2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

[joecct]

No it isn't. That's like saying because I have a mortgage and student loans and a car payment, I'm bankrupt even though I could easily be making my payments because I chose not to pay them.

But when you can't - you can file for bankruptcy. In the back of the WaPo sports section is a list of foreclosures. It is rarely less than 4 pages long.

Every Monday it lists the business bankruptcies. There are always some.

 

[unofan]

But when you can't - you can file for bankruptcy. In the back of the WaPo sports section is a list of foreclosures. It is rarely less than 4 pages long.

Every Monday it lists the business bankruptcies. There are always some.

No one is denying that there is a thing called bankruptcy. it's your analogy that the US government is bankrupt because it's hit its self imposed debt ceiling where you're just flat out wrong.

 

[joecct]

No one is denying that there is a thing called bankruptcy. it's your analogy that the US government is bankrupt because it's hit its self imposed debt ceiling where you're just flat out wrong.

If you interpreted my posts as saying the US is bankrupt then I apologize for my lack of clarity. When liabilities exceed assets and current cash flow is negative you and I and the great majority of Americans and American business can declare bankruptcy to give us time to get our financial feet back under us.

It should not be an option for a nation state. They're too big to fail.

But on to other news -- auditors have found that the Social Security database thinks 6.5 million Americans who are 112 or older are still alive.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2015/03/10/thousands-of-u-s-workers-older-than-100-that-might-be-social-security-fraud/?tid=HP_federal?tid=HP_federal

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

Just eliminate the debt ceiling already. It's ridiculous to say "I ran up expenses and now I'm not paying." Even a marginally intelligent spending hawk should understand you have to attack spending at spending, not at invoicing. You have to cut up the credit card, not refuse to pay the balance.

Put a Virginian accent on that, and you'd sound EXACTLY like Pat Robertson.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

But when you can't - you can file for bankruptcy. In the back of the WaPo sports section is a list of foreclosures. It is rarely less than 4 pages long.

Every Monday it lists the business bankruptcies. There are always some.

Actually, student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy court.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

If you interpreted my posts as saying the US is bankrupt then I apologize for my lack of clarity. When liabilities exceed assets and current cash flow is negative you and I and the great majority of Americans and American business can declare bankruptcy to give us time to get our financial feet back under us.

It should not be an option for a nation state. They're too big to fail.

But on to other news -- auditors have found that the Social Security database thinks 6.5 million Americans who are 112 or older are still alive.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...security-fraud/?tid=HP_federal?tid=HP_federal

Yeah, but liabilities in the US do not exceed assets. Thus they're not "bankrupt".

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

Quite the interesting monologue by Michael Savage, discussing the seemingly endless vindication sought by people in this country. http://www.michaelsavage.wnd.com/fi...IVENESS-CAN-SAVE-AMERICA-OR-THE-WHITE-OWL.mp3

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

Just eliminate the debt ceiling already. It's ridiculous to say "I ran up expenses and now I'm not paying." Even a marginally intelligent spending hawk should understand you have to attack spending at spending, not at invoicing. You have to cut up the credit card, not refuse to pay the balance.

This kind of talk is what convinced me that this nation will never become fiscally responsible again. The day will come when we can't pay. It may be sooner. It may be later. But the trajectory is unmistakable to people who pay attention (which isn't very many Americans, thus how we can be going down the road we are and few people care). Later generations will look back and wonder what on earth we were thinking to behave so irresponsibly.

 

[GrinCDXX]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

This kind of talk is what convinced me that this nation will never become fiscally responsible again. The day will come when we can't pay. It may be sooner. It may be later. But the trajectory is unmistakable to people who pay attention (which isn't very many Americans, thus how we can be going down the road we are and few people care). Later generations will look back and wonder what on earth we were thinking to behave so irresponsibly.

Assuring our creditors that we can be counted on to pay up goes hand in hand with fiscal responsibility.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

This kind of talk is what convinced me that this nation will never become fiscally responsible again. The day will come when we can't pay. It may be sooner. It may be later. But the trajectory is unmistakable to people who pay attention (which isn't very many Americans, thus how we can be going down the road we are and few people care). Later generations will look back and wonder what on earth we were thinking to behave so irresponsibly.

You're missing my point. We can tighten our belts, but the place to do that is before you make the purchase. The GOP is advocating that we go to Sears, buy up half the store, take the stuff home, and when the bill comes just tear it up. That isn't fiscal responsibility.

Want to be truly fiscally responsible? Means test everything to convert entitlements to welfare, then raise the tax rate on higher earners to collect enough revenue to match expenditures plus a little surplus to pay down the debt over time. That is fiscal responsibility.

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

It's a good thing SCOTUS said racism is a thing of the past...
http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/politics/black-president-red-state-white-sheets-sing-blues-facebook/

I particularly like the "half breed" comment.

 

[BassAle]

This kind of talk is what convinced me that this nation will never become fiscally responsible again. The day will come when we can't pay. It may be sooner. It may be later. But the trajectory is unmistakable to people who pay attention (which isn't very many Americans, thus how we can be going down the road we are and few people care). Later generations will look back and wonder what on earth we were thinking to behave so irresponsibly.

This is why we are screwed. You completely missed the point.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

You're missing my point. We can tighten our belts, but the place to do that is before you make the purchase. The GOP is advocating that we go to Sears, buy up half the store, take the stuff home, and when the bill comes just tear it up. That isn't fiscal responsibility.

