2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Lmao
They were substantially different, the 20% included things like the Iraq war and doesn’t even get into their backgrounds or differences in healthcare, paying a living wage, or willingness to actually fight against billionaires.

I see you still plan on doing the bidding of Chump and his Russian allies!

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

And thus illustrates the growing divide in the Democratic party... is the term "DINO" a thing yet?

No it doesnt, because you arent a Democrat. Every Democrat in here is saying the same thing. The only one who isnt is you. That is why the three posts arent arguing with each other, they are mocking the opinion YOU have.

You arent a Dino...you are missing the D. You are a Gary Johnson loving interloper and as such no one is taking your opinion seriously.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

No I’m just not a moron who can’t recognize the vast difference between Delaney/Biden and Bernie. And lol at thinking that wanting progressive policies or everything you don’t like is the work of the Russians. Pretty sure Vlad doesn’t want Bernie to win... the way certain libs talk about the Russians is basically just red scare nonsense and is clearly used to deflect from how badly they failed in 2016.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

No I’m just not a moron who can’t recognize the vast difference between Delaney/Biden and Bernie. And lol at thinking that wanting progressive policies or everything you don’t like is the work of the Russians. Pretty sure Vlad doesn’t want Bernie to win...

Delaney is not a serious candidate, and Bernie will not get Medicare for all passed in his first term given even the most optimistic forecast of Dem Senate #'s and expected GOP obstruction. That will take a decade's worth of sustained electoral victories. I'm not sure what part of that you're struggling with.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

And thus illustrates the growing divide in the Democratic party... is the term "DINO" a thing yet?

Perhaps we are too mean...

Nah!

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

One of the candidates is actually willing to fight for it while the others aren’t or don’t even pretend to support it. This isn’t hard...

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

BTW so glad I didnt even know there was a debate last night. Call me when they get to the "Elite Eight"

(glad 3 of my faves did well from all Left accounts)

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

BTW so glad I didnt even know there was a debate last night. Call me when they get to the "Elite Eight"

(glad 3 of my faves did well from all Left accounts)

I almost forgot about it.

IIRC, after these debates the qualifications get substantially harder. That should slice off about half the field for September (which is when I'm guessing the next debate is).

 

[ericredaxe]

Why is socialized medical care so terrible of an idea? We already have socialized defense, which works really well, and it totally state of the art. We have socialized schooling, which would be better off if R's would just let people learn without cutting funding, and we have socialized justice and punishment. All of them work quite effectively.

And the health care system we have right now IS SOCIALISM! When people pool their resources for the greater good, that's socialism. The difference between the "radical progressive pie in the sky" vs. what we have now is that people make a lot of money telling me how I get to use my healthcare dollars vs letting the system to work a lot better.

Just black box what's happening right now- for very many of us, our employer sends money to entity X, and that entity tells me who and what I can do if I get sick. Their ultimate responsibility, by law, is their shareholders. Change entity X to government, who will do exactly the same thing, but with the ultimate responsibility to satisfy the patient. Even with increased taxes, I'll not even notice a change in my take home pay.

How is it that the government is so evil, but for profit companies that make money laundering my money is ok? Dilbert cartoons are not funny just because, they were funny because they resonate a lot of truth. They have mis-management and corruption, too. And for non-consumer items like healthcare, they really provide no benefit.

Not saying it’s a terrible idea so much as it will never happen.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

I almost forgot about it.

IIRC, after these debates the qualifications get substantially harder. That should slice off about half the field for September (which is when I'm guessing the next debate is).

So what they need to be polling in the positive numbers?

 

[ericredaxe]

No it doesnt, because you arent a Democrat. Every Democrat in here is saying the same thing. The only one who isnt is you. That is why the three posts arent arguing with each other, they are mocking the opinion YOU have.

You arent a Dino...you are missing the D. You are a Gary Johnson loving interloper and as such no one is taking your opinion seriously.

Don’t act like an *******. If we lose the center/left we get 4 more years of trump. The electoral college isn’t going away and 3,000,000 more votes from California and New York don’t help at all.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

This thing that every other country has is impossible to achieve here you see...

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

This thing that every other country has is impossible to achieve here you see...

Hey, maybe they don't have Nazis as one of the two major political parties! Having said that, could you kindly explain to me what Senate #'s are you expecting for the Dems when Congress reconvenes in January 2021 after Bernie is elected President? Because if you're not getting to 60 Dem Senators how does Medicare for All happen? Do we get to 60 in 2022?

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Why is socialized medical care so terrible of an idea? We already have socialized defense, which works really well, and it totally state of the art. We have socialized schooling, which would be better off if R's would just let people learn without cutting funding, and we have socialized justice and punishment. All of them work quite effectively.

And the health care system we have right now IS SOCIALISM! When people pool their resources for the greater good, that's socialism. The difference between the "radical progressive pie in the sky" vs. what we have now is that people make a lot of money telling me how I get to use my healthcare dollars vs letting the system to work a lot better.

Just black box what's happening right now- for very many of us, our employer sends money to entity X, and that entity tells me who and what I can do if I get sick. Their ultimate responsibility, by law, is their shareholders. Change entity X to government, who will do exactly the same thing, but with the ultimate responsibility to satisfy the patient. Even with increased taxes, I'll not even notice a change in my take home pay.

How is it that the government is so evil, but for profit companies that make money laundering my money is ok? Dilbert cartoons are not funny just because, they were funny because they resonate a lot of truth. They have mis-management and corruption, too. And for non-consumer items like healthcare, they really provide no benefit.

