2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

[FreshFish]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

According to the Treasury Dept Inspector General,

Russell George, the Treasury inspector general whose original audit broke open the scandal,...In a letter released Thursday, Mr. George couldn't have been clearer: The evidence showed conservative groups were singled out for abuse by the IRS, not liberal groups. While some liberal groups might have wound up on a BOLO list, the IRS did not target them. "We did not find evidence that the criteria you identified, labeled 'Progressives,' were used by the IRS to select potential political cases during the 2010 to 2012 timeframe we audited." One hundred percent of the groups with "Tea Party," "Patriot" or "9/12" in their names were given extra scrutiny. "While we have multiple sources of information corroborating the use of Tea Party and other related criteria . . . including employee interviews, e-mails, and other documents, we found no indication in any of these other materials that 'progressives' was a term used to refer cases for scrutiny for political campaign intervention." [emphasis added]

Further corroboration from the House Ways and Means Committee:

only seven of the 298 cases flagged by the IRS for extra scrutiny appeared to represent progressive causes. Not one of the seven was subject to harassment or abuse. Of the seven, only two were even sent follow-up questionnaires after their applications for tax exempt status were received. Neither of those two was asked inappropriate or invasive questions. And all seven saw their applications approved.

Conservative groups were treated differently, sent to a secondary review group after being flagged for scrutiny. They were subject to undue burdens and harassment—lengthy and invasive questions about donors and even prayer habits. There, in the secondary offices, some of them languished for years. "Some of them are still languishing," said the source

Furthermore, whomever on the left thinks that they should be crowing about the IRS investigating progressives isn't thinking very clearly: so the IRS is abusing more people than just conservatives and we are supposed to be reassured by that?? are you nuts? The IRS already has too much power and too much discretion, and now we want to turn over the administration of the nation's entire healthcare system to them as well, starting next year?

No thank you!


And for reliability and sources, I'll take the word of the Treasury Dept inspector general over any other source you care to cite on this particular issue. Career bureaucrats knowingly and deliberately tried to stifle groups critical of too much government power. This shouldn't even be a political issue but one of individual liberty and good governance. If they can get away with doing this to conservatives today, who's to say who might be next?

 

[Rover]

According to the Treasury Dept Inspector General,




Further corroboration from the House Ways and Means Committee:




Furthermore, whomever on the left thinks that they should be crowing about the IRS investigating progressives isn't thinking very clearly: so the IRS is abusing more people than just conservatives and we are supposed to be reassured by that?? are you nuts? The IRS already has too much power and too much discretion, and now we want to turn over the administration of the nation's entire healthcare system to them as well, starting next year?

No thank you!


And for reliability and sources, I'll take the word of the Treasury Dept inspector general over any other source you care to cite on this particular issue. Career bureaucrats knowingly and deliberately tried to stifle groups critical of too much government power. This shouldn't even be a political issue but one of individual liberty and good governance. If they can get away with doing this to conservatives today, who's to say who might be next?

Fishy, give it a rest. You already lost this one. As usual its been shown to be a fishing expedition as the guy in the Cincy office who oversaw all this already explained why these groups were being targeted, and it had nothing to do with politics. Now if you have the hots for Congressman Issa, by all means I don't want to get in the middle of that. However, in your free time kindly read the full transcipts of the testimony before the House committee, you know, the ones that the Chairman didn't want to release.

 

[Rover]

Yeah great, another bill where they have to pass it before they can read/understand it?

This one's pretty straight forward for anyone that understands big words walrus!

I do like the bind the House nutjobs are in now though. Either The Boner and team 1) pass immigration reform thus splitting their caucus and most likely leading to the Speaker losing his job, or 2) they stonewall reform despite a bipartisan effort in the Senate, which not only dooms them with all minority voters for generations (if you think its bad now, wait until Hispanics and Asians start voting 9-1 Dem like black voters do) but also PO's the corporate community which is the backbone of GOP campaign cash.

Really guys, either one works for me.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

This one's pretty straight forward for anyone that understands big words walrus!

I do like the bind the House nutjobs are in now though. Either The Boner and team 1) pass immigration reform thus splitting their caucus and most likely leading to the Speaker losing his job, or 2) they stonewall reform despite a bipartisan effort in the Senate, which not only dooms them with all minority voters for generations (if you think its bad now, wait until Hispanics and Asians start voting 9-1 Dem like black voters do) but also PO's the corporate community which is the backbone of GOP campaign cash.

Really guys, either one works for me.

