feeders of the league.

Yep, that's it. Appeasement is definitely the more likely motivation over cost containment.

 

[5hole]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Yep, that's it. Appeasement is definitely the more likely motivation over cost containment.

Yeah ... totally unreasonable to think the traditional bottom feeders of the league might have seen this as a way to balance out their participation in the tournament, to get their teams deeper into it. Probably never crossed their minds that they would end up last yet still get a chance to advance.

Of course, paying for travel in the second round best of three (with hotel costs) must be cheaper than just the bus ride for one game ... Unless they planned on breaking with tradition of winning in single digits and thereby winning home ice. Too bad the league coaches did not have that confidence.

 

[Patman]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Yeah ... totally unreasonable to think the traditional bottom feeders of the league might have seen this as a way to balance out their participation in the tournament, to get their teams deeper into it. Probably never crossed their minds that they would end up last yet still get a chance to advance.

Of course, paying for travel in the second round best of three (with hotel costs) must be cheaper than just the bus ride for one game ... Unless they planned on breaking with tradition of winning in single digits and thereby winning home ice. Too bad the league coaches did not have that confidence.

There's that winning Niagara snobbery we're all used to. Puck hasn't even dropped and you're worried about all those people holding you back.

 

[5hole]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

That's real good Patman ... look, Niagara is a part of this league now and not all of us were real happy when that happened but we are committed to making the best of it. In other words, I would like to see this league be as competitive as possible, not only against other conferences but against each other. To do that requires every school to use their best efforts to improve their programs and to use the resources that the conference has, including putting together a tournament that is fair to all teams. It is obvious that the process set up currently is designed with priorities other than fairness.

If you want to start name-calling, go right ahead. Simply shows that you have no argument. All I have done is to try to make a point that this tournament system that was put in place is terribly flawed.

BTW, I hardly think I am in position to be snobbish with the season that Niagara had last year. And I am thinking that we are a middle of the pack team this season. But are you seriously going to argue that there are not certain AHA programs that are historically subpar in their on-ice performance, in their facilities and in their attendance? And their true motivation was to save the cost of a bus ride for a one and out? Get real. If that is the case, they should fold their tents.

 

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Not a fan of the tournament format at all. Save the cost containment for the reg season. Having said that though, it is what it is and prospective champions will still have to beat the best teams at some point in the tournament, and if your team gets taken out by a lower seed in the pod, it didn't deserve to be making the trip to Rochester in the first place.

 

[5hole]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Yup, I agree it is a done deal for this go-round. However, there will be discussion of the tournament set up in the spring. I doubt there is any chance it will change if nobody objects.

 

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Not to derail, but should someone start our reg season and pick threads soon?