5 dollar gas...are we ready?

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

No idea what Bilderberg is... but If I were to invest .. it would be the integrated oil companies (xom,bp, shell, cop). they control most of the refining capacity and really control the refining margin (1)crack spread.
Although refiners would be a pure play on gasoline (refined product) prices... they really don't have control over refining margin except in few regional areas where they dominate. (TSO in AK etc...). Plus the recent gasoline prices might suggest digestion of the record profit refining margin by the oil integrated... plus it's an election year.

We hit $4 gasoline in 2008 with oil $145... hit $4 gasoline in 2011 with oil $114. so there is your (1) crack spread (gross margin, refining margin, profit margin)... at all time high.

If you look at the 1year chart. it's clear they didn't drop gasoline price with the drop in oil, But recently they are not letting gasoline price rise with the recent oil rise... which might signal rest period of refining margin increases.

Very true. Lately I've only been going for the harvesting royalties, but mostly because I'm looking for dividends.

As for Bilderberg, there are some rumors going around that the group (which consists of pretty much the richest people in the world, no rumor about that) has been pining for $7/gallon gasoline and getting the public's support under the guise known as "climate change". In short, they supposedly want the world to be third-world countries (I'm assuming with the exception of the tropical paradises).

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

The pipeline isn't dead yet...

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/228011/group/homepage/

 

[unh_hockey]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

I can't believe its been a year already since I posted this thread. After this winter, it seems that high gas prices are here to stay despite a decrease in demand. A couple of thoughts in bullet form:

- Someone had mentioned refining costs earlier on. I heard that several in the north east have shut down and were losing money. This might bump prices up in the Atlantic states and in new England.

- While the US has an elastic demand ( i.e it fell after 2008), it seems China's showing steady growth and continues to consume more. This could be a factor in why costs are going up.

- The US has buttloads of natural gas and could, in theory, start development of methanol (flex fuel) cars. Anyone know anything about the open fuel standard act? The premise seems good; develop auto engines capable of accepting other fuels. However, I am not sure something that mandates manufacturers to force them to produce something is constitutional. I have read very little, and am going to dig into it more. The take away here is that fuel using methanol could be significantly cheaper for consumers.

- Lastly, have American's adjusted themselves so another oil price shock doesn't hurt their day to day lives? I have some co workers that drives 50 miles each way in order to get to work. They earn good money, but that still takes a toll on what they bring home. The general feeling for folks is that MPG and range is important in a car, and many of them own cars that get good economy. I still own my WRX, but drive 2 miles to work for the time being. Once the memorial bridge is back in Portsmouth, i'll probably end up going back to the bicycle to get to work.

Just to be clear, I am still not a supporter of corn ethanol

 

[Twitch Boy]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

Can we get some of those Occupy kids going after the oil/gas companies and the speculators?

They want to win public support back, that's the way right there.

Eh, they probably secretly love these prices.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

Can we get some of those Occupy kids going after the oil/gas companies and the speculators?

They want to win public support back, that's the way right there.

Eh, they probably secretly love these prices.

This. From "C" to "."

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

I love how it's big oil, speculation, and "those evil greedy corporations", and we need to go back to the gas prices we had in the late 60's.

At this point, if you didn't prepare after what happened in 2008 and you're still complaining, you're the grasshopper, and the rest of us are the ants, to paraphrase the old fable.

Everyone knows Bilderberg wants $7/gallon gasoline and wants to turn us into a third world country (of course we're pretty much already there).

 

[aparch]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

Everyone knows Bilderberg wants $7/gallon gasoline and wants to turn us into a third world country (of course we're pretty much already there).

In my World Health* class senior year of college (2005), by every statistical measure taken, the US already WAS the richest third world nation. I don't think much has improved in seven years.


* (It was basically a discussion of World Politics, and how it related to healthcare/treatment of citizens within the nations).

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

The pipeline isn't dead yet...

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/228011/group/homepage/

Let's hope so. To crater that pipeline was one of Obama's stupidest moves yet. Nothing like telling Canada, our most reliable supplier of natural resources, to go sell to the Chinese instead of us. Can we really be this dumb as a country? The answer sadly is yes.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

Let's hope so. To crater that pipeline was one of Obama's stupidest moves yet. Nothing like telling Canada, our most reliable supplier of natural resources, to go sell to the Chinese instead of us. Can we really be this dumb as a country? The answer sadly is yes.

That's Obummer for ya.

Perhaps Chuck Woolery has an idea to help out:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fQF8bF1E280" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

In my World Health* class senior year of college (2005), by every statistical measure taken, the US already WAS the richest third world nation. I don't think much has improved in seven years.


* (It was basically a discussion of World Politics, and how it related to healthcare/treatment of citizens within the nations).

So basically an old hippie talking about how corporations are evil and poor people should get a bunch of free stuff because of it?

 

[St. Clown]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

I love how it's big oil, speculation, and "those evil greedy corporations", and we need to go back to the gas prices we had in the late 60's.

