A 16 Team NCAA Tournament, Yes or No?

[ARM]

Last time an 8 seed won: 2007 (UMD over #2 Mercyhurst) (I think I determined the bottom seeds by record)

Don't know about this year, but prior to that, they only seeded the top four. The rest just were put where it was most convenient to whatever they were doing. I think that BC was the last team into the bracket in 2007. The Eagles also won, so it doesn't really change your stat, but it was over #3 Dartmouth. Top-seeded Wisconsin was paired with Harvard, who definitely was NOT the final team into the bracket.

 

[TitleIXHockey]

Don't know about this year, but prior to that, they only seeded the top four. The rest just were put where it was most convenient to whatever they were doing. I think that BC was the last team into the bracket in 2007. The Eagles also won, so it doesn't really change your stat, but it was over #3 Dartmouth. Top-seeded Wisconsin was paired with Harvard, who definitely was NOT the final team into the bracket.

Yeah, I thought about mentioning BC. Harvard took Wisconsin to 4OT before losing 1-0 as well and the only blowout was St. Lawrence over New Hampshire 6-2 which I think was 5 over 4. That was also the tournament record for OTs with 7 total, all in the first round.

 

[TitleIXHockey]

Also, looking at 18-19, I forget who was first out among BU, Providence, and Ohio State, but OSU was 1-2-2 against top seed Wisconsin that year. BU had two ties against #3 Northeastern and Providence had a win over Northeastern so it's not like those teams are complete duds.

So that year might have been something like

1. Wisconsin
St. Anselm

Ohio State
BU

4. Clarkson
Robert Morris

5. Boston College
Merrimack

3. Northeastern
Mercyhurst

6. Cornell
Colgate

7. Princeton
Providence

2. Minnesota
Syracuse

 

[ARM]

Also, looking at 18-19 ... it's not like those teams are complete duds.

So that year might have been something like

1. Wisconsin
St. Anselm
...

I think that if you have to reach down and take St. Anselm, a team that didn't play full-time D-I teams, lost to three D-III teams, and wasn't all that competitive versus Hamline, then it may be a sign that 16 is too many.

 

[TitleIXHockey]

I think that if you have to reach down and take St. Anselm, a team that didn't play full-time D-I teams, lost to three D-III teams, and wasn't all that competitive versus Hamline, then it may be a sign that 16 is too many.

NEWHA is an active D1 conference who will likely get an autobid once they play 2 season with the same 6 (+) members (and play enough contests against DI/II schools) per NCAA requirements. https://www.newhaonline.com/general/2019-20/releases/0904NCAAElectionD1 They were the NEWHA champion that season and would have made the tournament per the rules we are likely to have moving forward with 8 teams, let alone 16.

 

[Offsides Guy]

NEWHA is an active D1 conference who will likely get an autobid once they play 2 season with the same 6 (+) members (and play enough contests against DI/II schools) per NCAA requirements. https://www.newhaonline.com/general/2019-20/releases/0904NCAAElectionD1 They were the NEWHA champion that season and would have made the tournament per the rules we are likely to have moving forward with 8 teams, let alone 16.

And, sorry, but their participation would have been an embarrassment given some of the teams that wouldn’t have been there. The tournament would be better off without autobids in general.

 

[TitleIXHockey]

And, sorry, but their participation would have been an embarrassment given some of the teams that wouldn’t have been there. The tournament would be better off without autobids in general.

Like I said, with a 16 team tournament or even a 10 team tournament the impact is minimal.

I like the NEWHA teams. They're obviously a cut below everyone else, but they're fun, and they've already put a couple of players in the pros, notably Bridgette Prentiss from Franklin Pierce.

 

[Offsides Guy]

Like I said, with a 16 team tournament or even a 10 team tournament the impact is minimal.

I like the NEWHA teams. They're obviously a cut below everyone else, but they're fun, and they've already put a couple of players in the pros, notably Bridgette Prentiss from Franklin Pierce.

I know I’m going to sound like a jerk but wouldn’t all of the NEWHA teams better belong at the D3 level?

 

[D2D]

Not that it means diddly squat, but I vote "No". Go back to pure Pairwise, for the top 8 teams , but with NO travel considerations when it comes to seeding them.

 

[pgb-ohio]

My higher priority would be to fund the current quarterfinals to eliminate the "reduce flights" requirement. Until we get rid of that, an expanded tournament is more likely to just pit conference foes against each other in play-in games that don't accomplish much beyond the league tourneys.

This. Absolutely, Positively, This.


But suppose we do expand to 10 or 12 teams. Then the first round games need to have their own weekend.

The Men's tournament had 12 teams for a period of years. Much too often those tournaments had tired team vs. rested team match-ups, due to byes. Much too often this factor had a major impact on the games.

Yes, Men play hockey too. But there's no reason that Women's Hockey needs to repeat the mistakes made by Men's Hockey. When history is available, learn from it.

 

[ARM]

NEWHA is an active D1 conference who will likely get an autobid once they play 2 season with the same 6 (+) members (and play enough contests against DI/II schools) per NCAA requirements. https://www.newhaonline.com/general/2019-20/releases/0904NCAAElectionD1 They were the NEWHA champion that season and would have made the tournament per the rules we are likely to have moving forward with 8 teams, let alone 16.

I understand that the NEWHA Champion will make the tournament in the future, presumably in 2023 if it stays intact. However, in 2019, the league didn't have a bid, and under the rules, St. Anselm made no attempt to play the required number of 20 D-I and D-II games, beyond facing others in the five-team (at that time) NEWHA.

I realize your post (no pun intended) was hypothetical, but sending in a sacrificial lamb to face Wisconsin doesn't sound like fun to me.

 

[zambonidriver]

So i read the article and I couldn't believe that the Comissioner for the NEWHA and the CHA is the same person.
Now I understand why the CHA is a second rate conference.

 

[Lindsay]

Why would they have same
commissioner? Don’t really understand that.

Pretty ridiculous the 5 auto bids that are actually 4 thing. Sounds like there are multiple things to sort out with women’s tourney.

I’m a no on 16, but maybe 12, all seeded? Some convincing stuff here. The 2019 tourney was very competitive, just the blowouts of Wisc over Cuse and Clarkson and that had a lot to do with Wisc strength, not opposition weakness. I think you do want to leave room for a Cinderella, don’t need perfect parity.

it’s a slightly different topic, but in my view US has a rink shortage. So I don’t know how women’s college hockey is going to grow past a
certain point no matter how
many teams we add to tourney.

 

[ARM]

it’s a slightly different topic, but in my view US has a rink shortage. So I don’t know how women’s college hockey is going to grow past a
certain point no matter how
many teams we add to tourney.

And the reliance on ice is part of what makes it an expensive sport for kids, which cuts down participation numbers compared to soccer or basketball, even if one can expose more youth to the game.

 

[D2D]

And the reliance on ice is part of what makes it an expensive sport for kids, which cuts down participation numbers compared to soccer or basketball, even if one can expose more youth to the game.

Less so in the Twin Cities where indoor ice is so available. This shows just how prevalent ice is here - fun tool and map if you haven't seen it.

https://rinkfinder.com/