This ran today. I found it interesting. We've heard rumblings
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/features/article_6440c3fe-ef35-11e5-a8c6-2b9904aa8e15.html
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/features/article_6440c3fe-ef35-11e5-a8c6-2b9904aa8e15.html
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Another possibly problematic women's coach
- Thread starter Arafel
- Start date
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
Yeah, I saw it an hour ago. Not the most well written piece ever, not the hardest evidence I've ever seen.
But could easily be something there.
And, for example, this is from Amanda Kessel dated March 14th
"Food for thought: around 95% of star athletes play better with confidence and more opportunities. Yet coaches still take a hard*** approach?
Instill confidence in your teammates and players if you want their best performance"
Yeah, I saw it an hour ago. Not the most well written piece ever, not the hardest evidence I've ever seen.
But could easily be something there.
And, for example, this is from Amanda Kessel dated March 14th
"Food for thought: around 95% of star athletes play better with confidence and more opportunities. Yet coaches still take a hard*** approach?
Instill confidence in your teammates and players if you want their best performance"
brookyone
Deport Right Wing Nuts
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
I would hope she reconsiders per any children at some point. There are clearly many good coaches and programs enabling a fine student athlete experience.
The results the last couple of years certainly are worthy of discussion but nothing in the article sounds abusive. Kicking a stick and not looking at players sounds like millennial whining from club players who got cut. Old story recycled with some unnamed current sources. Hardly TMZ level journalism.
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
It's a lot more than that, and there have been rumblings about him from multiple sources in the CHA.
It's a lot more than that, and there have been rumblings about him from multiple sources in the CHA.
Fair enough and sometimes where there is smoke there is fire but my point was that nothing in that article was noteworthy in my humble opinion.
Agreed, plenty of millennial whining here. Birdie Shaw was a very mediocre talent. Definately not a D1 player. Brandwene is a bad coach who only got the job because he knew someone. It's always fun though when bad players and coaches get together. Makes for interesting reading for us outsiders.
ZedLeppelin
Motormouth
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
It would be great to hear what this year's graduating seniors have to say, now that there is no threat of their being benched or cut, and no reason at all to embellish anything. Players aren't the only ones grumbling about Brandwene and his coaching ability - go to a Penn State game and talk to fans between periods. I'm sure every coach has his share of fans who are sure they could do a better job, but there's a lot of it regarding Brandwene and his coaching ability. It's easy to think the players quoted in the article are just mad at having been cut, but I think that would change if this year's graduating seniors would add their opinions to the discussion.
It would be great to hear what this year's graduating seniors have to say, now that there is no threat of their being benched or cut, and no reason at all to embellish anything. Players aren't the only ones grumbling about Brandwene and his coaching ability - go to a Penn State game and talk to fans between periods. I'm sure every coach has his share of fans who are sure they could do a better job, but there's a lot of it regarding Brandwene and his coaching ability. It's easy to think the players quoted in the article are just mad at having been cut, but I think that would change if this year's graduating seniors would add their opinions to the discussion.
IIRC, this wasn't a well received hire in the first place. It was common knowledge that he was hired because of his relationship with Joe Battista but neither of them had any previous experience in NCAA women's hockey. It was basically a hire of convenience and of friendship not one made because it was the right hockey decision. I think everyone in women's hockey laughed at this decision when he got hired. It sounds like it's coming back to bite them in the rear end now. What a surprise.
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
I have to agree with the rumblings, I know one player on the PSU team and all she did was complain about him, and she plays on scholarship. said the team would be much better with another coach. BTW I had heard this long before any of this or the articles.... Never like to see a coach treat his players with anything more then total respect, mind games have been part of hockey for years and there is a fine line their, especially when you are getting paid to win.
I have to agree with the rumblings, I know one player on the PSU team and all she did was complain about him, and she plays on scholarship. said the team would be much better with another coach. BTW I had heard this long before any of this or the articles.... Never like to see a coach treat his players with anything more then total respect, mind games have been part of hockey for years and there is a fine line their, especially when you are getting paid to win.
ZedLeppelin
Motormouth
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
A followup article today, with comments from the Penn State athletic director:
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/features/article_00a76194-f22e-11e5-aaef-a7e738940165.html
A followup article today, with comments from the Penn State athletic director:
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/features/article_00a76194-f22e-11e5-aaef-a7e738940165.html
HelloItsMe
New member
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
Note from a member of the Penn State graduating senior class:
In light of yet another article regarding allegations of emotional abuse suffered by former players during their time under Coach Josh Brandwene, I would like to share my experience playing for him as well. There are a group of 12 seniors that demonstrated unwavering support and dedication to the success and future of this program. Each person had a different experience, and I know every senior has the best intentions for the future of the team. I’m thankful to have been surrounded by such amazing teammates. Out of respect for the girls on the team, who continue to be impacted, I want to say my part. As for my personal experience playing for Josh Brandwene, I never experienced any of this alleged emotional abuse. I feel it is necessary to speak out against these claims and share my perspective.
