2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

That's just for the EZ Pass. I think the bank subsidized the cost.

That's still a sponsorship that could be sold. I know there are some dumb federal laws about sponsorships along public highways, especially at rest areas.

 

[joecct]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

That's still a sponsorship that could be sold. I know there are some dumb federal laws about sponsorships along public highways, especially at rest areas.

Yea. The Birch John Society is responsible for those.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

States are starting to "sell" highways to private corporations. The corporations keep the tolls, maintain the roads, etc. usually for a fixed (very long) term.

This shouldn't be a big surprise. Pretty much every company outsources some aspect of their business to a more specialized firm. And likewise, most companies outsource part of their business to the government.

Its not that everyone is incompetent...its called specialization.

 

[Proud2baLaker]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

You just had to google. Here is one example....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/16/toll-road-privatization_n_878169.html

I was going to bring this up. I am from Indiana and lived there when the toll road was leased. It created an incredible amount of controversy. A LOT of people did not like the idea of leasing the road to foreign investors. I would not say it is a good example of a private company taking over a road. There is a lot of complaining going on there about the rates going up again this year and many say there have not been significant improvements in maintenance. I was just reading an article where several commentors were stating that when driving across the state now they choose to avoid the toll road all-together and use state routes. Having an I-Pass is a bit cheaper as rates are frozen until 2016 but as the article you posted states, those rates will match the cash rates starting then, which will only continue to rise. And as I stated earlier, this rise in rates does not appear to be coupled with improvements to the road.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I was going to bring this up. I am from Indiana and lived there when the toll road was leased. It created an incredible amount of controversy. A LOT of people did not like the idea of leasing the road to foreign investors. I would not say it is a good example of a private company taking over a road. There is a lot of complaining going on there about the rates going up again this year and many say there have not been significant improvements in maintenance. I was just reading an article where several commentors were stating that when driving across the state now they choose to avoid the toll road all-together and use state routes. Having an I-Pass is a bit cheaper as rates are frozen until 2016 but as the article you posted states, those rates will match the cash rates starting then, which will only continue to rise. And as I stated earlier, this rise in rates does not appear to be coupled with improvements to the road.

I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't very many trucks on there either, especially considering the speed limit difference is 10 MPH instead of 15 MPH (truck speed limit is 65 while cars is 70), not to mention, commercial vehicles are starting to be regulated at 55 MPH. I don't remember seeing all that many when I last took the Indiana East-West (between Christmas and New Years). It's nice to see the huff-and-puffers haven't gone on their "greedy corporation" schtick, but if anything, it's a realisation of how much maintaining a road actually costs.

 

[Proud2baLaker]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't very many trucks on there either, especially considering the speed limit difference is 10 MPH instead of 15 MPH (truck speed limit is 65 while cars is 70), not to mention, commercial vehicles are starting to be regulated at 55 MPH. I don't remember seeing all that many when I last took the Indiana East-West (between Christmas and New Years). It's nice to see the huff-and-puffers haven't gone on their "greedy corporation" schtick, but if anything, it's a realisation of how much maintaining a road actually costs.

While the investors are tasked with maintenance of the roads, again something many people feel they are failing at, and said maintenance costs are likely high and increasing, they also have to be concerned with profit. I'm sure there would be at least a little less groaning if the regular users of the toal road saw some kind of return on those increasing rates. Theoretically at least, if it were run by the state, the only concern should be maintenance and not profit.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

While the investors are tasked with maintenance of the roads, again something many people feel they are failing at, and said maintenance costs are likely high and increasing, they also have to be concerned with profit. I'm sure there would be at least a little less groaning if the regular users of the toal road saw some kind of return on those increasing rates. Theoretically at least, if it were run by the state, the only concern should be maintenance and not profit.

