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Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed
- Thread starter Caustic Undertow
- Start date
Get ready for the logistical experts...
Nothings perfect but attendance should be much better, especially having 2 games the last day instead of 1.
SCSU Euro
New member
Hockeybuckeye
Well-known member
Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed
Love how Ohio state gets stuck out west and last place Bowling Green gets the closest regional! OSU better get smart and start hosting so they can't get shipped off. Huntington Center in Toledo would be perfect for a Midwest regional and it's not a dump like US Bank Arena in Cincinnati!
Love how Ohio state gets stuck out west and last place Bowling Green gets the closest regional! OSU better get smart and start hosting so they can't get shipped off. Huntington Center in Toledo would be perfect for a Midwest regional and it's not a dump like US Bank Arena in Cincinnati!
Last edited:
manurespreader
Still upright
Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed
It was held there about three years ago, but I don't think it was successful.
Hockeybuckeye
Well-known member
Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed
How do you judge success? At most regionals after the first day half the fans typically bail when the first two teams are eliminated.
ticapnews
Never Forget!
Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed
Or do it like Champions League and assign positions to leagues based on past performance.
NCHC: 4
HEA: 3
ECAC: 3
B1G: 3
WCHA: 2
AHA: 1
So
1 SCSU
2 UMD
3 Mankato
4 UMA
5 Clarkson
6 NE
7 Quinnipiac
8 Denver
9 Ohio State
10 Cornell
11 Notre Dame
12 PC
13 BGSU
14 Penn State
15 WMU
16 AIC
(Sorry Arizona State and Harvard; to the Europa League with you)
Following UEFA procedure I assigned these randomly. Intraconference games are fine. Teams in bold host the first leg of the tie.
#1 St Cloud vs #10 Cornell
#2 UMD vs #11 Notre Dame
#3 Mankato vs #9 Ohio State
#4 Massachusetts vs #16 AIC
#5 Clarkson vs #14 Penn State
#6 Northeastern vs #15 Western Michigan
#7 Quinnipiac vs #13 Bowling Green
#8 Denver vs #12 Providence
1st Leg: 26/27 March
2nd Leg: 30/31 March
2 games, Total goals, Away goal rules
Redraw after the Round of 16.
Or do it like Champions League and assign positions to leagues based on past performance.
NCHC: 4
HEA: 3
ECAC: 3
B1G: 3
WCHA: 2
AHA: 1
So
1 SCSU
2 UMD
3 Mankato
4 UMA
5 Clarkson
6 NE
7 Quinnipiac
8 Denver
9 Ohio State
10 Cornell
11 Notre Dame
12 PC
13 BGSU
14 Penn State
15 WMU
16 AIC
(Sorry Arizona State and Harvard; to the Europa League with you)
Following UEFA procedure I assigned these randomly. Intraconference games are fine. Teams in bold host the first leg of the tie.
#1 St Cloud vs #10 Cornell
#2 UMD vs #11 Notre Dame
#3 Mankato vs #9 Ohio State
#4 Massachusetts vs #16 AIC
#5 Clarkson vs #14 Penn State
#6 Northeastern vs #15 Western Michigan
#7 Quinnipiac vs #13 Bowling Green
#8 Denver vs #12 Providence
1st Leg: 26/27 March
2nd Leg: 30/31 March
2 games, Total goals, Away goal rules
Redraw after the Round of 16.
ticapnews
Never Forget!
Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed
It's actually pretty sizable. In 2017 there were 6543 fans on the first day (Providence lost) and only 3708 the next day. By contrast in 2015 when Providence won both games, attendance for the first day was 7908 and stayed strong at 6326 on day two. So attendance fell 44% without them vs 20% with them. Numbers large enough for the NCAA not to ignore.
It's actually pretty sizable. In 2017 there were 6543 fans on the first day (Providence lost) and only 3708 the next day. By contrast in 2015 when Providence won both games, attendance for the first day was 7908 and stayed strong at 6326 on day two. So attendance fell 44% without them vs 20% with them. Numbers large enough for the NCAA not to ignore.
I believe Miami, Notre Dame, and SCSU were there. Can't remember the the 4th team. Place wasn't even half full, and SCSU had the largest fan base in attendance.
Bowling Green was the host. If BG starts consistently making the tourney, they will host there again and sellout.
ticapnews
Never Forget!
Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed
Notre Dame, Miami, Mankato and St Cloud. SCSU upset Notre Dame and Miami to advance to the Frozen Four.
Attendance was 2988 and 2460 (out of 7389 capacity)
Notre Dame, Miami, Mankato and St Cloud. SCSU upset Notre Dame and Miami to advance to the Frozen Four.