In an attempt to push their agenda, The Daily Collegian compromised their integrity and legitimacy as a source of factual news. The accusations made in these articles are unfounded and contain little evidence of legal or ethical violations. Everyone has a right to speak about their own story, and these comments are representative of my individual experience. In my opinion, it's unlikely that a thorough investigation by the Penn State Athletics Department will produce any evidence of emotional abuse. It’s more likely an investigation will probably find that there is a lack of confidence in his coaching ability. There is a big difference. Personally, I felt that the physical and mental demands were in alignment with what would be expected of a D1 collegiate athlete. Over the years, talking with the players on teams brought a new perspective and appreciation for how good we have it. In fact, he's arguably the most accommodating and flexible coach in the NCAA. I feel incredibly lucky that I had the opportunity to play hockey and get a great education at Penn State. The experience exceeded my expectations, and I'm grateful to every member of the staff for their dedication and support of me throughout my career.
Sincerely,
A senior
Note from a member of the Penn State graduating senior class:
In light of yet another article regarding allegations of emotional abuse suffered by former players during their time under Coach Josh Brandwene, I would like to share my experience playing for him as well. There are a group of 12 seniors that demonstrated unwavering support and dedication to the success and future of this program. Each person had a different experience, and I know every senior has the best intentions for the future of the team. I’m thankful to have been surrounded by such amazing teammates. Out of respect for the girls on the team, who continue to be impacted, I want to say my part. As for my personal experience playing for Josh Brandwene, I never experienced any of this alleged emotional abuse. I feel it is necessary to speak out against these claims and share my perspective.
In an attempt to push their agenda, The Daily Collegian compromised their integrity and legitimacy as a source of factual news. The accusations made in these articles are unfounded and contain little evidence of legal or ethical violations. Everyone has a right to speak about their own story, and these comments are representative of my individual experience. In my opinion, it's unlikely that a thorough investigation by the Penn State Athletics Department will produce any evidence of emotional abuse. It’s more likely an investigation will probably find that there is a lack of confidence in his coaching ability. There is a big difference. Personally, I felt that the physical and mental demands were in alignment with what would be expected of a D1 collegiate athlete. Over the years, talking with the players on teams brought a new perspective and appreciation for how good we have it. In fact, he's arguably the most accommodating and flexible coach in the NCAA. I feel incredibly lucky that I had the opportunity to play hockey and get a great education at Penn State. The experience exceeded my expectations, and I'm grateful to every member of the staff for their dedication and support of me throughout my career.
Sincerely,
A senior
ZedLeppelin
Motormouth
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
You should approach the Collegian and offer your opinion there as well, so the story has some balance. As I said in an earlier comment, the opinions of the current graduating seniors on the team would add a lot to this story, regardless of which way their individual opinions go. You have no fear of retribution now that the season is over - encourage your fellow seniors to add their voices. This issue is dividing the team, and it's not a new issue - the sooner it gets resolved, the better it will be for this team so it can move forward and build on what you seniors started at Penn State.
You should approach the Collegian and offer your opinion there as well, so the story has some balance. As I said in an earlier comment, the opinions of the current graduating seniors on the team would add a lot to this story, regardless of which way their individual opinions go. You have no fear of retribution now that the season is over - encourage your fellow seniors to add their voices. This issue is dividing the team, and it's not a new issue - the sooner it gets resolved, the better it will be for this team so it can move forward and build on what you seniors started at Penn State.
I don't think he should ever have been given the job given his glaring lack of qualifications so I'm definitely not a supporter of this coach. At the same time I have a very hard time believing any players read this forum let alone create an account so they can post here too, so I don't believe this is a legit current player's post. There's something in the way it's written that makes me question it's legitimacy.
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
Not true. Several years ago, Rush Zimmerman from Providence logged on to comment on a HE thread focusing on the recently concluded HE tournament and Providence's attitude after they won the tournament. She gave a thoughtful response to some questionable posts from people who had an axe to grind. So some players do follow the threads from time to time. I have no way of knowing if this post belongs to a player or a post from someone with a 'dog in this fight'. The only person who knows for sure is the person who wrote the post.
