2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Sure it's just like saying that about the mortgage.....except it isn't. We aren't behind on our payments. It's like buying a bigger house every year and taking out a bigger mortgage every time, but still being able to pay it. Is it sustainable over the long term? No. I don't think anyone is saying that. But other than very slowly and over a long period of time how would you propose tackling the issue? Any "quick" fix to get rid of the deficit is going to have major impacts that won't help the situation. We are at a point where talking about reducing the debt shouldnt even be part of the discussion, the discussion should be about how to best reduce the deficit. Even that is not a short term git-r-dun thing, it will take time. I fail to see how at least starting to move in the right direction is disastrous for the country?

Except there is little real, honest talk about knocking this down. They always commit to reducing things ten years down the road and then within a few years that deal is forgotten and the next batch of politicians coming into the Beltway make the situation worse by spending more without finding matching revenue (that's another discussion of course). As bad as the numbers are, and they are pretty awful, the tone and lack of gumption amongst most politicians to even talk honestly about the problem is to me even more unsettling. There is no political will to address this or even talk about it honestly.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Big problems that take decades to create are big problems that will take decades to fix. Are you saying that since we cant fix it by tomorrow we shouldn't even try?

Heck, no. I'm saying we should try harder, and that we need real leaders to step up, take on special interests, and be honest with the people that more short-term pain is necessary and worth it in order to avoid longer term disaster. Instead, we get timid half-measures because OMFG the poll numbers! I can't blame any president for not getting a balanced budget passed (since it requires agreement from at least 269 other people to get it done) , but I can definitely blame a president for not even *proposing* one. Even if you don't get it passed, that would at least frame the debate and the resulting compromise would be a whole lot closer to fiscal sanity.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Heck, no. I'm saying we should try harder, and that we need real leaders to step up, take on special interests, and be honest with the people that more short-term pain is necessary and worth it in order to avoid longer term disaster. Instead, we get timid half-measures because OMFG the poll numbers! I can't blame any president for not getting a balanced budget passed (since it requires agreement from at least 269 other people to get it done) , but I can definitely blame a president for not even *proposing* one. Even if you don't get it passed, that would at least frame the debate and the resulting compromise would be a whole lot closer to fiscal sanity.

Wow, we're speaking in lock-step on this one! Now that doesn't happen every day!

 

[jerphisch]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

wow, we're backing away from our crazy going in position to something much more reasonable in lock-step on this one! Now that doesn't happen every day!

fyp

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

fyp

not backing away from anything. I don't get what you think you fixed.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

It makes zero sense to propose a balanced budget that has no hope of getting passed. I'd prefer to deal in the world of reality instead of fantasy.

What the country needs to do is gradually bring down the deficit, and then if/when we get a surplus don't blow it on tax cuts for GOP campaign contributors under the talking point of "its the people's money". Its the people's debt too, and it can't be paid down with gimmicky tax policies.

So, if that has to be done piecemeal, so be it. Its not the way I would do it, but if I had all encompassing power over every living thing (great SNL skit w/Steve Martin) tax policy would be pretty far down my list. Score settling might be a bit higher.

The country could easily cut the annual deficit in half with some painless changes to existing law. Get rid of oil/AG/carried interest tax breaks, limit total deductions, allow Medicare to bargain for prescription drugs, tort reform, wind down war spending, etc. The rest can be taken care of with increased growth which is already happening. The Bush fiscal years were, in a word, ruinous. That doesn't turn around in a day, and if you try to do too much too quick you get the British economy, which is dead in the water.

Lastly, the mortgage analogy is an interesting one. The US has proven natural resouces reserves of many times what the total debt is. So, could you keep taking out a bigger mortgage year after year if you have 5 times the value of your house in other assets? To quote a popular conservative thinker, You Betcha! ;D

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Because we are turning the Titanic here. Yes the debt has grown, but the deficit has gotten smaller every year. The only way to eventually shrink the debt is to turn the deficit into a surplus, and I don't see how you can say we are getting WORSE when it comes to that?? We are at least moving in the right direction, how is that worse than when we were sprinting away from the finish line?

Correct. Obama has passed no legislation that I am aware of that have the cost drivers that Medicare Part D, NCLB, and two wars do. It's not even close. The bills for those 4 things alone will be paying for the next 10 decades or more.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Correct. Obama has passed no legislation that I am aware of that have the cost drivers that Medicare Part D, NCLB, and two wars do. It's not even close. The bills for those 4 things alone will be paying for the next 10 decades or more.

We're paying for a large chunk of everything the federal government is doing now for the next 10 decades, given that, what, 43 cents out of every dollars the feds spend (saw that simetime in the last year or two) is borrowed. The disconnect is so staggering that almost no politician and little of the public is willing to face the realities of what is going on.

Take off your partisan rose-colored glasses just for a moment. This train wreck is both parties fault and neither is showing much inclination or interest in fixing it.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

We're paying for a large chunk of everything the federal government is doing now for the next 10 decades, given that, what, 43 cents out of every dollars the feds spend (saw that simetime in the last year or two) is borrowed. The disconnect is so staggering that almost no politician and little of the public is willing to face the realities of what is going on.

And name one policy that's happened in either of the last two Presidencies that addresses any of that?

Simple. There is none.

Now name one Obama driven piece of legislation that comes anywhere near the (4) things Bush did to explode the debt.

Simple. There is none.

Thanks for playing.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

And name one policy that's happened in either of the last two Presidencies that addresses any of that?

Simple. There is none.

Now name one Obama driven piece of legislation that comes anywhere near the (4) things Bush did to explode the debt.

