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Atlantic Hockey Expansion?

Re: Atlantic Hockey Expansion?

I don't think Air Force will ever join the NCHC. Way too competitive of a league, AF has a small rink with no room for expansion, no Canadians, etc., etc. Look at what DU and CC did already this year. A 3-27-2 hockey team won't sell many tickets (AF sells out its season tickets and most home games now) I think a better question is if AF would ever join the watered-down WCHA. Again, I think this is a long shot. Travel really isn't an issue when you have a fleet of C-17s standing by to take you anywhere in the country, the players actually prefer to be away from the zoo, so long trip aren't an issue, and the competitive balance in the AHA is much more to our liking. Playing CC and DU twice a year instead of once is one thing (fills up an extra NC weekend with a close game) but playing that level of competition 30 times is a non-starter. Depending on what happens to Bemidji, Mankato, etc. when the NCHC schools split, the WCHA might be a possibility, but not anytime soon.

RIT Winters said:
I'm not AFHockeyFan, but I would guess that Air Force is not keen on leaving a conference that has their fellow service academy, Army. That becomes even more true if/when Navy joins.
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Good point. Having a Commander-in-Chief's trophy for service academy hockey would be interesting. I hope Navy is really as close as the league seems to think.
 
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Re: Atlantic Hockey Expansion?

Would any of the mentioned candidates generate anywhere near the same amount of buzz that Navy would, if they were the selected addition? I love St. A's as a school. URI adds Big StateU back into the mix. UAH doesn't really excite me.

Navy, on the other hand, adds so much potential. All three service academies (sorry USCGA) and the media buzz that Army-Navy would generate, true Atlantic Seaboard presence, and adding to a growing academic angle for the conference..... none of the other candidates even come close to this IMHO.
 
Re: Atlantic Hockey Expansion?

schiegs said:
Would any of the mentioned candidates generate anywhere near the same amount of buzz that Navy would, if they were the selected addition? I love St. A's as a school. URI adds Big StateU back into the mix. UAH doesn't really excite me.

Navy, on the other hand, adds so much potential. All three service academies (sorry USCGA) and the media buzz that Army-Navy would generate, true Atlantic Seaboard presence, and adding to a growing academic angle for the conference..... none of the other candidates even come close to this IMHO.
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UAH isn't that bad--you can golf there in January. I wouldn't mind having them back in the league, although it would upset the East-West balance (RIT to the East?) But, you're right. Navy would be a huge get. Look at all the buzz around Penn St. when they added a program.
 
Re: Atlantic Hockey Expansion?

schiegs said:
UAH doesn't really excite me.
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I agree. I have no idea why the AHA would consider bringing on UAH. They add nothing in my opinion except more travel expense to a "cost containment" conference.
 
Re: Atlantic Hockey Expansion?

MattS said:
I agree. I have no idea why the AHA would consider bringing on UAH. They add nothing in my opinion except more travel expense to a "cost containment" conference.
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I think mentioning UAH is just a politically correct way of doing things. They're not going to to go the AHA. If anything, they will go to the WCHA and help split it into two divisions.
 
Re: Atlantic Hockey Expansion?

MattS said:
I agree. I have no idea why the AHA would consider bringing on UAH. They add nothing in my opinion except more travel expense to a "cost containment" conference.
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I suspect that it was not AHA that initiated the idea. And I also suspect the reason UAH is on the short list isn't AHA's need, but UAH's.

At the very least, it's another committed and respectable program in the mix, so it's not a terrible idea from the AHA perspective. Neither is it, however, an ideal arrangement, for either party.
 
Re: Atlantic Hockey Expansion?

Humanoid said:
I think mentioning UAH is just a politically correct way of doing things. They're not going to to go the AHA. If anything, they will go to the WCHA and help split it into two divisions.
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I can see maybe the PC thing, and I guess mentioning UAH isn't a bad thing, but I still content it was useless. As for going to the nWCHA...maybe, maybe not. It certianly is taking nWCHA long enough to make a decision on it.

kingdobbs said:
I suspect that it was not AHA that initiated the idea. And I also suspect the reason UAH is on the short list isn't AHA's need, but UAH's.

At the very least, it's another committed and respectable program in the mix, so it's not a terrible idea from the AHA perspective. Neither is it, however, an ideal arrangement, for either party.
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I agree that it was probably UAH grudgingly coming to the AHA and inquring. A backup plan for them not getting into the nWCHA.

I still have lingering doubts that UAH is committed. They are what 2 years removed from esentially closing down their program and for all purposes it's still on lifesupport.

And again, it does nothing for the AHA but increase costs. With the likes of some of the eastern members in the AHA, I don't feel that respect is all that important to them.
 
Re: Atlantic Hockey Expansion?

What about dipping into D3 for the next AHA instead of D2 or club? St. A's does have a nice rink, but also have limited appeal and are not much of an established program. I find it hard to believe if St. A's was added they would be able to compete any better then some of the bottom teams in the league already. What about a program like Oswego or Norwich or maybe even Utica? Much more established programs that kids would actually recognize and want to go play for. Neumann U wouldn't be bad either with their campus recent commitment to building new athletic facilities and Philly being only 15 minutes down the highway from their campus. The addition of Penn State's program would be a motivating factor for the AHA to court Neumann to do D1 as well since they and Robert Morris are the only D1 programs in the state?
 