Not true. Several years ago, Rush Zimmerman from Providence logged on to comment on a HE thread focusing on the recently concluded HE tournament and Providence's attitude after they won the tournament. She gave a thoughtful response to some questionable posts from people who had an axe to grind. So some players do follow the threads from time to time. I have no way of knowing if this post belongs to a player or a post from someone with a 'dog in this fight'. The only person who knows for sure is the person who wrote the post.
FireKnight
Let's go Tech!
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
I don't see anything in this article that indicates "emotional abuse", especially of adult athletes. I never played anything in college, as I was a fat lefty pitcher that barely made it to a high school field. However, I wasn't ever turned off by my coach saying that I had to work harder or I wasn't going to get any playing time.
I don't see anything in this article that indicates "emotional abuse", especially of adult athletes. I never played anything in college, as I was a fat lefty pitcher that barely made it to a high school field. However, I wasn't ever turned off by my coach saying that I had to work harder or I wasn't going to get any playing time.
HelloItsMe
New member
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
I can assure you this is a "legit current player's post". There will more where that came from, and there won't be any doubt about legitimacy. I don't know why it's so hard to believe this post. It should't be surprising that former members of the club team have very differing definition as to what constitutes emotional "abuse". Understandably, there is a different expectation and threshold for mental toughness among athletes of varying ability. In my opinion, the articles make that blatantly obvious. Everyone is wanting to hear from current members of the D1 team/graduating seniors, so I decided to break the silence. Whether you like him or not, lack of qualification as a coach does not equate to emotional abuse. There's a big difference. I'm trying to speak up for what is true, so yes I made an account and took the time to share my side.
I can assure you this is a "legit current player's post". There will more where that came from, and there won't be any doubt about legitimacy. I don't know why it's so hard to believe this post. It should't be surprising that former members of the club team have very differing definition as to what constitutes emotional "abuse". Understandably, there is a different expectation and threshold for mental toughness among athletes of varying ability. In my opinion, the articles make that blatantly obvious. Everyone is wanting to hear from current members of the D1 team/graduating seniors, so I decided to break the silence. Whether you like him or not, lack of qualification as a coach does not equate to emotional abuse. There's a big difference. I'm trying to speak up for what is true, so yes I made an account and took the time to share my side.
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
I have to say I share shelfit's suspicion. Your words don't ring 100% true. The cute screen name doesn't help. But whoever you are, you raise some important points.
Up front, it's crucial to remember that the facts of the story are in dispute. Those of us on the outside have only a first few glimpses of the situation. We may never have the full story. But for now, let me offer a few comments on what's been alleged.
If, in the coach's judgment, a player simply isn't good enough to play at the D-1 level, that's the coach's call. Certainly the player can ask for explanations, appeal for a second chance, and so on. But as long as the coach holds the position, his or her personnel decisions need to be respected. At the same time, the bad news needs to be delivered with respect. A dose of compassion would be highly desirable, but I can't say there's an entitlement to that.
The problem arises when a coach lacks the integrity to proceed as described above. Some coaches seem to lack the spine to exercise authority in a straightforward way. Instead, they try to destroy the player's confidence so the player will "voluntarily" quit -- thus sparing the coach the distress of making and carrying out the decision. It may also reflect feelings of insecurity on the coach's part. Unless it's crystal clear that a player is unqualified, the coach risks being second guessed. And some coaches would rather harm the player than run that risk. This is the nature of the complaints.
I'm sorry, but if true, this falls below the standards that apply to educators. And college coaches are educators. College hockey should be appreciably different than a cut throat professional league. Players should leave a college program better than they came, not ripped to shreds because a coach lacks the skill to properly exercise authority.
I should emphasize that I don't expect a head coach to be Mr./Ms. Congeniality. There's obviously a place for tough criticism in sports. "Pushing buttons" for motivational purposes, within limits, also goes with the territory. But when a college coach tries to intimidate a player into self-imposed exile, that's a dereliction of duty in my book.
Is an ongoing pattern of such problems a basis for non-renewal? I would say yes.
Naturally we all need to remain patient as the facts are gathered.
That said, it appears to me that those who are complaining are trying to make sense of what happened. In other words, to understand what went wrong, and to make peace with it. But this is very much a side issue. Every coach in D-1 had a first job, with every imaginable result, both good and bad.
Sometimes we can't help seeing all the way through?
I have to say I share shelfit's suspicion. Your words don't ring 100% true. The cute screen name doesn't help. But whoever you are, you raise some important points.
Up front, it's crucial to remember that the facts of the story are in dispute. Those of us on the outside have only a first few glimpses of the situation. We may never have the full story. But for now, let me offer a few comments on what's been alleged.