I'm still waiting for Bone Man's JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS legislation. Where the **** is that at??????

 

[FreshFish]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

You already lost this one.

This is just a game to you? You are perverse. "I don't care how many people's civil liberties get trampled as long as 'my side' wins."

Dolt. It isn't about "sides". We have government vs citizens and you actively are cheering for the government to win. Yet if anyone calls you a totalitarian you give us the boo hoo hoo you hurt my feelings act.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

This is just a game to you? You are perverse. "I don't care how many people's civil liberties get trampled as long as 'my side' wins."

Dolt. It isn't about "sides". We have government vs citizens and you actively are cheering for the government to win. Yet if anyone calls you a totalitarian you give us the boo hoo hoo you hurt my feelings act.

What a ridiculous premise. We are the government. You roll your eyes?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I'm still waiting for Bone Man's JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS legislation. Where the **** is that at??????

Government does not directly create jobs. In order for private growth to be induced (because public jobs are government expenses at a discount due to taxes), government needs to get out of the way. Do you think any of those 536 voting pundits have any intentions of getting out of the way? Absolutely not. It's a paradox where they're expected to do something, yet doing something gets in the way.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Government does not directly create jobs. In order for private growth to be induced (because public jobs are government expenses at a discount due to taxes), government needs to get out of the way. Do you think any of those 536 voting pundits have any intentions of getting out of the way? Absolutely not. It's a paradox where they're expected to do something, yet doing something gets in the way.

Wrong again. I guess you enjoy being wrong. You should read up on the Hoover Dam or the Interstate Highway System sometime and get a clue.

And I'm still waiting for Boner to DO ANYTHING he's promised. Except wasting our time on abortion and Obamacare WHICH IS ALL HIS House ever does.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Wrong again. I guess you enjoy being wrong. You should read up on the Hoover Dam or the Interstate Highway System sometime and get a clue.

And I'm still waiting for Boner to DO ANYTHING he's promised. Except wasting our time on abortion and Obamacare WHICH IS ALL HIS House ever does.

You asked about the creation of jobs themselves. The Hoover Dam, from a standpoint of jobs, is no different from the "Bridge to Nowhere". Now, if you want to talk about creating ROI, I'm all ears. Don't confuse them, though.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

You asked about the creation of jobs themselves. The Hoover Dam, from a standpoint of jobs, is no different from the "Bridge to Nowhere". Now, if you want to talk about creating ROI, I'm all ears. Don't confuse them, though.

Dear Flaggy,

I'm NOT the one who was talking about Jobs. The Bone Man was the one talking about jobs. I was only asking WHERE IN THE **** the Bone Man's job legislation was at. I'm still waiting. You should get your reading comprehension meter checked.

 

[Rover]

This is just a game to you? You are perverse. "I don't care how many people's civil liberties get trampled as long as 'my side' wins."

Dolt. It isn't about "sides". We have government vs citizens and you actively are cheering for the government to win. Yet if anyone calls you a totalitarian you give us the boo hoo hoo you hurt my feelings act.

Have you been drinking in the morning again? Lets take a quiz! All knuckledraggers are welcome to participate. If someone calls Rover a "totalitarian" Rover will A) give a boo hoo hoo you hurt my feeling act, or B) respond in kind with a put down of his own. I'm gonna choose B on this one.

Moving on, you've already been called on thinking we live in some sorta X-files "Us vs Da Gubmint" world, but at the end of the day we voters choose who represents us so spare us the persecution complex. I know it fits into #1 of The 3 Fears of Conservatism (WE'RE LOSING OUR FEEDOMS!!!!) but save it for one of those CPAC dinosaur conventions.

The IRS controversy is simply a manufactured scandal by proponents of a dying ideology to make it look like they're doing something. Given the rock bottom ratings of the GOP, I think its fair to say it ain't helpin'....

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Dear Flaggy,

I'm NOT the one who was talking about Jobs. The Bone Man was the one talking about jobs. I was only asking WHERE IN THE **** the Bone Man's job legislation was at. I'm still waiting. You should get your reading comprehension meter checked.

Dear Scooby,

I'm telling you that he caught himself between a rock and a hard place. I was only telling you why he can't create jobs. You should get your depth perception meter checked.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Dear Scooby,

I'm telling you that he caught himself between a rock and a hard place. I was only telling you why he can't create jobs. You should get your depth perception meter checked.