Want to be truly fiscally responsible? Means test everything to convert entitlements to welfare, then raise the tax rate on higher earners to collect enough revenue to match expenditures plus a little surplus to pay down the debt over time. That is fiscal responsibility.

You know what's funny? Two years ago we had the exact same conversation, only with the roles reversed.

You have to be careful about raising taxes because of the effects of the Laffer curve. Whine about voodoo and clutching to Bush all you want, but it does have a mathematical point that you will not maximize revenue if you push rates too high. Look more towards simplifying the tax code, which will remove loopholes used to dodge "income", and you'll save some money on the enforcement end. Either cut or "de-nationalize" spending if there's an obsession to kick the can (the amount spent on social security and federal pensions would cover the deficit according to usdebtclock.org, convert it to government bond 401(k)s instead of trust funds), and adapt policies that will generate tax revenue in this country, instead of offshore.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

You're missing my point. We can tighten our belts, but the place to do that is before you make the purchase. The GOP is advocating that we go to Sears, buy up half the store, take the stuff home, and when the bill comes just tear it up. That isn't fiscal responsibility.

Want to be truly fiscally responsible? Means test everything to convert entitlements to welfare, then raise the tax rate on higher earners to collect enough revenue to match expenditures plus a little surplus to pay down the debt over time. That is fiscal responsibility.

That ship has sailed. Nero plays, and Rome burns.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

You have to be careful about raising taxes because of the effects of the Laffer curve ... it does have a mathematical point that you will not maximize revenue if you push rates too high.

Obviously, but the argument has always been about whether we're to the left or the right of that point. Also, positing a single point is oversimplifying, since with a progressive tax code different earnings are taxed at different rates. There is nothing incorrect in principle with the Laffer Curve, but it's been abused (deliberately) by high earners and their puppets in government to evade taxation. We now have historically low taxes yet the economy is not spurred enough to offset the tremendous loss of revenue from the 34-year and counting tax holiday for the rich. Our debt is as much a revenue problem as a spending problem, and we have to attack both. The GOP showed its true colors when every candidate in 2012 rejected a 10:1 revenue to expenditure solution.

Our government is being held hostage by a transnational 1% who view taxes as theft and government as their salaried personal assistant. Fix that and we have a hope of attacking systemic problems like debt. Don't fix it and any piecemeal solution you try will fail since it doesn't attack the fundamental issue.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

Our government is being held hostage by a transnational 1% who view taxes as theft and government as their salaried personal assistant. Fix that and we have a hope of attacking systemic problems like debt. Don't fix it and any piecemeal solution you try will fail since it doesn't attack the fundamental issue.

Held hostage? I disagree. That 1% owns the government. The only hope is 1%ers who are altruistic and those are few and far between to overcome the complete narcissists.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

You know what's funny? Two years ago we had the exact same conversation, only with the roles reversed.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. I believe I've been very consistent in advocating a radically progressive tax code, with marginal rates climbing into the high 90s for earnings levels that are high enough. The big change I've made is that I used to believe we could fix everything with 2 numbers -- a flat tax of around 50% and an exemption of about $50k -- but people on the Forum convinced me that a having a large number of people, perhaps even the median earner, pay no income tax at all was misguided.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

Obviously, but the argument has always been about whether we're to the left or the right of that point. Also, positing a single point is oversimplifying, since with a progressive tax code different earnings are taxed at different rates. There is nothing incorrect in principle with the Laffer Curve, but it's been abused (deliberately) but high earners and their puppets in government to evade taxation. We now have historically low taxes yet the economy is not spurred enough to offset the tremendous loss of revenue that the 34-year and counting tax holiday for the rich. Our debt is as much a revenue problem as a spending problem, and we have to attack both. The GOP showed it's true colors when every candidate in 2012 rejected a 10:1 revenue to expenditure solution.

Our government is being held hostage by a transnational 1% who view taxes as theft and government as their salaried personal assistant. Fix that and we have a hope of attacking systemic problems like debt. Don't fix it and any piecemeal solution you try will fail since it doesn't attack the fundamental issue.

You're preaching to the choir here on most of this. You can position a single point on a Laffer curve, which is exactly what setting a tax rate is. Perhaps there are multiple Laffer curves, each adjusted based upon bands of wealth.

Here's another thing to consider: The Fed tries to force spending by targeting 2% inflation every year. If that's going to occur, why do we keep insisting on going after only income for taxes? This is another reason why some of the reformation proposals, such as FairTax or 9-9-9 make sense, because the taxes target all forms of spending, not just income. A true fair-tax style system would actually keep "income taxes", because labour is a viable product to sell (albeit not tangible).

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

I'm not sure what you're referring to. I believe I've been very consistent in advocating a radically progressive tax code, with marginal rates climbing into the high 90s for earnings levels that are high enough. The big change I've made is that I used to believe we could fix everything with 2 numbers -- a flat tax of around 50% and an exemption of about $50k -- but people on the Forum convinced me that a having a large number of people, perhaps even the median earner, pay no income tax at all was misguided.

I was more referring to your GOP advocation comments, because the last few times the debt ceiling issue occurred, it seemed to be the Dems wanting to go on a spending spree and the GOP tightening the purse strings.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

I was more referring to your GOP advocation comments, because the last few times the debt ceiling issue occurred, it seemed to be the Dems wanting to go on a spending spree and the GOP tightening the purse strings.

When that was occurring the economy that the GOP destroyed was still in shambles.