Profit or no, there's still the concern of inflationary policy that makes these sorts of things more expensive. Look at how much the NYS Thruway tolls have increased, or even worse, the PA Pike. Why the Mass Pike tolls haven't gone up I have no idea unless they're just about bankrupt. Perhaps another reason is the number of alternate routes that are available. With Indiana, all you have to do is go up to the Great Lakes state from back in Toledo or I-69 and I-94 isn't all that far off. This is one of the reasons why NY 5S, a highway at interstate standards, is 55 MPH with heavy and strict enforcement instead of 65 MPH, just to get people to use the Thruway. Obviously you're going to have people that won't pay for use of a road, but it goes back to your quantity of supply/demand.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Stories like this amuse me to no end.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...-republican-party-remakes-north-carolina.html

I'm all for peaceful protests, but surely you have to realize that the time for action was at the voting booth last November. So, North Carolina elected Republicans to control the state govt....and now they're governing like hard core conservatives! OMG!!! Never could have seen that coming.

If NC voted narrowly for Obama in 2008, and he narrowly lost in 2012, that would say to me its a roughly 50/50 state. With that in mind, how did the GOP achieve super-majorities in the State House, long before they would have been able to re-draw the lines? Either 1) Obama voters didn't vote in legislative election, or 2) they split their vote in the hopes that the people they chose would govern more moderately. Either way, there's no reason to complain now. You get the people you vote for (or don't bother to vote for, as may be the case here).

 

[joecct]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Rover

"All politics is local." One tends to get more concerned the closer the event is to one's home.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Stories like this amuse me to no end.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...-republican-party-remakes-north-carolina.html

I'm all for peaceful protests, but surely you have to realize that the time for action was at the voting booth last November. So, North Carolina elected Republicans to control the state govt....and now they're governing like hard core conservatives! OMG!!! Never could have seen that coming.

If NC voted narrowly for Obama in 2008, and he narrowly lost in 2012, that would say to me its a roughly 50/50 state. With that in mind, how did the GOP achieve super-majorities in the State House, long before they would have been able to re-draw the lines? Either 1) Obama voters didn't vote in legislative election, or 2) they split their vote in the hopes that the people they chose would govern more moderately. Either way, there's no reason to complain now. You get the people you vote for (or don't bother to vote for, as may be the case here).

Well they got elected, too darn bad, you huff-and-puffers should learn to live with it.

You know what, this sounds REALLY familiar to your gloating on the Presidential side.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

The Bone Man fails again.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

The Bone Man fails again.

Given the huff-and-puffers' beliefs when it comes to knucks and greedy corporations, I'm shocked you're calling this a fail.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Given the huff-and-puffers' beliefs when it comes to knucks and greedy corporations, I'm shocked you're calling this a fail.

Big Banks are given an interest rate of almost nothing from the Federal Government. The prime rate is 3.25%. Yet, we're going to charge the "hopefully" future middle class 6.8% to go to school??

That's an epic failure by our Federal Government of epic proportions. Most other nations around the globe are investing in higher education knowing that their population needs it to compete.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tavis-smiley/sen-elizabeth-warren-on-s_b_3418669.html

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Big Banks are given an interest rate of almost nothing from the Federal Government. The prime rate is 3.25%. Yet, we're going to charge the "hopefully" future middle class 6.8% to go to school??

That's an epic failure by our Federal Government of epic proportions. Most other nations around the globe are investing in higher education knowing that their population needs it to compete.

At this point, given it's difficult to find an 18-year-old that DOESN'T want to go to college, raising the rates is a pretty good idea to push out some of the demand, especially for the worthless majors like English and history. Of course, I don't know how many college students are smart enough to know that they can't afford college. Not to mention, student loans still cannot be dissolved in bankruptcy court. That'd be an interesting way to draft people for federal tasks: If you owe student loans to the government, you work it off. Granted, I'm not sure how it'd work with the 13th and 8th amendments.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Scoobs is 100% correct. Its amazing that the same people who cry at the top of their lungs that Obama is leading the nation to ruin in the next breath think its okay to make it harder for working class people to afford college, an attitude that will in fact ruin the country. Few of us can go the "Mitt Romney Route" where he famously declared that kids should just ask their parents for the money.


