2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

The parents are wrong, however. I mentioned before, look into blue-collar stuff. Forget the stigma...there's money to be made, and it usually only takes 2 years at a trade school.

While trades are a great option to look at, I feel like blue collar traditionalist types will often grunt that "anyone can do it" if they just apply themselves. I don't know about you, but I don't think it's automatically a good idea for someone whose primary aptitude is writing or art or history, to try and learn how to properly wire a house.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

I agree with you completely, but here we're just talking about the animal training role of colleges -- how the drones use them to prepare to earn a living.

Sure, there are other (arguably or, as I would say, inarguably) more important reasons for college. Those, at least as long as we're burdened with our current economic system, imply a leisure class. Poets and philosophers, without whom humanity is a glorified ant hill, either luxuriate in old money or starve in a Bohemian garret. Both are proven methods to drown in chicks, which is after all The Whole Point.

I'm not talking about that stuff as much as the various elective courses that give you some type of science background so you can see past some of the various BS right wing arguments about climate change and other anti-science nonsense, some of the courses that teach you about how our culture affects how we view things as a society and how it changes over time, for me the nutrition/wellness courses actually helped me form healthier habits and I still use that info today, even basic literature courses teach you to think critically about what you're reading which is a lot more than we can say about 35% of the population (and realistically that number is a lot higher).

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Quick way to become rich - push electrons on Wall Street.

It's not your money.

Definitely not a quick or easy way - one of my former bosses' brothers did that. It's very long hours for most of your 20s and 30s, not to mention avoiding the burnout of drugs and alcohol that constantly happens in that scene. However, if you do it right, the payoff of a Wall Street resume is a very early retirement. His goal was to be out by 40, and he and his wife were going to move back to Chicago, where he would shop around for a comparatively easy CFO/VP of Finance type job to keep himself occupied.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

I'm not talking about that stuff as much as the various elective courses that give you some type of science background so you can see past some of the various BS right wing arguments about climate change and other anti-science nonsense, some of the courses that teach you about how our culture affects how we view things as a society and how it changes over time, for me the nutrition/wellness courses actually helped me form healthier habits and I still use that info today, even basic literature courses teach you to think critically about what you're reading which is a lot more than we can say about 35% of the population (and realistically that number is a lot higher).

My intuition is that kind of an open mind does not actually come from college -- you've either got it or you don't. To be fair, Dr. Mrs. totally disagrees with me and agrees with you that this is the greatest gift of a liberal arts education: the ability to think for yourself. My experience is that bit is frozen at birth at 0 for most and 1 for we few, we happy few.

Either you are curious or you aren't. 90% are the sheep fixated on the grass. 9% are the shepherds fixated on controlling the sheep. And 1% of us leave the meadow and head out into the world.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

My intuition is that kind of an open mind does not actually come from college -- you've either got it or you don't. To be fair, Dr. Mrs. totally disagrees with me and agrees with you that this is the greatest gift of a liberal arts education: the ability to think for yourself. My experience is that bit is frozen at birth at 0 for most and 1 for we few, we happy few.

Well it's not entirely due to college and I know people who went to college and didn't open their minds. While I don't think it's going to work every time I do think on average it'll provide a net benefit.

The other thing IRT your post about poetry/music and the other studies that don't necessarily prepare you for the workforce, I'd argue someone like Mozart provided far more to society than someone with a STEM degree who uses it to work for some consulting firm that actively destroys the planet.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

There are employers that want someone with a college degree even though it shouldn't be necessary for the position.

This, right here, is the biggest problem of all.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

This, right here, is the biggest problem of all.

Part of the issue is that's hard to define objectively. Like someone could probably do my job without a college degree but I tend to have a bit more faith in someone that's taken a few calculus/statistics/detail oriented courses doing my job well than someone who doesn't have that background or at least some college level coursework. It's certainly not 1 to 1 because people can be lazy or have other issues but it's probably true on average.

The other issue is IDK how you would even legislate around that problem.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Well it's not entirely due to college and I know people who went to college and didn't open their minds. While I don't think it's going to work every time I do think on average it'll provide a net benefit.

The other thing IRT your post about poetry/music and the other studies that don't necessarily prepare you for the workforce, I'd argue someone like Mozart provided far more to society than someone with a STEM degree who uses it to work for some consulting firm that actively destroys the planet.

Agree with the college experience argument. For me growing up in a working class lilly white town, going to a university with a strong international student body was a huge eye opener. Its a big world out there with a lot of different perspectives. Oh, the money/chicks/parties were nice too...

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

The other thing IRT your post about poetry/music and the other studies that don't necessarily prepare you for the workforce, I'd argue someone like Mozart provided far more to society than someone with a STEM degree who uses it to work for some consulting firm that actively destroys the planet.

"STEM" is a conflation of two different things. Engineering and technology are plumbing. Very, very important (as anyone with a backed up toilet at 2 a.m. can tell you). The money goes there for the same reason that sanitation workers get paid a lot: immediate social utility.

