Antiwork 2: No One Is Getting A Pay Raise

[MissThundercat]

 

[ticapnews]

 

[unofan]

Got the verbal offer on Friday to go back to a state government job, just waiting for the official offer letter once the HR agency signs off on a starting salary. Feels good even with the signified l significant pay cut cause private practice is 100% not for me, but i am dreading the conversation with the other attorneys in my practice group once i get the official offer. Hate leaving them in a lurch, but gotta look out for #1. Hoping it's not a complete shock to them, but still.

 

[Kepler]

Let's check in for a quick status update:

Retirement is wonderful.

Work is prison. Never let anybody tell you different; the rest is rationalization. Goof off as much as you can, get out as quickly as you can, and steal everything down to the paperclips. They are raping you every FTE hour.

 

[Scarlet]

Been thinking more and more about that Kep! Want to get through 2026 and then I'm going to start making plans.

So, start of the year, our department moved from where we've been forever, to our newer building across the street (where we were will start being leased out). In the old place, I had a resident desk so people could not reserve it. I've gotten used to having to reserve a desk each time I'm in. I've reserved the same desk for the most part, but during the past 6 weeks, I've had a lot of events and trips so I haven't been in as much. And because of that, a co-worker (who I know and really like) has started to reserve that desk. She used to reserve a desk on a different part of the floor but lately she's been at "my" desk.

I don't mind going desk to desk too much but she's starting to leave things there, like it's hers. [mad face]It's not[/mad face] The monitors at the desk I'm at now are driving me crazy because I can't arrange them properly. I'm sitting here again tomorrow. Ugh. I can't really say anything to her because it is first come first served. Next week is a work at home week so I'm going to try and reserve that desk now. We can do that up to three weeks in advance.

 

[Kepler]

My financial advisor told me far, far more people retire too late than too early.

Collect every scrap of data about your financial situation. Run the numbers. Figure your burn rate. Once you've done all that hire somebody, dump all the data on them without prejudgment, and see if she comes back with the same charts. If she does, trust it.

I was programmed to think it would be impossible and we would crash out. The numbers told a different story and because I am fairly unemotional about math I was able to finally pull the cord. But initially I literally could not believe I was free. Yes, it took 37 years of saving and investing wisely, but I still just could not get my head around it. That is how strongly we have been programmed to generate wealth for the 1% until we drop dead.

Man is born free, yet everywhere he is in chains.

 

[ticapnews]

I was watching a video the other day about retiring too early and how if you live past a certain age that will impact you financially. Not that I have a choice, my disability turns into regular SS at age 62 regardless, but I have already passed my expiration date. According to the actuarial tables I should have died in 2019. Living too long is not a concern of mine.

 

[Kepler]

Or maybe it is. Have you considered you are Connor MacLeod?

 

[ticapnews]

Or maybe it is. Have you considered you are Connor MacLeod?

While it is true I am part of a Scottish clan, I am not a member of that Scottish clan...

 

[MichVandal]

My financial advisor told me far, far more people retire too late than too early.

Collect every scrap of data about your financial situation. Run the numbers. Figure your burn rate. Once you've done all that hire somebody, dump all the data on them without prejudgment, and see if she comes back with the same charts. If she does, trust it.

I was programmed to think it would be impossible and we would crash out. The numbers told a different story and because I am fairly unemotional about math I was able to finally pull the cord. But initially I literally could not believe I was free. Yes, it took 37 years of saving and investing wisely, but I still just could not get my head around it. That is how strongly we have been programmed to generate wealth for the 1% until we drop dead.

Man is born free, yet everywhere he is in chains.

I agree about getting someone to run the numbers for you- we found that quite valuable over the long run- as we had a solid plan to retire after 30 years of working and living pretty much the same post retirement.

