2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

[unofan]

So if you openly admit that you don't preach family values, who are you to call me or anyone else on the right a hypocrite for voting for the person who best represents me, which obviously not the liberal, despite most anyone's shortcomings? Politicians are all slimy, if they weren't they wouldn't be politicians. I wish more practiced what they preach but that's the world we live in. Adultery is might be a sin but it isn't against the law and republicans aren't the only ones that give in to that temptation when offered the opportunity.

Really? You don't see any difference between someone who preaches family values having an affair and trying to cover it up, and some one else just having an affair without preaching about their morals? Or the party of family values electing a known adulterer?

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

[unofan]

because you agree with those in charge politically, what would you be saying about the Bush administration if Benghazi happen on their watch? Priceless where is the chart on deaths of US Ambassadors? Despite attacks, none of them have been killed since I believe 1979. That is a pretty big deal and despite what all of you might think, that would have sunk Condoleeza Rice.

I don't blame Bush for 9/11, which is a much bigger deal than benghazi could ever hope to be. And anyone who does is a crackpot. So your martyrdom is misplaced.

 

[pirate]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

And no one gives a fark about benghazi except for Fox News and those who watch it. .

Exactly his point. You don't care at all because it was your party in power at the time. When the two parties get to the point that nothing that happens on their watch is ever A) Bad or B) It is Bad but it isn't something we even care about or C) It is Bad, we care about it but it was THEIR fault. Then we have a country run by idiots, and idiots supporting them.

Your reaction is no different than the parent that defends their kid no matter what mayhem they produce. Nobody is asking the parent to disown their kid, just admit when mistakes are made and correct them.

Clearly it wasn't our plan to have people killed, clearly we could have done things better, clearly there should be admissions of such. But NO, it is all nothing. Nobody cares.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Exactly his point. You don't care at all because it was your party in power at the time. When the two parties get to the point that nothing that happens on their watch is ever A) Bad or B) It is Bad but it isn't something we even care about or C) It is Bad, we care about it but it was THEIR fault. Then we have a country run by idiots, and idiots supporting them.

Your reaction is no different than the parent that defends their kid no matter what mayhem they produce. Nobody is asking the parent to disown their kid, just admit when mistakes are made and correct them.

Clearly it wasn't our plan to have people killed, clearly we could have done things better, clearly there should be admissions of such. But NO, it is all nothing. Nobody cares.

To be fair, both parties do it. You see a lot of GOPers crowing about the Patriot Act, TSA, and the like, but it was OK when they were in power. Even I've been guilty of this at times. Sometimes, you just have to take a step back and look from a neutral eye.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

To be fair, both parties do it. You see a lot of GOPers crowing about the Patriot Act, TSA, and the like, but it was OK when they were in power. Even I've been guilty of this at times. Sometimes, you just have to take a step back and look from a neutral eye.

Agreed, it probably is the biggest problem with the current state of politics, but its very hard for either side to back off this stance because the losing side is always pushing so hard against the winner to find any little thing to complain about. Its extremely likely the winning side will get defensive regardless of the merits to protect their candidate and attempt to prevent the other side from winning next time.

 

[unofan]

Exactly his point. You don't care at all because it was your party in power at the time. When the two parties get to the point that nothing that happens on their watch is ever A) Bad or B) It is Bad but it isn't something we even care about or C) It is Bad, we care about it but it was THEIR fault. Then we have a country run by idiots, and idiots supporting them.

Your reaction is no different than the parent that defends their kid no matter what mayhem they produce. Nobody is asking the parent to disown their kid, just admit when mistakes are made and correct them.

Clearly it wasn't our plan to have people killed, clearly we could have done things better, clearly there should be admissions of such. But NO, it is all nothing. Nobody cares.

If all that was going on was what you said in the last paragraph, you'd be right. But fox news, Lindsay Graham, and McCain have staked out their position that this is Obama's Watergate and won't let it go. It was worthwhile talking about it 5 months ago. These days it reeks of desperation with a touch of mccarthyism. Attacking Chuck Hagel because of it was absurd. Throwing in with Ted Cruz is asking to be mocked.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

If all that was going on was what you said in the last paragraph, you'd be right. But fox news, Lindsay Graham, and McCain have staked out their position that this is Obama's Watergate and won't let it go. It was worthwhile talking about it 5 months ago. These days it reeks of desperation with a touch of mccarthyism. Attacking Chuck Hagel because of it was absurd. Throwing in with Ted Cruz is asking to be mocked.

The whole Chuck Hagel situation is disgraceful. The senate had no business filibustering his appointment.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Agreed, it probably is the biggest problem with the current state of politics, but its very hard for either side to back off this stance because the losing side is always pushing so hard against the winner to find any little thing to complain about. Its extremely likely the winning side will get defensive regardless of the merits to protect their candidate and attempt to prevent the other side from winning next time.