I don't see any Bone Man government investment with potential for great ROI legislation either. So, I guess he's an EPIC FAIL either way.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Have you been drinking in the morning again? Lets take a quiz! All knuckledraggers are welcome to participate. If someone calls Rover a "totalitarian" Rover will A) give a boo hoo hoo you hurt my feeling act, or B) respond in kind with a put down of his own. I'm gonna choose B on this one.

Moving on, you've already been called on thinking we live in some sorta X-files "Us vs Da Gubmint" world, but at the end of the day we voters choose who represents us so spare us the persecution complex. I know it fits into #1 of The 3 Fears of Conservatism (WE'RE LOSING OUR FEEDOMS!!!!) but save it for one of those CPAC dinosaur conventions.

The IRS controversy is simply a manufactured scandal by proponents of a dying ideology to make it look like they're doing something. Given the rock bottom ratings of the GOP, I think its fair to say it ain't helpin'....

Not directly, at least. Ever hear of the electoral college? Remember, that thing that made you lose one of the elections you constantly boast about "winning"? How about the national conventions for the political parties? All of the process that leads to what essentially is a run-off election on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November. To say that the voters choose is quite naïve.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I don't see any Bone Man government investment with potential for great ROI legislation either. So, I guess he's an EPIC FAIL either way.

Did you ever think that perhaps the peons put so much pressure on these guys to do things, when in all reality they should be getting out of the way?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Have you been drinking in the morning again? Lets take a quiz! All knuckledraggers are welcome to participate. If someone calls Rover a "totalitarian" Rover will A) give a boo hoo hoo you hurt my feeling act, or B) respond in kind with a put down of his own. I'm gonna choose B on this one.

Moving on, you've already been called on thinking we live in some sorta X-files "Us vs Da Gubmint" world, but at the end of the day we voters choose who represents us so spare us the persecution complex. I know it fits into #1 of The 3 Fears of Conservatism (WE'RE LOSING OUR FEEDOMS!!!!) but save it for one of those CPAC dinosaur conventions.

The IRS controversy is simply a manufactured scandal by proponents of a dying ideology to make it look like they're doing something. Given the rock bottom ratings of the GOP, I think its fair to say it ain't helpin'....

The IRS Scandal that does exist has to do with Greg Roseman and Braulio Castillo. They both should burn in hell.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...een-as-influencing-500-million-in-awards.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/26/tammy-duckworth-strong-castle_n_3504531.html

May God bless Tammy Duckworth.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Did you ever think that perhaps the peons put so much pressure on these guys to do things, when in all reality they should be getting out of the way?

No. People that get out the way create other issues like the one I just posted below that cause even bigger problems.

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

You asked about the creation of jobs themselves. The Hoover Dam, from a standpoint of jobs, is no different from the "Bridge to Nowhere". Now, if you want to talk about creating ROI, I'm all ears. Don't confuse them, though.

How many people would have benefited from a "Bridge to Nowhere"? How many millions are served by the Hoover Dam? How many tens of millions are served by the highway system? Rural electricity? The Tennessee Valley Authority? The trick is to build things we actually need, not crap we will never use. That's why the theory that's become so popular among the right of using stimulus money to endlessly fill in potholes is so wrong. See, we use the highways and bridges. They get worn down. We have to fix them. If we don't, stuff like this happens:

Fortunately the roads, bridges and rails that make this country function are all superbly maintained so that will never happen...

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

How many people would have benefited from a "Bridge to Nowhere"? How many millions are served by the Hoover Dam? How many tens of millions are served by the highway system? Rural electricity? The Tennessee Valley Authority? The trick is to build things we actually need, not crap we will never use. That's why the theory that's become so popular among the right of using stimulus money to endlessly fill in potholes is so wrong. See, we use the highways and bridges. They get worn down. We have to fix them. If we don't, stuff like this happens:

Fortunately the roads, bridges and rails that make this country function are all superbly maintained so that will never happen...

You are still missing the point. No matter what is done with the job, it is still a government expense. Are you going to be ready to discuss Return on Investment, or be continuously dismissive about this sort of thing?

Please tell me you actually play Sim City...

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

You are still missing the point. No matter what is done with the job, it is still a government expense. Are you going to be ready to discuss Return on Investment, or be continuously dismissive about this sort of thing?

Please tell me you actually play Sim City...

No, I don't play SimCity.

Does your RoI just take into account the expense of building something like the Hoover Dam, or all the economic activity created for the past 80 years by the dam project? All the electricity generated and used by the states of Nevada, California and Arizona? The tourism dollars? Etc...