But, that being said, if one is curious about the situation before hiring someone to run the numbers- using the 4% would be a decent step to have an idea where you are. So your annual expenses should only take roughly 4% out of your investment accounts. One has to remember to include any pension, and also if you are eligible and want to take Social Security. If you are anywhere near that 4% now, then go see someone and get the solid plan and run the numbers. They will run a bunch of different scenarios to check the robustness of your funds.

Retirement has been really interesting in terms of spending. You can save a lot of money by travelling at really light times- like going to much of Europe in Sept/Oct, or going to see shows on Broadway in Feb, March, or August. Or taking all of your annual cruises at once- saving the travel money to a port. Or finding a new travel hobby- like camping. Or finding that someone will pay you to do your hobby, and it's NOT WORK. Etc. Basically, while it's a decent estimate to use your current spending- it will change a LOT not working.

Hope you can do it soon, scarlet. It's a big relief.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Retirement has been really interesting in terms of spending. You can save a lot of money by travelling at really light times- like going to much of Europe in Sept/Oct, or going to see shows on Broadway in Feb, March, or August.

I discovered this very quickly. Sure, at times I can't dictate the schedule (like wanting to attend certain racing events, like in January for the Rolex 24 which I'm planning), but otherwise traveling when you can choose the time of year has been great, and not just for budgetary reasons.

 

[MissThundercat]

 

[SJHovey]

But, that being said, if one is curious about the situation before hiring someone to run the numbers- using the 4% would be a decent step to have an idea where you are. So your annual expenses should only take roughly 4% out of your investment accounts. One has to remember to include any pension, and also if you are eligible and want to take Social Security.

For those of you who have retired, I'm curious what you did on social security. I'm social security eligible, but haven't yet hit 70. I had just always planned to wait and max it out (whatever that max might look like then). But that sort of makes sense for me since I am still working. In my case, it's not likely going to be anything that I will need to live on, so it's more of a mathematical exercise.

For those of you who have already retired, what are your plans, or what did you do, and what factors went into it? Take it as soon as possible? Wait for "full" social security? Wait to max it out?

 

[MichVandal]

For those of you who have retired, I'm curious what you did on social security. I'm social security eligible, but haven't yet hit 70. I had just always planned to wait and max it out (whatever that max might look like then). But that sort of makes sense for me since I am still working. In my case, it's not likely going to be anything that I will need to live on, so it's more of a mathematical exercise.

For those of you who have already retired, what are your plans, or what did you do, and what factors went into it? Take it as soon as possible? Wait for "full" social security? Wait to max it out?

The plan is to wait until 70. The certain growth of that favors the maybe growth of the funds. It won't end up being a huge difference, but enough. While that risks dying before 81 (where everyone's payment crossover is), it's fine.

But that's a really long way off for me. So things can change. I'm still years away from being able to even take social security.

 

[Kepler]

For those of you who have retired, I'm curious what you did on social security. I'm social security eligible, but haven't yet hit 70. I had just always planned to wait and max it out (whatever that max might look like then). But that sort of makes sense for me since I am still working. In my case, it's not likely going to be anything that I will need to live on, so it's more of a mathematical exercise.

For those of you who have already retired, what are your plans, or what did you do, and what factors went into it? Take it as soon as possible? Wait for "full" social security? Wait to max it out?

My instinct was to wait but after talking with our CFA I took it right out of the shoot (62). Once we figured in the opportunity cost for my other investments the lines crossed at 110 years old before I would start to see a net gain for waiting.

 

[Kepler]

View attachment 1335

Man aint that the truth.

 

[MichVandal]

My instinct was to wait but after talking with our CFA I took it right out of the shoot (62). Once we figured in the opportunity cost for my other investments the lines crossed at 110 years old before I would start to see a net gain for waiting.

I've seen that argument, and I don't think it totally flies- the opportunity lost is a gamble- what you are hoping for is X straight years of gain over 8% (which is the return rate for social security- or the penalty for taking early and the bonus for waiting). For sure, it pushes the actual cross over to way beyond your life- so it hardly matters one way or another IF you have the means.