This is the flaw in the two-party system that Washington foretold. I recall hearing a few times (not here, but elsewhere) that my vote for Johnson was a vote for Obama. This is because when there are effectively two sides involved, the focus is not on one side winning, but on one side losing. As hockey fans, we see it all the time through referring to the opposing goalie as "Sieve", heckles at the other team, and so on and so forth. The law of disjunctive inference peers its ugly head once again.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Exactly his point. You don't care at all because it was your party in power at the time. When the two parties get to the point that nothing that happens on their watch is ever A) Bad or B) It is Bad but it isn't something we even care about or C) It is Bad, we care about it but it was THEIR fault. Then we have a country run by idiots, and idiots supporting them.

Your reaction is no different than the parent that defends their kid no matter what mayhem they produce. Nobody is asking the parent to disown their kid, just admit when mistakes are made and correct them.

Clearly it wasn't our plan to have people killed, clearly we could have done things better, clearly there should be admissions of such. But NO, it is all nothing. Nobody cares.

This is true for isolated detail issues...Benghazi (which is critcal or irrelevant depending on your affiliation) or Katrina (which is critical or irrelevant depending on your affiliation).

The difference is the sustained damage this country takes. I consider putting the country into two foriegn wars, and sheparding in a financial crisis worse than anything since the great depression and the destruction of net worth increases of the last generation noteworthy. I also consider getting us out of two wars (without getting us into any others), and improving the economy and company profits to the point where the markets double as noteworthy also.

I won't get hung up on crises lasting months, but I will get hung up on crises lasting decades.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

It doesn't matter who the voters picked, special interests will have the winner bought off within weeks.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

This is true for isolated detail issues...Benghazi (which is critcal or irrelevant depending on your affiliation) or Katrina (which is critical or irrelevant depending on your affiliation).

The difference is the sustained damage this country takes. I consider putting the country into two foriegn wars and into a crisis worse than anything since the great depression and destroy the net worth increases of the last generation noteworthy. I also consider getting us out of two wars (without getting us into any others), and improving the economy and company profits to the point where the markets double as noteworthy also.

I won't get hung up on this crises lasting months but I will get hung up on crises lasting decades.

Last I checked, we were still in Afghanistan, and maybe getting involved with Syria. Also, real profits haven't changed; the money supply has just been inflated. You can use commodity prices as a check on that. Also, it's not like Dubya made the 2008 crash; Clinton's the who dumped Glass-Steagall, dumped the uptick rule, started the whole sub-prime thing, but it just so happens that the timing occurred where the end result fell into the lap of the GOP. Hit and hide, as it were.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

No, Mookie cuts and pastes garbage like that.

You realize that wasn't written by Jeff Foxworthy, right? It was written by Fritz Edwards and was originally titled "Channeling Jeff Foxworthy" but whatever.

Glad you don't refute the substance of it.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

To be fair, both parties do it. You see a lot of GOPers crowing about the Patriot Act, TSA, and the like, but it was OK when they were in power. Even I've been guilty of this at times. Sometimes, you just have to take a step back and look from a neutral eye.

Most people seem to be unable to do this.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Most people seem to be unable to do this.

They're able to do it, it's just a question of if they're always able to do it.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Last I checked, we were still in Afghanistan, and maybe getting involved with Syria. Also, real profits haven't changed; the money supply has just been inflated. You can use commodity prices as a check on that. Also, it's not like Dubya made the 2008 crash; Clinton's the who dumped Glass-Steagall, dumped the uptick rule, started the whole sub-prime thing, but it just so happens that the timing occurred where the end result fell into the lap of the GOP. Hit and hide, as it were.

You can't be the pro business, economic-expert party and blow it to the magnitude the GOP did. That decade will put a serious headwind in any attempt to get a government majority for a generation.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

You can't be the pro business, economic-expert party and blow it to the magnitude the GOP did. That decade will put a serious headwind in any attempt to get a government majority for a generation.

If you really want to get into a party line argument, I believe the donkeys had control of the house AND the senate when the excrement hit the fan.

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Glad you don't refute the substance of it.

I said it was garbage. If you like garbage, that's fine; it's not my place to judge. I just think garbage is usually smelly and dirty so I try to avoid it whenever possible. But you feel free to wallow in it if that's what makes you feel good.

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

They're able to do it, it's just a question of if they're always able to do it.

Or willing to. Easier to have cognitive dissonance than admit you were wr...wro....wr... not exactly right.

 

[Rover]

because you agree with those in charge politically, what would you be saying about the Bush administration if Benghazi happen on their watch? Priceless where is the chart on deaths of US Ambassadors? Despite attacks, none of them have been killed since I believe 1979. That is a pretty big deal and despite what all of you might think, that would have sunk Condoleeza Rice.

I don't recall anybody calling for Reagan's impeachment when terrorists blew up the Embassy and Marine barracks in Beirut. I don't believe Shultz or Weinberger resigned either.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Or willing to. Easier to have cognitive dissonance than admit you were wr...wro....wr... not exactly right.

This is true. It's reminding me of this one scene from Home Improvement when, after Jill said that Tim was right, Tim was trying to get Jill to say she was wrong. I can't remember which episode it was, or else I'd present a clip. It was one of the earlier seasons.