Attendance was 2988 and 2460 (out of 7389 capacity)
WeAreNDHockey
\../ \../
Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed
Minnesota State was the 4th team. To say the place wasn't half full is far too kind. As Notre Dame was sleepwalking through their 17-1 loss to St.Cloud (OK it just seemed that bad, I think it might have been 5-1) I got tremendously bored and counted the "crowd." Twice. Once late in the second period and once early in the third period. Both times I counted around 800 people. The boxscore attendance for that game is sheer fantasy. No way 3000 people paid inflated NCAA regional ticket prices and then did not show up. They made up the number. It was a complete disaster.
For the life of me I can't imagine why anyone bids on an NCAA regional. Anyone who has ever read the host manual knows why I think that. You have to guarantee the NCAA a minimum amount of money and if you don't sell enough tickets or merchandise to do so, you pay out of your own pocket. After you reach the minimum guarantee, it isn't like you get to keep the rest. No, you have to share most of the revenue you generated with the NCAA. After you give them their cut of left over revenue after you met the minimum, hopefully you have enough left over to pay all of the expenses. If not, your loss. If by some miracle you actually then still have some money left over, the sharing ain't over yet. You STILL have to share some of it with the NCAA.
Notre Dame has hosted two of these and the first was awful, in Fort Wayne and even with Miami and Michigan, no one showed up. They got smart when they hosted again at the Compton, which the NCAA allowed because due to their greed and the extreme niche status of our sport. They charged their entire season ticket base $45 for NCAA tickets. They generated nearly $100,000 doing so. But due to Notre Dame crapping the bed that season, Notre Dame was golfing while their rink was hosting. Did fans get a refund? Of course not. The games were still played. By my count there weren't a dozen season ticket holders in the building for both games. As anyone with eyes knows, 95% of the fans out there are almost exclusively fans of their team, not of the sport. Years ago I remember going to plenty of conference or NCAA tournament events in different sports with multiple games and 4 or 8 teams. You often saw plenty of people stay for the whole event, or at the very least I would see basketball fans stay for at least 2 of four games. Not anymore. And people spending less time in the building means fewer concessions get sold.
For me, if I'm in the building I'd rather have packed stands and a great atmosphere. And that means campus sites for higher seeds. But I also know if there were twice as many sites, and the tournament wasn't single elimination the TV coverage would suffer greatly. It isn't perfect now, but it allows you to watch at least parts of all the games, and most or all of most of them. It's a great three days, in my opinion and the play far outclasses the men's basketball tournament. Our tournament has become one of the best things going, with the mix of teams that can win, and all of the upsets. 1500 people in an 8000 seat arena sucks, but 99% of us will watch this on TV and not in person, so I have come to accept it.
Minnesota State was the 4th team. To say the place wasn't half full is far too kind. As Notre Dame was sleepwalking through their 17-1 loss to St.Cloud (OK it just seemed that bad, I think it might have been 5-1) I got tremendously bored and counted the "crowd." Twice. Once late in the second period and once early in the third period. Both times I counted around 800 people. The boxscore attendance for that game is sheer fantasy. No way 3000 people paid inflated NCAA regional ticket prices and then did not show up. They made up the number. It was a complete disaster.
For the life of me I can't imagine why anyone bids on an NCAA regional. Anyone who has ever read the host manual knows why I think that. You have to guarantee the NCAA a minimum amount of money and if you don't sell enough tickets or merchandise to do so, you pay out of your own pocket. After you reach the minimum guarantee, it isn't like you get to keep the rest. No, you have to share most of the revenue you generated with the NCAA. After you give them their cut of left over revenue after you met the minimum, hopefully you have enough left over to pay all of the expenses. If not, your loss. If by some miracle you actually then still have some money left over, the sharing ain't over yet. You STILL have to share some of it with the NCAA.
Notre Dame has hosted two of these and the first was awful, in Fort Wayne and even with Miami and Michigan, no one showed up. They got smart when they hosted again at the Compton, which the NCAA allowed because due to their greed and the extreme niche status of our sport. They charged their entire season ticket base $45 for NCAA tickets. They generated nearly $100,000 doing so. But due to Notre Dame crapping the bed that season, Notre Dame was golfing while their rink was hosting. Did fans get a refund? Of course not. The games were still played. By my count there weren't a dozen season ticket holders in the building for both games. As anyone with eyes knows, 95% of the fans out there are almost exclusively fans of their team, not of the sport. Years ago I remember going to plenty of conference or NCAA tournament events in different sports with multiple games and 4 or 8 teams. You often saw plenty of people stay for the whole event, or at the very least I would see basketball fans stay for at least 2 of four games. Not anymore. And people spending less time in the building means fewer concessions get sold.
