Anyone else sick of seeing underclassman leave schoo early?

[solovsfett]

Re: Anyone else sick of seeing underclassman leave schoo early?

I'll take 2 years of Dany Heatley and 3 years of great d-men any day over the alternative (MJ) any day of the week.

once in a while you'll get a Dave Tanabe who leaves early and isn't ready. but seriously, you close the door on kids leaving early and the talent level of NCAA hockey will drop to less than the ECHL and quick

 

[Happy]

Re: Anyone else sick of seeing underclassman leave schoo early?

Thanks for the reply. I knew about the terms and max limits, was more wondering the size of your average entry level contract. I've found contract sizes for anyone on the NHL team but not sure if an AHL players contract is public info. Do AHL players contracts count against the salary cap and if so wouldn't they be listed for the public to see? Obviously it ranges based on the player but in general there has to be some sort of average for a kid expected to go to the AHL and serve his time in hopes to perform well and get a call up.

Only because you are a cake eater.


http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/10/13/1565417/ahl-salary-charts

 

[SteveP]

Re: Anyone else sick of seeing underclassman leave schoo early?

grant fuhr was half white, and adopted and raised by a white family in a wealthy white-only city in Alberta. woops!

mckegnie was adopted and raised by white people in the rich city of Sarnia Ontario, (hellooooo great lake$ oil drilling)

Carter was raised in rich suburban Toronto, his parents worked high up in Province Government. Weekes grew up in the same area under almost the same circumstances. I personally love Weekes, I think he's a class act.

Let's keep going this is fun.

l

OK - let's keep going with the fun, especially because your facts are far removed from reality.

Let's start with Anson Carter. Anson grew up in Agincourt, as I did. We both attended Agincourt Collegiate Institute. Hardly "rich suburban Toronto", Agincourt was a middle-class community in the northeastern corner of suburban Toronto. While it has since become home to a large Chinese community, much of the area remains middle-class and increasingly mixed racially.

Like Carter, Kevin Weekes' parents immigrated from Barbados. However, they settled in downtown Toronto. If I recall correctly, it was in Regent Park, one of the toughest, most crime-riddled areas of the city.

From Kevin's own website bio:

Growing up in downtown Toronto, Kevin was introduced to hockey during neighborhood street hockey games. Though at first Kevin had no proper equipment, he used foam from old sofa cushions as pads, found an old Friday the 13th goalie mask, and rigged a yellow margarine container for a glove.

I'll give you that the towns where Fuhr and McKegney grew up are mostly white.

Yes, Grant Fuhr's adoptive parents are white - his father is/was an insurance salesman. Spruce Grove, Alberta is a middle-class bedroom community of Edmonton. The 2006 census puts the median 2005 family income of all families in Spruce Grove at $83,259. Hardly "wealthy" in my opinion.

And yes, Tony McKegney's adoptive father is white and was a Royal Canadian Air Force pilot. Pays well, but not a fortune (like insurance sales). Oh, and Sarnia is a struggling city. The last Canadian census shows the median income of all families in 2005 was $69,731 --- well below that other rich city of Spruce Grove.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Anyone else sick of seeing underclassman leave schoo early?

Anson Carter, Kevin Weekes, Grant Fuhr, Tony McKegney

Good information. Let's grant that you have won the argument about these 4 particular players. Congratulations - you now have 4 anecdotes which prove absolutely nothing about what the socioeconomic background of typical hockey players might or might not be.

 

[SteveP]

Re: Anyone else sick of seeing underclassman leave schoo early?

Good information. Let's grant that you have won the argument about these 4 particular players. Congratulations - you now have 4 anecdotes which prove absolutely nothing about what the socioeconomic background of typical hockey players might or might not be.

I was refuting Nudgy's premise that hockey players mostly come from privileged white families/communities.

I will give him his posit that "behind all the best hockey players is generally a check book." However, those check are written by parents from all socioeconomic backgrounds, from small farm communities in the US and Canada to affluent and working class neighborhoods in big cities.