Simple. There is none.

Thanks for playing.

So the exploding federal deficit under Obama just came from nowhere? You really do live in fantasy land. Try listening to a speech by Obama without hearing him promise more federal goodies to people. It'll be a tough, if not impossible task. But, hey, stick your head in the sand and pretend the federal budget would be in great shape if your Dems were running everything.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

So the exploding federal deficit under Obama just came from nowhere? You really do live in fantasy land. Try listening to a speech by Obama without hearing him promise more federal goodies to people. It'll be a tough, if not impossible task. But, hey, stick your head in the sand and pretend the federal budget would be in great shape if your Dems were running everything.

Name the legislation. I named 4 from Bush that were completely unpaid for. At least Obamacare raised taxes, fees etc to help pay for it.

I bet the 4 things passed under Bush, along with SS and Medicare which already existed have driven the debt up more than anything Obama has done. But, yeah, I'm the one with the head in the sand.

I understand the Republican model now. Pass expensive legislation without paying for it. Everyone will forget that you drove up the debt.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Name the legislation. I named 4 from Bush that were completely unpaid for. At least Obamacare raised taxes, fees etc to help pay for it.

I bet the 4 things passed under Bush, along with SS and Medicare which already existed have driven the debt up more than anything Obama has done. But, yeah, I'm the one with the head in the sand.

I understand the Republican model now. Pass expensive legislation without paying for it. Everyone will forget that you drove up the debt.

Again, take off your partisan blinders. I'm blaming both parties. To me it goes all the way back to Tip O'Neill and Reagan, where both made a deal to get the spending they wanted, and it's gotten worse since then. You really are ridiculous. I'm not wasting my time listing all Obama's spending foibles (stimulus, cash for clunkers, and on and on). Even in your post you concede that Obamacare is only partially paid for (and even that was smoke and mirrors to some extent).

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Again, take off your partisan blinders. I'm blaming both parties. To me it goes all the way back to Tip O'Neill and Reagan, where both made a deal to get the spending they wanted, and it's gotten worse since then. You really are ridiculous. I'm not wasting my time listing all Obama's spending foibles (stimulus, cash for clunkers, and on and on). Even in your post you concede that Obamacare is only partially paid for (and even that was smoke and mirrors to some extent).

stimulus and cash for clunkers are all done. The Big 4 from Bush rage on.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Name the legislation. I named 4 from Bush that were completely unpaid for. At least Obamacare raised taxes, fees etc to help pay for it.

I bet the 4 things passed under Bush, along with SS and Medicare which already existed have driven the debt up more than anything Obama has done. But, yeah, I'm the one with the head in the sand.

I understand the Republican model now. Pass expensive legislation without paying for it. Everyone will forget that you drove up the debt.

Obamacare was priced out for 10 years from passing. Freebies for 5 of those years, increased taxes for 8 or 9 (I forget which) in order to get that "budget neutral" rating from the CBO. After that, how does Obamacare "pay for itself"? How will it impact the budget in terms of defecit or surplus?

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

stimulus and cash for clunkers are all done. The Big 4 from Bush rage on.

Do you know the concept of "big picture"?

 

[Rover]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Obamacare was priced out for 10 years from passing. Freebies for 5 of those years, increased taxes for 8 or 9 (I forget which) in order to get that "budget neutral" rating from the CBO. After that, how does Obamacare "pay for itself"? How will it impact the budget in terms of defecit or surplus?

Not sure what you're asking here. If its what happens beyond 10 years, that's all highly speculative at this point so I understand why the CBO prices most things over a 10 year horizon. I've worked for a couple of Fortune 500 companies in finance, and I've yet to see any division in either of them try to even hazard a guess beyond 5 years into the future.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

The country could easily cut the annual deficit in half with some painless changes to existing law.

Completely agree. SO WHY HASN'T THE PRESIDENT DONE IT? Follow up: why doesn't any lefty care or hold him accountable?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Obamacare was priced out for 10 years from passing. Freebies for 5 of those years, increased taxes for 8 or 9 (I forget which) in order to get that "budget neutral" rating from the CBO. After that, how does Obamacare "pay for itself"? How will it impact the budget in terms of defecit or surplus?

I didn't say it was perfect. They tried to pay for it though and the CBO has it budget neutral.

What was the rating for the big 4 from Bush? Where was my tax increase for those?

Completely agree. SO WHY HASN'T THE PRESIDENT DONE IT? Follow up: why doesn't any lefty care or hold him accountable?

No one held Bush accountable. They even gave him a second term so he could drive the entire economy of the greatest economic power in the world to dust.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Correct. Obama has passed no legislation that I am aware of that have the cost drivers that Medicare Part D, NCLB, and two wars do. It's not even close. The bills for those 4 things alone will be paying for the next 10 decades or more.

Yep. We managed to find the only thing that will even moderately reign in the spending of a Democratic administration - saddling the country with so much debt that the government's hands are tied. Yippee. Enjoy that orchestra music while Obama pretends to try to turn the Titanic - probably not the best large ship to use in that analogy!

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

I didn't say it was perfect. They tried to pay for it though and the CBO has it budget neutral.

What was the rating for the big 4 from Bush? Where was my tax increase for those?



No one held Bush accountable. They even gave him a second term so he could drive the entire economy of the greatest economic power in the world to dust.

So it's ok to not hold Obama accountable because Bush wasn't held accountable for fiscal irresponsibility either? Wow. You're in rich form today. I guess your mama never taught you that two wrongs don't make a right.