It also matters a LOT if you have plans to leave money for family- then you want too keep your investments as high as possible, since you can't inherit social security. That has a pretty significant impact on the decision.

Basically, there are lots of components to the decision, and one really needs to have a chart to lay them all out and know what you are deciding on.

That being said, I totally get the luxury to be able to do that. It'd hardly common in the US- given how jobs and personal financial security have trended over the decades.

 

[Kepler]

Yes, it is driven by the sheer privilege of our position -- I was answering the question, not making a recommendation. As an example our CFA also told us "FFS, spend money! That's what it's for!"

Dr. Mrs. grew up poor and I was raised by Depression parents, so we are both extremely frugal. I have had many people walk into our house or look at our car and say, "man, you guys live way below your means." I've personally never found anything worth spending money on that outweighs its value to me as security against cataclysm other than travel.

However, my CFA's comment still does stand: more people retire too late than too early. The penalty for the latter is obvious but the penalty for the former we severely devalue in our country because we are supposed to be good little productivity units for our betters. Well fuck that.

Actual advice: Run your numbers and do what they say.

 

[MichVandal]

Yes, it is driven by the sheer privilege of our position -- I was answering the question, not making a recommendation. As an example our CFA also told us "FFS, spend money! That's what it's for!"

Dr. Mrs. grew up poor and I was raised by Depression parents, so we are both extremely frugal. I have had many people walk into our house or look at our car and say, "man, you guys live way below your means." I've personally never found anything worth spending money on that outweighs its value to me as security against cataclysm other than travel.

However, my CFA's comment still does stand: more people retire too late than too early. The penalty for the latter is obvious but the penalty for the former we severely devalue in our country because we are supposed to be good little productivity units for our betters. Well fuck that.

Actual advice: Run your numbers and do what they say.

It's kind of surprising that people want to work so much. Retirement does not mean do nothing- it just means you are not relying on someone else to survive and/or thrive. You can always do stuff- farm, woodwork, play with cars, consult, travel, watch TV- whatever. But the pressure of not working for someone else is so good.

And I totally get the idea of just "spending money" as my parents were reasonably frugal, too. So we always had the thought of what are you spending on in the back of your head. We also didn't get caught up in the need to "keep up with appearances", as most of that didn't add actual value to our lives. We still live in the same house I bought 33 years ago.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

For those of you who have retired, I'm curious what you did on social security. I'm social security eligible, but haven't yet hit 70. I had just always planned to wait and max it out (whatever that max might look like then). But that sort of makes sense for me since I am still working. In my case, it's not likely going to be anything that I will need to live on, so it's more of a mathematical exercise.

For those of you who have already retired, what are your plans, or what did you do, and what factors went into it? Take it as soon as possible? Wait for "full" social security? Wait to max it out?

There is something you have to consider which we are just considering now. In fact, we have a meeting with our advisors in December.

One acronym -- RMD. One word -- taxes.

Our original plan was to wait till 70 to take SS. We should have plenty of non-taxable money (either cash savings or ROTH IRA) to live till then (not to mention, my wife, who is a year older than me, still wants to work). We also want to wait as long as possible to take taxable income out until RMD forces us to.

However, our advisor said something very interesting recently, and they are running the numbers to see if it applies to us.

When our RMD kicks in (we have the majority of our money in taxable IRAs/401Ks), when combined with SS, it could trip us into a higher tax bracket. However, if we start taking SS now, those amounts will be less (obviously), and thus combined with our RMD at the time that kicks in, we may be in a lower tax bracket.

In other words, when you factor in the tax affect at RMD time, even though we may get less overall in SS payments, we could be saving even more on taxes. End result, we're better off taking SS now.

[There is also the strategy of flipping the taxable investments to ROTH IRAs, and taking the tax hit now. If you are making no taxable income, that's a good strategy. Just have to be careful how much you do each year. We are a bit hampered with my wife still working, so the amount to convert won't be that high in order to keep us in a lower tax bracket.]