More and more, thanks to programs like the NHL's Hockey is for Everyone initiative, we are seeing kids skate out of the 'hood. Kevin Weekes is an early example and is a role model to others growing up in similar circumstances.

Getting back to the original topic of this thread - heck yes, I'm as concerned about players leaving early. I also understand why they choose to take the money when they can.

I think the big difference between college hockey players and their football and b-ball counterparts is that more hockey players eventually complete their education.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Anyone else sick of seeing underclassman leave schoo early?

I was refuting Nudgy's premise that hockey players mostly come from privileged white families/communities.

I'm simply pointing out that 4 anecdotes DON'T refute a point about where hockey players "mostly" come from.

Mostly, they do come from rather affluent backgrounds, especially compared to football, basketball, and baseball players (have you SEEN the GDP of the Dominican Republic?).

 

[DaveStPaul]

Re: Anyone else sick of seeing underclassman leave schoo early?

What is the obcession with these kids playing in AHL? Who is really advising these kids that signing is the right thing. Will the NCAA and the NHL change there rules regarding college players? This is killing the sport like no other college sport.

I'm not "sick of it."

I was a music major, and while I was in school a few kids (still undergrads) won auditions, and they were gone as soon as they got their bags packed. Good for them, was the general feeling. If you're good enough to be a pro, why stay in school?

 

[nudgy_olsen]

Re: Anyone else sick of seeing underclassman leave schoo early?

However, those check are written by parents from all socioeconomic backgrounds, from small farm communities in the US and Canada to affluent and working class neighborhoods in big cities.

that is true yup. but my only point was that you will never see a kid play hockey well from the ghetto, just because of the cost involved in obtaining a high skill level of play. for example, Minneapolis North does not produce hockey players, despite that it is a 4 year government-funded highschool in the largest city in a state that literally claims it is Thee State of Hockey. And the one and only reason why? It is in the straight up ghetto. A kid in Harlem with a wicked jump shot could go to Duke. A kid in North Minneapolis with a wicked wrist shot will not go to UND. We end up seeing mostly privaleged white kids in high levels of hockey, because generally privaleged black kids with the same resources available generally do not move in the direction of hockey, they explore their talents elsewhere. Where as in basketball, if you have zero resources, your jump shot can take you places regardless of your race background. But when you add money in there, usually the black kids won't gravitate toward hockey. (which doesn't mean anything really, its just the reality of the world at this point.) I love Kevin Weekes, he is the exception to the generalization. A privaleged white kid in Minnesota will play hockey every single time. A privaleged black kid in Minnesota will probably go a different route and try something else. BUT, a ghetto white or black kid will go basketball every single time, simply because hockey requires the cash. Remember the Mighty Ducks? Ducksworth had to cut a fat check just to get them into the play off contention. Nevermind the sequels when **** went international and price tags went 6 figures. Boo ya

 

[Osorojo]

Re: Anyone else sick of seeing underclassman leave schoo early?

"If you're good enough to be a pro why stay in school?"
A better question is: "If you want to play pro hockey rather than earn an academic degree why go to college in the first place?" I'm guessing money is involved in the answer, with the cash flow trickling down to the hockey schools as well as the hockey players.

 

[Dirty]

Re: Anyone else sick of seeing underclassman leave schoo early?

"If you're good enough to be a pro why stay in school?"
A better question is: "If you want to play pro hockey rather than earn an academic degree why go to college in the first place?" I'm guessing money is involved in the answer, with the cash flow trickling down to the hockey schools as well as the hockey players.

 

[Tater]

Re: Anyone else sick of seeing underclassman leave schoo early?

I'm not "sick of it."

I was a music major, and while I was in school a few kids (still undergrads) won auditions, and they were gone as soon as they got their bags packed. Good for them, was the general feeling. If you're good enough to be a pro, why stay in school?