At this point, if you didn't prepare after what happened in 2008 and you're still complaining, you're the grasshopper, and the rest of us are the ants, to paraphrase the old fable.

Everyone knows Bilderberg wants $7/gallon gasoline and wants to turn us into a third world country (of course we're pretty much already there).

Gasoline prices would probably be around $0.50-0.75/gallon cheaper if we stopped warmongering in the Middle East. There's a lot of uncertainty staring at the oil supply right now and commodities markets don't do well with uncertainty.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

Gasoline prices would probably be around $0.50-0.75/gallon cheaper if we stopped warmongering in the Middle East. There's a lot of uncertainty staring at the oil supply right now and commodities markets don't do well with uncertainty.

If we stopped printing money it would cut about another $.50 off the top as well.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

If we stopped printing money it would cut about another $.50 off the top as well.

At least. Dollar devaluation is going to be a huge and growing problem down the road. You already see talk every so often form oil producing countries about how they wish oil wasn't priced in dollars, given the dollar's weakness.

 

[unofan]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

If we stopped printing money it would cut about another $.50 off the top as well.

Please. If it were strictly the inflationary pressure then everything would be higher.

The biggest driver at this point is demand from India, China, and other developing countries. U.S. demand has decreased a tiny bit each of the last 3 years. But those decreases are dwarfed by the increase in third world use.

Let's hope so. To crater that pipeline was one of Obama's stupidest moves yet. Nothing like telling Canada, our most reliable supplier of natural resources, to go sell to the Chinese instead of us. Can we really be this dumb as a country? The answer sadly is yes.

While I don't dispute the pipeline itself probably should happen, potentially poisoning the Ogallala Aquifer isn't exactly the best tradeoff in the world, either. If there's a route which doesn't cross directly over the major portion of that underground lake, why not use it?

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

Please. If it were strictly the inflationary pressure then everything would be higher.

The biggest driver at this point is demand from India, China, and other developing countries. U.S. demand has decreased a tiny bit each of the last 3 years. But those decreases are dwarfed by the increase in third world use.

While I don't dispute the pipeline itself probably should happen, potentially poisoning the Ogallala Aquifer isn't exactly the best tradeoff in the world, either. If there's a route which doesn't cross directly over the major portion of that underground lake, why not use it?

It's a pipe. They're not filtering oil through the aquifer or something. Pipelines can be built very safely and with relatively little environmental disturbance, and I'm sure they'd bend over backwards to build it very carefully through Nebraska. Especially new pipelines are build with all sorts of monitoring, and they keep incredibly detailed records of every weld on the line, etc. Just another case of BANANA. If they were honest, they'd say they oppose it because they don't want to do anything that promotes the use of fossil fuels. But if Obama was honest and said that, he wouldn't get reelected because it's show how out of touch he is.

The aquifer thing is really just a red herring. If that wasn't there, Obama would have found some other excuse to crater it.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

While I don't dispute the pipeline itself probably should happen, potentially poisoning the Ogallala Aquifer isn't exactly the best tradeoff in the world, either. If there's a route which doesn't cross directly over the major portion of that underground lake, why not use it?

Who said they even have to go through Nebraska? Why not give some jobs to the people in Idaho, Montana, and North Dakota by building refineries there? I mean, there's a refinery just outside Buffalo, so I highly doubt that the weather has anything to do with it.

 

[aparch]

So basically an old hippie talking about how corporations are evil and poor people should get a bunch of free stuff because of it?

Actually no, it wound up becoming a discussion of how the "help" groups around the world are so out of touch that they don't realize that they're trampling over the culture by trying to "improve" the third world nations by using Western means, instead of learning about the cultures first. And, how the US is largely ignored by these groups even though it fits the "help" groups requirements.

Now, the one hippie professor who did come in to give a one day talk about North Africa seemed more interested in discussing her "year long sabatical" ... Which sounded like she slept her way across the Sahara...



Anyway to the topic at hand, Chicagoland is #1 in the nation for gas prices, with most outer ring suburbs asking $4.39 a gallon. It's $4.77+ in the city.

 

[Almington]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

Who said they even have to go through Nebraska? Why not give some jobs to the people in Idaho, Montana, and North Dakota by building refineries there? I mean, there's a refinery just outside Buffalo, so I highly doubt that the weather has anything to do with it.

You either have to ship the crude or you have to ship the refined product. In both cases, pipelines are the most efficient method of transport.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

You either have to ship the crude or you have to ship the refined product. In both cases, pipelines are the most efficient method of transport.

A lot of people don't realize that we already have millions of miles of pipelines in this country and that pipeline safety standards have been tightened up a lot in recent years, requiring a lot more inspections, etc.

 

[jmh]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

If they were honest, they'd say they oppose it because they don't want to do anything that promotes the use of fossil fuels. But if Obama was honest and said that, he wouldn't get reelected because it's show how out of touch he is.

He wouldn't get reelected because of how unwilling to face the future the electorate is.