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2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?
- Thread starter MissThundercat
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trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?
IRT Rover's last post I get that pretty much everything that's being proposed needs to get through congress (the top marginal tax rate increase) but realistically nothing is getting through the senate anyhow no matter how moderate the proposal is. The Dems could make a bill where they get rid of ACA and mandate that every living person burn 1 ton of coal and it probably still wouldn't pass. That's why we mostly need to get someone in who has ambitious ideas who can set the rhetoric and propose ambitious legislation, even if it won't pass immediately, and get rid of anyone on either side who opposes progress.
IRT Rover's last post I get that pretty much everything that's being proposed needs to get through congress (the top marginal tax rate increase) but realistically nothing is getting through the senate anyhow no matter how moderate the proposal is. The Dems could make a bill where they get rid of ACA and mandate that every living person burn 1 ton of coal and it probably still wouldn't pass. That's why we mostly need to get someone in who has ambitious ideas who can set the rhetoric and propose ambitious legislation, even if it won't pass immediately, and get rid of anyone on either side who opposes progress.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?
I don't agree here. You can probably get something pretty liberal passed from the get go even with a bare majority. Not Kep's 97% tax rate but higher top income rates are a lay up. Whether that's 45% or 55% or there's a new top tier will be up to negotiation but lets be realistic. I don't want to blow off a chance to raise taxes on the rich in exchange for purity of rhetoric and an internal civil war.
I also think there's a chance to get Warren's wealth tax enacted maybe on an initial small scale. A transaction tax on high speed trading is also an easy win as is killing carried interest and other special interest tax breaks.
I don't agree here. You can probably get something pretty liberal passed from the get go even with a bare majority. Not Kep's 97% tax rate but higher top income rates are a lay up. Whether that's 45% or 55% or there's a new top tier will be up to negotiation but lets be realistic. I don't want to blow off a chance to raise taxes on the rich in exchange for purity of rhetoric and an internal civil war.
I also think there's a chance to get Warren's wealth tax enacted maybe on an initial small scale. A transaction tax on high speed trading is also an easy win as is killing carried interest and other special interest tax breaks.trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?
It should be but if Republicans have a majority of the senate it won't be.
It should be but if Republicans have a majority of the senate it won't be.
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?
I agree. I'm more thinking of what can be done with a narrow majority in the Senate after 2020 provided we pick off the low hanging fruit (CO, ME, AZ) plus one more.
I agree. I'm more thinking of what can be done with a narrow majority in the Senate after 2020 provided we pick off the low hanging fruit (CO, ME, AZ) plus one more.
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?
The enemies on the right and left have levelled more criticisms on Beto than all other candidates to date combined. To me much of these criticisms sound like 'TH EMAILZ!'. And if you notice, we don't receive any criticisms about candidates that are nobody's...we only get them about candidates that can actually make it happen. Recently other than Kerry, Obama and Hillary Clinton (all candidates at the doorstep), no candidate has gotten more of a broadside than Beto. Having said that, its too early to make a call on Beto. But surprisingly the Post just did. They'll either help highlight some major flaws...or have some serious regrets on this:
Beto ORourke is a Loser
Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...7d7b44-4a60-11e9-93d0-64dbcf38ba41_story.html
The enemies on the right and left have levelled more criticisms on Beto than all other candidates to date combined. To me much of these criticisms sound like 'TH EMAILZ!'. And if you notice, we don't receive any criticisms about candidates that are nobody's...we only get them about candidates that can actually make it happen. Recently other than Kerry, Obama and Hillary Clinton (all candidates at the doorstep), no candidate has gotten more of a broadside than Beto. Having said that, its too early to make a call on Beto. But surprisingly the Post just did. They'll either help highlight some major flaws...or have some serious regrets on this:
Beto ORourke is a Loser
Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...7d7b44-4a60-11e9-93d0-64dbcf38ba41_story.html
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?
I don't know what to think about ME. They seem to be rocketing towards Frozen WV.
I don't know what to think about ME. They seem to be rocketing towards Frozen WV.
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?
