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2020 Democratic Challengers V: Bye Felicia

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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers V: Bye Felicia

Kepler said:
That's not an indicator. Obama is the de facto head of the party and probably will be for life. He's an institution now. I predict he won't endorse until the nomination is secured.
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Maybe, but if the rumors are true pretty much everyone including him told Biden not to run for president.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers V: Bye Felicia

rufus said:
Seriously, what are people seeing in Biden to make him the frontrunner? Just that they know his name?

I don't think he's made a rational or coherent policy proposal yet.
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It's all about that handful of voters in a handful of states who may either come back to D or vote rather than stay home this time around. Mostly the latter, I'd suspect. How solid Dems see him doesn't really matter, does it? Serious question--I don't know.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers V: Bye Felicia

I think the last thing the dems need is somebody who generates zero enthusiasm and goes on cruise control for the entire election cycle like abuela did.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers V: Bye Felicia

Handyman said:
It depends...I think he will wait but will endorse someone when it still matters. I dont think it will be Joe though.
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We'll see. I think the Obama brand is something between "objective umpire" and "disembodied voice of the higher self descended for a brief time from the heavens."
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers V: Bye Felicia

trixR4kids said:
I think the last thing the dems need is somebody who generates zero enthusiasm and goes on cruise control for the entire election cycle like abuela did.
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Even if that is who the majority of Dems vote for? If he wins the nomination that speaks louder than whether he generates enthusiasm or not. The problem is we have no idea who is doing what because the Dems still let everyone with 12 voters supporting them stand on stage to waste time. The longer this slogs on the easier it is for him to slip through the cracks and hold on to his numbers.

The Dems need to start culling the herd and the Progressives need to start supporting candidates with a real shot at winning before we have any idea who is actually winning this. The vote is still too fractured right now.

(remember I have zero interest in President Biden)
 
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Handyman said:
Even if that is who the majority of Dems vote for? If he wins the nomination that speaks louder than whether he generates enthusiasm or not.
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Not really, it’d speak to the electorate clearly not paying attention until it’s far too late. Fortunately I don’t think that will last forever, the trends seem to indicate that thus far.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers V: Bye Felicia

trixR4kids said:
Not really, it’d speak to the electorate clearly not paying attention until it’s far too late. Fortunately I don’t think that will last forever, the trends seem to indicate that thus far.
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So you know more than the actual voters who are casting the votes to decide the nomination?

And I thought I had a big ego...:D
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers V: Bye Felicia

Handyman said:
Even if that is who the majority of Dems vote for? If he wins the nomination that speaks louder than whether he generates enthusiasm or not. The problem is we have no idea who is doing what because the Dems still let everyone with 12 voters supporting them stand on stage to waste time. The longer this slogs on the easier it is for him to slip through the cracks and hold on to his numbers.

The Dems need to start culling the herd and the Progressives need to start supporting candidates with a real shot at winning before we have any idea who is actually winning this. The vote is still too fractured right now.

(remember I have zero interest in President Biden)
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There is no reason to do that culling yet. That's what the primaries are for. Right now the only basis for culling is name recognition and that is self-fulfilling prophesy. We have to let the voters speak.
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers V: Bye Felicia

trixR4kids said:
Not really, it’d speak to the electorate clearly not paying attention until it’s far too late. Fortunately I don’t think that will last forever, the trends seem to indicate that thus far.
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Yeah that is what I mean. I wasnt saying it would legitimize him I am saying that proves enthusiasm isnt the problem it is the voters in general that are the problem.
 