For me, if I'm in the building I'd rather have packed stands and a great atmosphere. And that means campus sites for higher seeds. But I also know if there were twice as many sites, and the tournament wasn't single elimination the TV coverage would suffer greatly. It isn't perfect now, but it allows you to watch at least parts of all the games, and most or all of most of them. It's a great three days, in my opinion and the play far outclasses the men's basketball tournament. Our tournament has become one of the best things going, with the mix of teams that can win, and all of the upsets. 1500 people in an 8000 seat arena sucks, but 99% of us will watch this on TV and not in person, so I have come to accept it.
ticapnews
Never Forget!
Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed
^^^^^^ This. So much this.
^^^^^^ This. So much this.
ExileOnDaytonStreet
Drunkard
I was about to dismiss this thread as a large, collective wet fart until I read that comment. Well done, NDHockey
Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed
And apparently it can't be repeated often enough. I get that a number of good hockey people are hungry for an accessible regional, including good people from my own fanbase. But it is urgently important that we remember the history as it actually occurred. No matter how well intentioned, white washing history just leads to repeating past mistakes.
1500 people in an 8000 seat arena is exactly the kind of result that the current format routinely generates. I've long given up on attending regionals, and instead watch on TV. Unless there's meaningful reform of the current format, I won't be back. Put the games in locations where fans will actually attend, or count me out. For those of us in the CCHA states, and in most of the Midwest, it's the rational response.
I do need to partially dissent on one point. I "accept" the current system in the sense that I enjoy the telecasts and am grateful for them. But I would gladly trade away some of my TV coverage if things could be made better for the players, coaches & fans actually at the tournament sites.
Thank you for an outstanding post.
Truth.
And apparently it can't be repeated often enough. I get that a number of good hockey people are hungry for an accessible regional, including good people from my own fanbase. But it is urgently important that we remember the history as it actually occurred. No matter how well intentioned, white washing history just leads to repeating past mistakes.
1500 people in an 8000 seat arena is exactly the kind of result that the current format routinely generates. I've long given up on attending regionals, and instead watch on TV. Unless there's meaningful reform of the current format, I won't be back. Put the games in locations where fans will actually attend, or count me out. For those of us in the CCHA states, and in most of the Midwest, it's the rational response.
I do need to partially dissent on one point. I "accept" the current system in the sense that I enjoy the telecasts and am grateful for them. But I would gladly trade away some of my TV coverage if things could be made better for the players, coaches & fans actually at the tournament sites.
Thank you for an outstanding post.
Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed
We've already seen the switch to basically three eastern regionals. Not sticking up for the NCAA but the eastern sites keep putting in bids. Worcester, Manchester, Bridgeport, Providence, Allentown. They keep bidding.
I suppose with the changing landscape of big programs not always making the tournament, North Dakota could decide it's not worth hosting. If that happens I think the whole format will finally crumble. Unless there are true midwest/western sites that start bidding again.
We've already seen the switch to basically three eastern regionals. Not sticking up for the NCAA but the eastern sites keep putting in bids. Worcester, Manchester, Bridgeport, Providence, Allentown. They keep bidding.
I suppose with the changing landscape of big programs not always making the tournament, North Dakota could decide it's not worth hosting. If that happens I think the whole format will finally crumble. Unless there are true midwest/western sites that start bidding again.
ExileOnDaytonStreet
Drunkard
Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed
Maybe the West needs a 6-game/8-team super-regional?
Maybe the West needs a 6-game/8-team super-regional?
ExileOnDaytonStreet
Drunkard
Re: Annual thread in which the absurdity of the current regional system is discussed
Looking at reported attendance for the past few years, I’m going to challenge the notion that it’s a problem for the venues.
Reported attendance in recent years hasn’t been horrible (other than in Cincinnati and one time in St Paul for some reason). I would tend to trust reported numbers for NCAA regionals (at least for tickets sold) since there’s a huge, NCAA-shaped disincentive for the venues to inflate the numbers.
Now, butts in seats and the atmosphere (and concession revenue) could still be an issue, but that’s of minimal concern to the NCAA in terms of how they view profitability of the regional system.
I’ll pool the numbers during my lunch break.
Looking at reported attendance for the past few years, I’m going to challenge the notion that it’s a problem for the venues.
Reported attendance in recent years hasn’t been horrible (other than in Cincinnati and one time in St Paul for some reason). I would tend to trust reported numbers for NCAA regionals (at least for tickets sold) since there’s a huge, NCAA-shaped disincentive for the venues to inflate the numbers.
Now, butts in seats and the atmosphere (and concession revenue) could still be an issue, but that’s of minimal concern to the NCAA in terms of how they view profitability of the regional system.
I’ll pool the numbers during my lunch break.