Mathematics and science are of the same kind with art, music, and philosophy. Imagination, curiosity, strangers in an all too relentlessly, boring, plodding, LCD land.

We need both. A world of techs without artists is a Nazi work camp. A world of artists without techs is a 19th Century Utopian commune.

But, and here's a secret, "STEM" really shouldn't be combined. The outer terms look outwards while the inner terms look inwards.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Agree with the college experience argument. For me growing up in a working class lilly white town, going to a university with a strong international student body was a huge eye opener. Its a big world out there with a lot of different perspectives. Oh, the money/chicks/parties were nice too...

That's not college, though. That's the Country Mouse goes to the big city. You can get that same cosmopolitan experience cruising The Bowery, which is... well, it's not college, though it is an education.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Part of the issue is that's hard to define objectively. Like someone could probably do my job without a college degree but I tend to have a bit more faith in someone that's taken a few calculus/statistics/detail oriented courses doing my job well than someone who doesn't have that background or at least some college level coursework. It's certainly not 1 to 1 because people can be lazy or have other issues but it's probably true on average.

The other issue is IDK how you would even legislate around that problem.

Its true with getting a grad degree as well. An MBA for example. Did getting an MBA make me a better employee? Sure, you learn a lot more than in undergrad. But to employers, it signifies a person willing to go the extra mile.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

That's not college, though. That's the Country Mouse goes to the big city. You can get that same cosmopolitan experience cruising The Bowery, which is... well, it's not college, though it is an education.

There's something to be said about being in a community where (mostly) everybody is striving to better themselves via education.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Its true with getting a grad degree as well. An MBA for example. Did getting an MBA make me a better employee? Sure, you learn a lot more than in undergrad. But to employers, it signifies a person willing to go the extra mile.

Does it? Honest question. In my field an MBA is a credential for being a PM for a program of a certain threshold dollar figure. Mother Corporate sells itself by saying its management has x qualifications, and the workforce adjusts accordingly. The idea of actually learning anything from the experience is regarded as ludicrous. It's a hoop to jump through and is quite resented.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

There's something to be said about being in a community where (mostly) everybody is striving to better themselves via education.

You're preaching to the choir. The private sector cannot compare with academia for density of interesting, curious, sincere people. Academia, even with all its flaws and bullsh-t, is the only real oasis in our commercial kindergarten other than the arts.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Does it? Honest question. In my field an MBA is a credential for being a PM for a program of a certain threshold dollar figure. Mother Corporate sells itself by saying its management has x qualifications, and the workforce adjusts accordingly. The idea of actually learning anything from the experience is regarded as ludicrous. It's a hoop to jump through and is quite resented.

Most people I know enjoyed their MBA experience. From my personal perspective, the work was more relevant having actually been in the real world for a few years before going back, and the professors were much better (side note, my worst grad school professor at BU is always on CNBC because he's riding the coattails of a guy he co-wrote a book with who later won a Nobel Prize ). And yes, we've all gone through the wars and got that 2nd piece of paper. Instead of being the limousine liberal that you know and love, I'd be a Dodge K-Car liberal were it not for that degree.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

I'm not going to read back, but how did the Democratic Challengers thread become a dik measuring contest for posters? That seems really far off tangent, even for us.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

I'm not going to read back, but how did the Democratic Challengers thread become a dik measuring contest for posters? That seems really far off tangent, even for us.

Are you new here? EVERY thread pretty much turns into a dik measuring contest, sometimes even before mookie gets involved!

 

[duper]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

It really does help understand how the dik-measurer-in-chief got into office, don't it?

 

[St. Clown]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

I'm not going to read back, but how did the Democratic Challengers thread become a dik measuring contest for posters? That seems really far off tangent, even for us.

Rover and Kepler started posting.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

I'll get us back on topic. Joe Biden - about to announce soon. While the guy isn't my first choice (Warren is) I think pundidiotry and many a Dem is way underestimating his chances. To me, the path to the nomination isn't winning over well educated urban liberals, because there's a plethora of candidates appealing to that bloc. It runs through the non-white Dems who dominate the primaries in delegate rich states from Virginia to Texas. If anybody consolidates their vote, as the last two Dem nominees did, they win.

So, who has a chance to do that? Harris of course being a non-white person herself. O'Rourke who's white as a ghost but has already won in a heavily Hispanic district and is the only candidate from the South. And then there's Biden. He has the chance to parlay his time as Obama's VP into a strong 1st place finish in these states and a 2nd place to a Sanders lets say in the rust belt. Remember, Dem contests aren't winner take all. They're allocated by Congressional districts. That matters especially for the people who are already well known and who don't have to set up shop in every single precinct to earn precious delegates. Were I advising Bernie Sanders, I'd have him spend the bulk of his time in the Carolinas, Florida, etc. For all of the goodwill he has with liberals, he can't afford to get creamed down South like he did last time. That's where the contest gets decided.