Worse yet is the condescending attitude out of righties that taking out loans is a sign that you don't belong in college. Even the most responsible of students may have to rely on some level of loans to get them through school. 6.8% is an absurd borrowing rate in this day and age, especially since students will have to pay the money back eventually as those loans can't be disposed of.

But hey, go on telling students this is all their fault. Nothing will consign conservatism to the dustbin of history quite like screwing over a whole generation of people in their formative years! Remember, we ain't creating any new crabby old white guy voters.

 

[pirate]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Big Banks are given an interest rate of almost nothing from the Federal Government. The prime rate is 3.25%. Yet, we're going to charge the "hopefully" future middle class 6.8% to go to school??

That's an epic failure by our Federal Government of epic proportions. Most other nations around the globe are investing in higher education knowing that their population needs it to compete.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tavis-smiley/sen-elizabeth-warren-on-s_b_3418669.html

Simple math.

Those loans get statements, make phone calls, make payments and don't pay their bills a healthy % of the time. 6.8% asks the student benefitting from the loan to pay back with interest and hopefully provides some incentive to borrow with some forethought. Charging them less means everybody else pays more for it. At 6.8% they don't even cover the losses now. The govt has lent $900billion with no underwriting at all, some say losses are 20%. They could do something like this to win votes from young people and either raise the deficit, cut back on other services to non-students or raise taxes.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Simple math.

Those loans get statements, make phone calls, make payments and don't pay their bills a healthy % of the time. 6.8% asks the student benefitting from the loan to pay back with interest and hopefully provides some incentive to borrow with some forethought. Charging them less means everybody else pays more for it. At 6.8% they don't even cover the losses now. The govt has lent $900billion with no underwriting at all, some say losses are 20%. They could do something like this to win votes from young people and either raise the deficit, cut back on other services to non-students or raise taxes.

And yet the folks who are getting practically zero percent can almost cause the collapse of the entire financial system and their rates stay the same?

What ****ing planet are you people living on?

 

[pirate]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

And yet the folks who are getting practically zero percent can almost cause the collapse of the entire financial system and their rates stay the same?

What ****ing planet are you people living on?

What the heck are you talking about? You asked a question. Not my fault you and Rover don't understand it costs money to run the program. Oh right, I forgot, somebody else pays for it all so you don't care. Rationalizing government decisions to the point that they all need to be bad decisions for the purpose of consistency has gotten us to this point. Like I said, just cut social security (or any other goverment expense) or raise taxes. Problem solved.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

What the heck are you talking about? You asked a question. Not my fault you and Rover don't understand it costs money to run the program. Oh right, I forgot, somebody else pays for it all so you don't care. Rationalizing government decisions to the point that they all need to be bad decisions for the purpose of consistency has gotten us to this point. Like I said, just cut social security (or any other goverment expense) or raise taxes. Problem solved.

General Electric pays zero in taxes. That's what I'm talking about. The Bone Man has just passed legislation to raise interest rates on the middle class by 3.4% to go to college and we still haven't fixed the loophole for GE and we still don't charge Big Banks even the prime rate to borrow money.

It's wrong.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Big Banks are given an interest rate of almost nothing from the Federal Government. The prime rate is 3.25%. Yet, we're going to charge the "hopefully" future middle class 6.8% to go to school??

That's an epic failure by our Federal Government of epic proportions. Most other nations around the globe are investing in higher education knowing that their population needs it to compete.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tavis-smiley/sen-elizabeth-warren-on-s_b_3418669.html

As someone who has spent the last 7 years putting 2 through college, and working on the 3rd, right now, some might say I have a vested interest in this issue.

I'm a big supporter of education, as I think a lot of our welfare issues can be solved if we get people the education needed to make a go of it themselves.

Unfortunately, our system of funding higher education has turned into something a little bit like our failed medical insurance/reimbursement industry.

Having the government throw a bunch of free or extraordinarily cheap money at students in the form of grants and minimum interest loans means that there is a big supply of dollars out there available for universities to tap, just like hospitals did.

As a result, we just see this exponential increase in tuition costs that bear literally no relation to inflation at all.

I'd be much more in favor of a "single" payer system for college, basically like we do for K-12.