USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
Another possibly problematic women's coach
- Thread starter Arafel
- Start date
OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
In the corporate world we are permitted to post as individuals, but there are clear guidelines that you are posting as an individual and to not post anything that contravenes corporate policy, and neither can we comment on publicly on company matters. The latter is reserved for the PR department.
In the corporate world we are permitted to post as individuals, but there are clear guidelines that you are posting as an individual and to not post anything that contravenes corporate policy, and neither can we comment on publicly on company matters. The latter is reserved for the PR department.
Puckdrop14
New member
Eeyore has it right!
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
This is sports chat. On the internet. Informal conversation. Casting it in terms of epistemology is just a little grand, no?
OK, Here You Go: We have some quotes from the student newspaper. We have a couple of anonymous posts. Does this raise an issue? Sure. Will people start forming opinions? No doubt. Can we justifiably believe we have full knowledge of the situation on the basis of this type of evidence? NO!
Satisfied?
Give it a rest and let people commiserate.
Oh lord. Not you too!
This is sports chat. On the internet. Informal conversation. Casting it in terms of epistemology is just a little grand, no?
OK, Here You Go: We have some quotes from the student newspaper. We have a couple of anonymous posts. Does this raise an issue? Sure. Will people start forming opinions? No doubt. Can we justifiably believe we have full knowledge of the situation on the basis of this type of evidence? NO!
Satisfied?
Give it a rest and let people commiserate.
Puckdrop14
New member
Not agreeing with the general population doesn't sit well with some! Agreeing with Eeyore is not easy but I did and that's my opinion. Let me commiserate.
OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
If you are trying to be funny it worked
If you are trying to be funny it worked
Puckdrop14
New member
If you are trying to be funny it worked
Unless you have lived through it, you get frustrated when you read a lot of guesswork hence my agreement with Eeyore.
ZedLeppelin
Motormouth
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
I can verify that the post from HelloItsMe is indeed from a current senior on the Penn State women's hockey team. She was also a regular starter on the team. I have no reason to make that up, and you can believe it or not, but it's genuine and a good summary of how the seniors feel about the allegations in the Collegian article.
I can verify that the post from HelloItsMe is indeed from a current senior on the Penn State women's hockey team. She was also a regular starter on the team. I have no reason to make that up, and you can believe it or not, but it's genuine and a good summary of how the seniors feel about the allegations in the Collegian article.
Puckdrop14
New member
So you can continue to commiserate? I hope she doesn't post and leaves well enough alone.
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
Also, it does feel a little wrong that the complaining parties had their side of the story presented, but the coach's defender is being told stop, don't fully tell your side of the story.
That's not where I was going with my remark. When HelloItsMe first surfaced, we weren't exactly welcoming. While I don't think we were rude, I do wish we had a mulligan on that.
Also, it does feel a little wrong that the complaining parties had their side of the story presented, but the coach's defender is being told stop, don't fully tell your side of the story.
I would be absolutely fine with that result. But whether or not to speak should be her choice.
ZedLeppelin
Motormouth
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
I think that's probably the biggest issue with the current seniors - just like two years ago, the complainers have been heard (again), but that's where the Collegian reporters stopped reporting (again). I've never heard of a single player on the D-1 team, in any class, having any complaints about mental abuse from Brandwene. True, the D-1 underclassmen would have good reason not to accuse the coach publicly, but you know hockey parents do talk at games, and the only complaints I've ever heard anyone having have been strictly about Brandwene's coaching ability. As HelloItsMe pointed out, that's a far different complaint than mental abuse.
The seniors get an exit interview (I assume that's with the AD) before they graduate, and that's where they can lodge any complaints they have about their experience under Brandwene, and I think that's where they've chosen to keep those complaints rather than sharing them here, especially since they don't involve mental abuse anyway. If any of the current seniors had experienced that kind of thing, they would have no reason not to share it now, but not a single one of the twelve has alleged anything like that. By HelloItsMe sharing her own D-1 experiences at Penn State, it gives the story some balance - something the Collegian reporters didn't seem too interested in.
If Brandwene did treat these former club players this way, it should have been handled years ago when it first came up, if the allegations had that kind of merit. If these complaints have nothing to do with the D-1 team, and the accusations weren't credible enough back then to dismiss Brandwene, why run the story again? I don't understand the motivation.
I think that's probably the biggest issue with the current seniors - just like two years ago, the complainers have been heard (again), but that's where the Collegian reporters stopped reporting (again). I've never heard of a single player on the D-1 team, in any class, having any complaints about mental abuse from Brandwene. True, the D-1 underclassmen would have good reason not to accuse the coach publicly, but you know hockey parents do talk at games, and the only complaints I've ever heard anyone having have been strictly about Brandwene's coaching ability. As HelloItsMe pointed out, that's a far different complaint than mental abuse.
The seniors get an exit interview (I assume that's with the AD) before they graduate, and that's where they can lodge any complaints they have about their experience under Brandwene, and I think that's where they've chosen to keep those complaints rather than sharing them here, especially since they don't involve mental abuse anyway. If any of the current seniors had experienced that kind of thing, they would have no reason not to share it now, but not a single one of the twelve has alleged anything like that. By HelloItsMe sharing her own D-1 experiences at Penn State, it gives the story some balance - something the Collegian reporters didn't seem too interested in.
If Brandwene did treat these former club players this way, it should have been handled years ago when it first came up, if the allegations had that kind of merit. If these complaints have nothing to do with the D-1 team, and the accusations weren't credible enough back then to dismiss Brandwene, why run the story again? I don't understand the motivation.
OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
Understood. As a parent of two former College players (years ago) seen this type of innuendo happen in the past. Lost of half truths and falls truths being spewed. Also experienced being nailed on the wall on this very forum for my opinions. Hence my general advice to be careful in posting. Most of us on here are passionate about the game, for a variety of reasons. Sometime passion brings out the best in people, sometimes the worst.
Having said all that. The experience of being a varsity athlete is in general a wonderful one, with lots of valuable life experiences and friendships being build. Our daughters sure learned from it and enjoyed it. This despite some hardships and in each occasion going through turmoil and a coaching change while they were on their respective teams. Both have gone on to use the experiences as part of success beyond college.
Understood. As a parent of two former College players (years ago) seen this type of innuendo happen in the past. Lost of half truths and falls truths being spewed. Also experienced being nailed on the wall on this very forum for my opinions. Hence my general advice to be careful in posting. Most of us on here are passionate about the game, for a variety of reasons. Sometime passion brings out the best in people, sometimes the worst.
Having said all that. The experience of being a varsity athlete is in general a wonderful one, with lots of valuable life experiences and friendships being build. Our daughters sure learned from it and enjoyed it. This despite some hardships and in each occasion going through turmoil and a coaching change while they were on their respective teams. Both have gone on to use the experiences as part of success beyond college.
Last edited:
ZedLeppelin
Motormouth
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
I don't know if this qualifies as a "new development", but the Penn State AD did finally comment on the women's hockey situation, in an article mostly about allegations against the Penn State gymnastics coaches: http://www.collegian.psu.edu/features/article_c5643610-0dc2-11e6-9f17-cffbf9c472cb.html
I don't know if this qualifies as a "new development", but the Penn State AD did finally comment on the women's hockey situation, in an article mostly about allegations against the Penn State gymnastics coaches: http://www.collegian.psu.edu/features/article_c5643610-0dc2-11e6-9f17-cffbf9c472cb.html
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
Something that’s unique about female athletes that I learned early on in my coaching career is that they don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care. I think guys feel that way as well but I think with young women, they want to know that you care about them deeply and that you have their back.
.............Brad Frost
Are we raising a nation of whiners? Do they really think that is "abuse"?
Maybe, maybe not, whatever........comes up every year it seems.
Coaches need to get it into their skulls, the players need to feel cared about by their coaches. Being a "hard guy" is going to cause problems if the players don't feel the coach cares about them.
You can create expectations, and set standards, and have consequences for actions. But if they don't feel cared about there's going to be issues. PC or not, whiners or not, abuse or not......get used to it.
Something that’s unique about female athletes that I learned early on in my coaching career is that they don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care. I think guys feel that way as well but I think with young women, they want to know that you care about them deeply and that you have their back.
.............Brad Frost
Are we raising a nation of whiners? Do they really think that is "abuse"?
Maybe, maybe not, whatever........comes up every year it seems.
Coaches need to get it into their skulls, the players need to feel cared about by their coaches. Being a "hard guy" is going to cause problems if the players don't feel the coach cares about them.
You can create expectations, and set standards, and have consequences for actions. But if they don't feel cared about there's going to be issues. PC or not, whiners or not, abuse or not......get used to it.
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
I'm not convinced it is a male/female thing or that it is "kids today" either. Boys/mens sports filters for a certain type of personality because it is tradition. Boys accept 'hard . . . nosed' coaches because that is the only model for success the industry as seen. Girls/women on the other had do not come from that abusive tradition and have different expectations. My guess is that there have always been some number of young men who either quit the game or fail to develop to their full potential because they do not respond to abuse from someone who does not seem to care about them. But I think many successful mens coaches show their players they care. In his book Jerry Kramer recounts how abusive Vince Lombardi could be but mentions several times about how he also showed he cared. It's just not as common or acknowledged on the male side.
I'm not convinced it is a male/female thing or that it is "kids today" either. Boys/mens sports filters for a certain type of personality because it is tradition. Boys accept 'hard . . . nosed' coaches because that is the only model for success the industry as seen. Girls/women on the other had do not come from that abusive tradition and have different expectations. My guess is that there have always been some number of young men who either quit the game or fail to develop to their full potential because they do not respond to abuse from someone who does not seem to care about them. But I think many successful mens coaches show their players they care. In his book Jerry Kramer recounts how abusive Vince Lombardi could be but mentions several times about how he also showed he cared. It's just not as common or acknowledged on the male side.
Last edited:
OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
Hit the nail on the head with this one. Posted the below on this board in the past, but worth repeating.....
A very good coach I know was at a Scotty Bowman Clinic/Seminar once, and he came back with the same nugget from this clinic:
Question from said coach to Scotty Bowman...
Q: What is the most important aspect of success in coaching.
A by Mr Bowman: "effective communication with the players and understanding that communication has to be properly tailored to each individual player.
Hit the nail on the head with this one. Posted the below on this board in the past, but worth repeating.....
A very good coach I know was at a Scotty Bowman Clinic/Seminar once, and he came back with the same nugget from this clinic:
Question from said coach to Scotty Bowman...
Q: What is the most important aspect of success in coaching.
A by Mr Bowman: "effective communication with the players and understanding that communication has to be properly tailored to each individual player.
ZedLeppelin
Motormouth
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
Penn State Athletics has submitted their review of the allegations against Brandwene to the university's Office of Ethics and Compliance:
http://www.centredaily.com/sports/college/penn-state-university/psu-hockey/article77374857.html
Penn State Athletics has submitted their review of the allegations against Brandwene to the university's Office of Ethics and Compliance:
http://www.centredaily.com/sports/college/penn-state-university/psu-hockey/article77374857.html