I don't know Kep. Again Dems completely swept state government last year as well as both Congressional seats. Collins is the last woman standing. I too was extremely disappointed in insane fat slob LePage serving 8 years but he benefited from a 3 way race.
While this obviously isn't the only factor Dems have pretty much taken over everything that's not gerrymandered in ME, PA, MI, and WI and partial control in state govt races in AZ, IA, and NC. That's where I think the message might resonate next year.
I don't know Kep. Again Dems completely swept state government last year as well as both Congressional seats. Collins is the last woman standing. I too was extremely disappointed in insane fat slob LePage serving 8 years but he benefited from a 3 way race.
While this obviously isn't the only factor Dems have pretty much taken over everything that's not gerrymandered in ME, PA, MI, and WI and partial control in state govt races in AZ, IA, and NC. That's where I think the message might resonate next year.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?
Oddly we're not really in disagreement. I agree with your incrementalist approach while the GOP still has significant power. My radical reform is for if and when the GOP completely collapses in a cataclysm, if for example the white Poors finally catch on that the 1% are laughing at them.
I don't agree here. You can probably get something pretty liberal passed from the get go even with a bare majority. Not Kep's 97% tax rate but higher top income rates are a lay up. Whether that's 45% or 55% or there's a new top tier will be up to negotiation but lets be realistic. I don't want to blow off a chance to raise taxes on the rich in exchange for purity of rhetoric and an internal civil war.
Oddly we're not really in disagreement. I agree with your incrementalist approach while the GOP still has significant power. My radical reform is for if and when the GOP completely collapses in a cataclysm, if for example the white Poors finally catch on that the 1% are laughing at them.
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?
The dead guy whose office was down the street from the family manse says this:
@dick_nixon: I'm conservative. I am not a conservative. I wouldn't call myself a conservative in a campaign now for all the tea in China. That's a political decision. https://twitter.com/proust1974/status/1108401326487191552
The dead guy whose office was down the street from the family manse says this:
@dick_nixon: I'm conservative. I am not a conservative. I wouldn't call myself a conservative in a campaign now for all the tea in China. That's a political decision. https://twitter.com/proust1974/status/1108401326487191552
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?
You really think they have a chance at understanding this? They have already basically shunned education as an evil. That’s a death spiral. Unrecoverable.
You really think they have a chance at understanding this? They have already basically shunned education as an evil. That’s a death spiral. Unrecoverable.
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?
Tax policy is doable here both in the short and long term. My initial plan is the "get it by Manchin and Tester since we'll need their votes" roadmap to achieving something the next Congress if WH and Senate go our way.
BUT, to the extent you put these higher rates in place and the only effect is the rich having to pay more taxes it lays the groundwork for increases down the road. I'm thinking Warren's wealth tax can start off low but go a few % points higher as the political climate on tax hikes for the rich keeps getting more favorable. If Joe Sixpack still thinks that tax cuts for the rich benefits his minimum wage existence he's probably not voting Dem anyway and there's very few Dems left in solid Red states anymore (the aforementioned Manchin and Tester along with Doug Jones).
Tax policy is doable here both in the short and long term. My initial plan is the "get it by Manchin and Tester since we'll need their votes" roadmap to achieving something the next Congress if WH and Senate go our way.
BUT, to the extent you put these higher rates in place and the only effect is the rich having to pay more taxes it lays the groundwork for increases down the road. I'm thinking Warren's wealth tax can start off low but go a few % points higher as the political climate on tax hikes for the rich keeps getting more favorable. If Joe Sixpack still thinks that tax cuts for the rich benefits his minimum wage existence he's probably not voting Dem anyway and there's very few Dems left in solid Red states anymore (the aforementioned Manchin and Tester along with Doug Jones).
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?
They aren't going to listen to anybody else tell them, obviously. But they have been prepped with a hatred of elites and with a victimization streak that's 20 states wide. InfoWars already tells them to hate certain Republicans: McCain is practically a black feminist Jew now.
At some point that could metastasize beyond the GOP's ability to control it, and really who is more obviously a Reptilian Shapeshifter than Lindsey Graham?
Someday the monster is going to go for Frankenstein's throat.