Handyman said:
Yeah that is what I mean. I wasnt saying it would legitimize him I am saying that proves enthusiasm isnt the problem it is the voters in general that are the problem.
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The demographics are entirely different but either way the candidate in the general needs to ramp up excitement and be a good campaigner. At this point I’m pretty confident that Donny is a better campaigner than Joe 30330 and will do a better job of activating his base while the other will probably have a negative effect. Joe could maybe still win narrowly given the trends of 2018 and more recent election results (the NC one) but that’s not exactly comforting either.
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers V: Bye Felicia

Kepler said:
There is no reason to do that culling yet. That's what the primaries are for. Right now the only basis for culling is name recognition and that is self-fulfilling prophesy. We have to let the voters speak.
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Sorry but I disagree. It was cute for a while but the Dems are spending way too much time making sure everyone has a chance to play. I am not saying get it down to 5 or anything but they need to up the minimums and fast or people are gonna tune out completely. There is no point to these debates because no one can actually speak. We arent learning anything and the agenda is not going to change because Julian Castro gets in a zinger then isnt heard from again.

As of yesterday 20 people were still in the race. That is lunacy. I bet if we tried (without help) we couldnt name half of them and 3/4 of them we couldnt tell you their big agenda piece. It is all white noise which is why Biden is able to maintain his lead.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers V: Bye Felicia

Handyman said:
Sorry but I disagree. It was cute for a while but the Dems are spending way too much time making sure everyone has a chance to play. I am not saying get it down to 5 or anything but they need to up the minimums and fast or people are gonna tune out completely. There is no point to these debates because no one can actually speak. We arent learning anything and the agenda is not going to change because Julian Castro gets in a zinger then isnt heard from again.

As of yesterday 20 people were still in the race. That is lunacy. I bet if we tried (without help) we couldnt name half of them and 3/4 of them we couldnt tell you their big agenda piece. It is all white noise which is why Biden is able to maintain his lead.
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90% of the Democratic electorate have not even started paying attention yet. We have an extremely warped view because we never stop breathing in political fumes but the people who will decide this -- The Great Lo Fo Mr. and Ms. Average -- have not thought about 2020 yet.

This hasn't "gone on too long." It literally has not even started. You are advocating replacing the pre-1970s smoke filled room with a post-2010 internet chat room. No. The cure for the ills of democracy is more democracy*. That means the pre-season is going to have pitchers in camp with uniform numbers in the 70s and 80s.

* It's strange that the most extreme intellectual snob on the Cafe should have to be the one to remind people of this.
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers V: Bye Felicia

Also the problem isn’t so much the number of people, it’s ABC’s incompetency and thinking that people actually care what Cory Booker and Kampala think.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers V: Bye Felicia

trixR4kids said:
The demographics are entirely different but either way the candidate in the general needs to ramp up excitement and be a good campaigner. At this point I’m pretty confident that Donny is a better campaigner than Joe 30330 and will do a better job of activating his base while the other will probably have a negative effect. Joe could maybe still win narrowly given the trends of 2018 and more recent election results (the NC one) but that’s not exactly comforting either.
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Anyone is...but his Old Man shtick is working and is nullifying the age gap.

Right now the disappointing thing to me is that the "youth" is vastly underperforming. I am not being ageist but the leaders are very old and the fact that none of the younger candidates is generating any real excitement right now is kind of sad to see. if Beto had brain one on any issue he could be killing it right now cause he has the Q factor. No one else seems to get anything going. That may be partly because of the large field but I also think they all are just too...blah. None of them seem ready to take a hard stance (outside Beto with guns) and even when they do, as soon as there is any blowback they backpeddle faster than a French Tank in the Rhineland. Bernie and Warren...we know where they stand on all issues. The rest...we kind of know but we dont know which is why bloggers and clickbaiters are cleaning up right now.

Honestly...if I was on Beto's staff right now I take the AR-15 comment (and the reaction to it) and go for broke. He has shown you can withstand the blowback and it makes you look better. Stop trying to make him into something he isnt (smart) and just have him go out there and say what the Left wants to hear. He doesnt have to believe it, he doesnt have to actually support it, HE DOESNT EVEN NEED TO KNOW WHAT IT IS, just have him say it and get his numbers up. Get sounbytes of him talking about every red meat issue and going extreme on it. He could be in the Top 5 with that right now. We know voters dont actually care about policy (hence...Joe Biden) so take a page from his playbook with a younger version. (note: I dont want Beto either...but if I was on his staff this is his path to higher office)
 
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