Fair point. But here's the issue, from my perspective. Cutting players from any sports team is always going to be stressful, regardless of sport, regardless of level. But in general, the coach is in a position of power. The player is in a position of vulnerability. With that power comes a certain amount of responsibility for the player's well-being.
If, in the coach's judgment, a player simply isn't good enough to play at the D-1 level, that's the coach's call. Certainly the player can ask for explanations, appeal for a second chance, and so on. But as long as the coach holds the position, his or her personnel decisions need to be respected. At the same time, the bad news needs to be delivered with respect. A dose of compassion would be highly desirable, but I can't say there's an entitlement to that.
The problem arises when a coach lacks the integrity to proceed as described above. Some coaches seem to lack the spine to exercise authority in a straightforward way. Instead, they try to destroy the player's confidence so the player will "voluntarily" quit -- thus sparing the coach the distress of making and carrying out the decision. It may also reflect feelings of insecurity on the coach's part. Unless it's crystal clear that a player is unqualified, the coach risks being second guessed. And some coaches would rather harm the player than run that risk. This is the nature of the complaints.
I'm sorry, but if true, this falls below the standards that apply to educators. And college coaches are educators. College hockey should be appreciably different than a cut throat professional league. Players should leave a college program better than they came, not ripped to shreds because a coach lacks the skill to properly exercise authority.
I should emphasize that I don't expect a head coach to be Mr./Ms. Congeniality. There's obviously a place for tough criticism in sports. "Pushing buttons" for motivational purposes, within limits, also goes with the territory. But when a college coach tries to intimidate a player into self-imposed exile, that's a dereliction of duty in my book.
Is an ongoing pattern of such problems a basis for non-renewal? I would say yes.
Naturally we all need to remain patient as the facts are gathered.
Quite so.
That said, it appears to me that those who are complaining are trying to make sense of what happened. In other words, to understand what went wrong, and to make peace with it. But this is very much a side issue. Every coach in D-1 had a first job, with every imaginable result, both good and bad.
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
Okay, so let's take you at your word. As someone who played club sports at a D-1 college, I agree with you that there is a difference between club and varsity level. A big difference. And there are always going to be players whose emotional IQ is such that they can't handle the demands of a D-1 program or approach to the sport. That said, your coach's admonishments to some of your teammates could have been phrased with more tact. If a player is overweight, there are better ways to encourage fitness training that telling someone to shed some pounds. And consistent communication is paramount if you want the team to buy into your philosophy and play as one. Brandwene could probably benefit from some interpersonal communication coaching but he isn't alone in playing favorites ... every coach has his/her go to players and that's not going to change with the next coach.
Okay, so let's take you at your word. As someone who played club sports at a D-1 college, I agree with you that there is a difference between club and varsity level. A big difference. And there are always going to be players whose emotional IQ is such that they can't handle the demands of a D-1 program or approach to the sport. That said, your coach's admonishments to some of your teammates could have been phrased with more tact. If a player is overweight, there are better ways to encourage fitness training that telling someone to shed some pounds. And consistent communication is paramount if you want the team to buy into your philosophy and play as one. Brandwene could probably benefit from some interpersonal communication coaching but he isn't alone in playing favorites ... every coach has his/her go to players and that's not going to change with the next coach.
Re: Another possibly problematic women's coach
"...he isn't alone in playing favorites ... every coach has his/her go to players and that's not going to change with the next coach."
If the word favorites is defined as a player that plays in any situation no matter how low her ability level is but the coach has a soft spot in his/her heart for that player (as we've all seen many times) then yes I have a problem with playing favorites but if favorites is defined as the best players with the best abilities and skills then I have a very hard time with that word being used. If you're consistently better than your peers and are therefore in the top 5 on the team's depth chart then you have earned the right to play in every situation. Nothing wrong with that. That's the way it should be in collegiate athletics. The best players should play the most minutes/situations. That's called making the right decision from an athletic point of view.
"...he isn't alone in playing favorites ... every coach has his/her go to players and that's not going to change with the next coach."
If the word favorites is defined as a player that plays in any situation no matter how low her ability level is but the coach has a soft spot in his/her heart for that player (as we've all seen many times) then yes I have a problem with playing favorites but if favorites is defined as the best players with the best abilities and skills then I have a very hard time with that word being used. If you're consistently better than your peers and are therefore in the top 5 on the team's depth chart then you have earned the right to play in every situation. Nothing wrong with that. That's the way it should be in collegiate athletics. The best players should play the most minutes/situations. That's called making the right decision from an athletic point of view.