They aren't going to listen to anybody else tell them, obviously. But they have been prepped with a hatred of elites and with a victimization streak that's 20 states wide. InfoWars already tells them to hate certain Republicans: McCain is practically a black feminist Jew now.
At some point that could metastasize beyond the GOP's ability to control it, and really who is more obviously a Reptilian Shapeshifter than Lindsey Graham?
Someday the monster is going to go for Frankenstein's throat.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?
The thing is, the Murdoch propaganda machine does such a great job at convincing people that “socialism” (Btw, this isn’t socialism) is a bad thing. But every time the public gets a new welfare state perk, they don’t just like it, they love it. Obamacare was Satan incarnate until they started to use it.
A wealth tax would have to be very carefully rolled out because of the complexity of state and local taxes and all other things that are impossibly intertwined with federal taxes. I know it seems like “just tax everything above $20 million at 0.5%” is a simple fix that will only impact the 1%, but I don’t think it’s that easy.
The propaganda machine has demonized the estate tax because it impacts 40 farms a year. But the people think it impacts EVERY small farm. If even a near-zero number of people who are perceived to not be 1%ers are impacted, this will be a bloodbath. It has to be so carefully explained and rolled out. We can’t be cavalier about it. We might only have this one chance this generation.
The thing is, the Murdoch propaganda machine does such a great job at convincing people that “socialism” (Btw, this isn’t socialism) is a bad thing. But every time the public gets a new welfare state perk, they don’t just like it, they love it. Obamacare was Satan incarnate until they started to use it.
A wealth tax would have to be very carefully rolled out because of the complexity of state and local taxes and all other things that are impossibly intertwined with federal taxes. I know it seems like “just tax everything above $20 million at 0.5%” is a simple fix that will only impact the 1%, but I don’t think it’s that easy.
The propaganda machine has demonized the estate tax because it impacts 40 farms a year. But the people think it impacts EVERY small farm. If even a near-zero number of people who are perceived to not be 1%ers are impacted, this will be a bloodbath. It has to be so carefully explained and rolled out. We can’t be cavalier about it. We might only have this one chance this generation.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?
It's tricky, even Tucker will blame the elites constantly though he tries to play it off like it's Hollywood actors and jews primarily (SOROS!) that control everything. To me this is why you need someone who actually delivers something that promises to improve peoples' basic needs (healthcare, education, housing, income) and also delivers on it. Even Dumpy ran a faux populist campaign. And that isn't to say it'll be easy to do.
WeAreNDHockey
\../ \../
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?
Just a friendly reminder: This time around every single democrat running will be better than every single republican. All the democrats won't be good. Some of them will suck. But we can't afford a purity test at any level for the time being. When the republicans have been punished with enough defeats they will begin to change their tactics and may actually put forth a candidate or two who isn't a minion of either trump or a handful of billionaires. Until then, no purity tests, vote for the dude or gal with the "d" next to the name.
Now back to your regularly scheduled speculation.
Just a friendly reminder: This time around every single democrat running will be better than every single republican. All the democrats won't be good. Some of them will suck. But we can't afford a purity test at any level for the time being. When the republicans have been punished with enough defeats they will begin to change their tactics and may actually put forth a candidate or two who isn't a minion of either trump or a handful of billionaires. Until then, no purity tests, vote for the dude or gal with the "d" next to the name.
Now back to your regularly scheduled speculation.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?
Of course. I'll vote for Tulsi before I vote for another Republican.
Of course. I'll vote for Tulsi before I vote for another Republican.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?
To be fair, he did give a pretty awful answer to why he wants to be POTUS. Even a simple, "Because I believe my policies would be better than Donald Trump's, and here's why..." would've played just fine for now. Somehow he managed to spit out a bland Clinton/Kennedy-type, "Because it's my turn and I'm handsome!" type of answer.
To be fair, he did give a pretty awful answer to why he wants to be POTUS. Even a simple, "Because I believe my policies would be better than Donald Trump's, and here's why..." would've played just fine for now. Somehow he managed to spit out a bland Clinton/Kennedy-type, "Because it's my turn and I'm handsome!" type of answer.
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