Re: Atlantic Hockey Expansion?

neumanniaknights09 said:
What about dipping into D3 for the next AHA instead of D2 or club? St. A's does have a nice rink, but also have limited appeal and are not much of an established program. I find it hard to believe if St. A's was added they would be able to compete any better then some of the bottom teams in the league already. What about a program like Oswego or Norwich or maybe even Utica? Much more established programs that kids would actually recognize and want to go play for. Neumann U wouldn't be bad either with their campus recent commitment to building new athletic facilities and Philly being only 15 minutes down the highway from their campus. The addition of Penn State's program would be a motivating factor for the AHA to court Neumann to do D1 as well since they and Robert Morris are the only D1 programs in the state?
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It would be VERY difficult for them to compete, since as members of D-III, they are not permitted to offer scholarships for their D-I sports.

In fact, I can't remember if they are even allowed to elevate individual sports to D-I anymore......?
 
Re: Atlantic Hockey Expansion?

schiegs said:
It would be VERY difficult for them to compete, since as members of D-III, they are not permitted to offer scholarships for their D-I sports.

In fact, I can't remember if they are even allowed to elevate individual sports to D-I anymore......?
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I don't think they are. RIT petitioned to get the woman's hockey team to go DI on merits of Title IX.
 
Re: Atlantic Hockey Expansion?

MattS said:
I agree that it was probably UAH grudgingly coming to the AHA and inquring. A backup plan for them not getting into the nWCHA.

I still have lingering doubts that UAH is committed. They are what 2 years removed from esentially closing down their program and for all purposes it's still on lifesupport.

And again, it does nothing for the AHA but increase costs. With the likes of some of the eastern members in the AHA, I don't feel that respect is all that important to them.
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I think you'll find that it was far from a majority desire in the administration, much less a unanimous one, to put the UAH hockey program on (off?) ice.

But, in general, I think for associational memberships like these, you at least have the courtesy obligation to hear the pitch.

neumanniaknights09 said:
What about dipping into D3 for the next AHA instead of D2 or club? St. A's does have a nice rink, but also have limited appeal and are not much of an established program. I find it hard to believe if St. A's was added they would be able to compete any better then some of the bottom teams in the league already. What about a program like Oswego or Norwich or maybe even Utica? Much more established programs that kids would actually recognize and want to go play for. Neumann U wouldn't be bad either with their campus recent commitment to building new athletic facilities and Philly being only 15 minutes down the highway from their campus. The addition of Penn State's program would be a motivating factor for the AHA to court Neumann to do D1 as well since they and Robert Morris are the only D1 programs in the state?
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I would think the assumption would be that if St. Anselm was to make the jump, it would be *as a result* of deciding to make a larger commitment. The NESCAC pulling out of the interlock was a major blow to the quality of play coming to St. A's, and I think they're coming to the conclusion that being virtually D-III in everything but name in ice hockey is not a plan for the program's future. Of any of the "DII-DIIIs", they're the ones most likely to make something of it.

As for other D-IIIs making the jump, the NCAA is sort of tightening the boundaries between divisions at the moment, and has emplaced a series of moratoriums and restrictions on movement. It will be difficult for teams to make such a jump, as they'll have to petition (St. A's won't, because they are entitled as a D-II classified team in a sport without a D-II championship to play up), and none of them will be able to give scholarships. The school themselves would have to make the call whether they wanted to reclassify.
 
Re: Atlantic Hockey Expansion?

MattS said:
I still have lingering doubts that UAH is committed. They are what 2 years removed from esentially closing down their program and for all purposes it's still on lifesupport.
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The new president, Dr. Altenkirch, actually working with the grassroots supporters and figure out a plan to make it work really helped.

The folks at the Von Braun Center, with its wonderful renovations, also have our backs (finally).

And -- although the way it was handled may be debated -- switching to a head coach with the resume of Kurt Kleinendorst a week before the season started is not something a program not caring would bother with.

UAH is more committed than many people think.
 
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Re: Atlantic Hockey Expansion?

komey1 said:
I don't think they are. RIT petitioned to get the woman's hockey team to go DI on merits of Title IX.
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Div. II's can declare to play up to D-I because there's no D-II hockey championship. D-III hockey programs can no longer declare to go D-I (except in cases like RIT's women like you just mentioned).
 
Re: Atlantic Hockey Expansion?

lmg6841 said:
Pretty sure Mercyhurst is from PA as well.
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I had to check online, but I remember Mercyhurst playing Gannon(Erie, PA) which is D2 in some sports, and Mercyhurst is indeed D2. But why not bring Gannon to D1 hockey =]
 
Re: Atlantic Hockey Expansion?

Mercyhurst plays D1 in Atlantic Hockey. I imagine Gannon wasn't considered because of: no name recognition, no d1 rink, or encouraging fan support.

CornwallAce said:
I had to check online, but I remember Mercyhurst playing Gannon(Erie, PA) which is D2 in some sports, and Mercyhurst is indeed D2. But why not bring Gannon to D1 hockey =]
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