I would guess that a "career-ending injury," necessitating a back-up career option, is much more likely for hockey than music.

 

[cross cheque]

Re: Anyone else sick of seeing underclassman leave schoo early?

I'm guessing

As usual.

I'm guessing money is involved in the answer, with the cash flow trickling down to the hockey schools as well as the hockey players.

For as hard as you stretch to validate your assumptions you would need go-go gadget arms. College hockey players getting paid to play? Guffaw.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Anyone else sick of seeing underclassman leave schoo early?

College hockey players getting paid to play?

Isn't that called a 'scholarship'?

 

[Osorojo]

Re: Anyone else sick of seeing underclassman leave schoo early?

As usual.



For as hard as you stretch to validate your assumptions you would need go-go gadget arms. College hockey players getting paid to play? Guffaw.

I'll hazard another guess: you do a lot of guffawing. Here's why.
College tuition is expensive - check and see.
Obtaining a degree from a reputable college requires considerable dedication, time, and effort to academics - ask around.
You conclude (?) that the growing number of one (or two) and done college hockey players chose college hockey rather than major juniors for academic rather than financial reasons.
Did you wear a helmet when you played?

 

[Dirty]

Re: Anyone else sick of seeing underclassman leave schoo early?

I'll hazard another guess: you do a lot of guffawing. Here's why.
College tuition is expensive - check and see.
Obtaining a degree from a reputable college requires considerable dedication, time, and effort to academics - ask around.
You conclude (?) that the growing number of one (or two) and done college hockey players chose college hockey rather than major juniors for academic rather than financial reasons.
Did you wear a helmet when you played?

Do you wear one in everyday life?

 

[jmh]

Re: Anyone else sick of seeing underclassman leave schoo early?

This is what you should expect if you recruit guys who're in it as a place to play between junior and the pros rather than guys who actually want to get an education.

 

[davyd83]

Re: Anyone else sick of seeing underclassman leave schoo early?

I would guess that a "career-ending injury," necessitating a back-up career option, is much more likely for hockey than music.

So say the players stays in school and suffers that injury. Guess what his signing bonus now amounts to. $00.00

 

[reggiedunlop]

Stop! Underclassmen?Repeated a grade if they went to prep, did a PG year if they went to a public H.S., and/or Juniors which is a joke, no other sport does the NCAA grant "amateur" status for an athlete to maybe take a class or 2 and keep eligibility. 21 year old freshmen? 25 year old seniors? Heck why not let capitalism prevail, the NCAA winks anyway.

 

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Stop! Underclassmen?Repeated a grade if they went to prep, did a PG year if they went to a public H.S., and/or Juniors which is a joke, no other sport does the NCAA grant "amateur" status for an athlete to maybe take a class or 2 and keep eligibility. 21 year old freshmen? 25 year old seniors? Heck why not let capitalism prevail, the NCAA winks anyway.

The oldest player to receive the Heisman was Chris Weinke at age 28 (though he didn't take classes). It happens in football and basketball as well. Just not to the extent it does in hockey.

 

[reggiedunlop]

The oldest player to receive the Heisman was Chris Weinke at age 28 (though he didn't take classes). It happens in football and basketball as well. Just not to the extent it does in hockey.

True true and unrelated, Chris Weinke played 6 years of pro baseball, then went to college, not unlike those in the military, don't mislead and avoid the SHAM of Junior hockey, imagine Jr football or if AAU basketball or Little League/travel AAU baseball got up to speed and replicated billeting kids and making a Jr football, basketball or baseball league, would the NCAA let that slide? What about Jr football for the kids that can't get past the clearinghouse? And golf, tennis, track and field, skiing, bowling, swimming, the list goes on... Attracting attention to the one (or 2 or 3) and done hockey players risks the whole fallacy. What about seniors who sign ECHL or AHL contracts as soon as their season is over. Can't imagine they went to class second semester senior year knowing they had cash waiting.