I literally JUST experienced a perfect personal anecdote which demonstrates eric's type of misunderstanding of 'TEH SOCIALISM," which has been deliberately sewn throughout the working class by the Kochs and others so they keep on cutting their own throats:

I was having a friendly, utterly non-political conversation with an older, very far right coworker (we're talking Dumpy Ground Zero). We are about to move to a new program vehicle and when we do our parent company is changing our charge codes to freeze our pensions to make us cheaper (naturally their profit wrap rate margin will remain the same). It will also negate some very good legacy medical annuity benefits from a company we ate a long time ago. Because of this, many of our older, legacy employees are going to retire before we make the change so they won't be rooked out of their benefits. I asked my coworker, who is himself quite old, whether he was going to stay on in the new contract vehicle or retire and cash in his annuity.

He told me, "well I already lost my benefits during a former transition" (because he came from yet another company we ate). I mumbled something generic and he followed up with, "yeah, Raytheon did some socialist thing where they told us 'it's not fair that only a few people have this benefit' so the canceled it."

That's what we're up against. A smartish guy with 30 years of work experience doing technical work (he's an engineer) and yet so completely brainwashed by Rush, Hannity, and Fox on politics and economics that he truly believes it's the capitalist who is protecting his benefits and the socialist who wants to take them away.

Until we figure out how to break that cultural programming, which the Plutes spend billions reinforcing through their media, then the very innovations which saved labor in this country and created our middle class (limited working hours, bans on chold labor, OSHA regulations, overtime, retirement, social security, short and long term medical leave, maternity leave) will be resisted by workers when introduced and then, laughably, credited to the very capitalists who fought to deny them.

That's the power of the wealthy to to brainwash people.

 

[alfablue]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Not saying it’s a terrible idea so much as it will never happen.

That's the point of changing perspective and the narrative- it's so close to what we do now, that it's not nearly that impossible.

 

[alfablue]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

I literally JUST experienced a perfect personal anecdote which demonstrates eric's type of misunderstanding of 'TEH SOCIALISM," which has been deliberately sewn throughout the working class by the Kochs and others so they keep on cutting their own throats:

I was having a friendly, utterly non-political conversation with an older, very far right coworker (we're talking Dumpy Ground Zero). We are about to move to a new program vehicle and when we do our parent company is changing our charge codes to freeze our pensions to make us cheaper (naturally their profit wrap rate margin will remain the same). It will also negate some very good legacy medical annuity benefits from a company we ate a long time ago. Because of this, many of our older, legacy employees are going to retire before we make the change so they won't be rooked out of their benefits. I asked my coworker, who is himself quite old, whether he was going to stay on in the new contract vehicle or retire and cash in his annuity.

He told me, "well I already lost my benefits during a former transition" (because he came from yet another company we ate). I mumbled something generic and he followed up with, "yeah, Raytheon did some socialist thing where they told us 'it's not fair that only a few people have this benefit' so the canceled it."

That's what we're up against. A smartish guy with 30 years of work experience doing technical work (he's an engineer) and yet so completely brainwashed by Rush, Hannity, and Fox on politics and economics that he truly believes it's the capitalist who is protecting his benefits and the socialist who wants to take them away.

Until we figure out how to break that cultural programming, which the Plutes spend billions reinforcing through their media, then the very innovations which saved labor in this country and created our middle class (limited working hours, bans on chold labor, OSHA regulations, overtime, retirement, social security, short and long term medical leave, maternity leave) will be resisted by workers when introduced and then, laughably, credited to the very capitalists who fought to deny them.

That's the power of the wealthy to to brainwash people.

Which explains why so many poor people support programs that give more corporate welfare and less personal welfare.

Someone needs to get onto the idea that we should do anything to support and grow the consumer numbers- as being a consumer lead economy, more consumers = better economy. Saving the overall system on healthcare = more consumers. Decreasing corporate welfare and more personal welfare = more consumers.

The scary thing is a 100% greedy move to not give anyone benefits somehow means socialism.

The other narrative that needs to change- Venezuela, Cuba, and the USSR's problems are far more rooted to people who were greedy, wanted power, and didn't want dissidents- which is the person in the white house right now. And where that happened, Socialism didn't work. Where it DOES work is where there's a strong democracy- like in Finland, Sweden, and Norway. Still have a consumer society, still have wealthy people, and has a base system that makes sure that everyone has a chance, especially a chance at consuming stuff.

 

[trixR4kids]

Hey, maybe they don't have Nazis as one of the two major political parties! Having said that, could you kindly explain to me what Senate #'s are you expecting for the Dems when Congress reconvenes in January 2021 after Bernie is elected President? Because if you're not getting to 60 Dem Senators how does Medicare for All happen? Do we get to 60 in 2022?

Nuke the filibuster and you don’t need 60. And yeah realistically there might not be enough senators to support it (we don’t know what the exact makeup of the senate is going to be if he won so this point is already ridiculous). At which point you use the bully pulpit and your grass roots support to shift the party further left and get rid of the dead weight in the party that doesn’t support it.

Of course nobody else in the party outside maaaaaybe Warren is going to do that which is the entire point here. And let’s be honest, the less ambitious proposals have just as much chance of getting challenged and tied up in the courts and being derided as socialist.

Also lol at America being the only country with nazis making up a significant part of the electorate. The only reason Trump won is because the opposition in this country did Jack **** for 40 years and allowed our planet to be cooked, advocated for forever wars, had no answer for working class people, and was complicit in allowing a financial crisis to happen.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

So what they need to be polling in the positive numbers?

Frankly, I would cut off everyone not polling at 5% or better, but I guess that's "unfair" to the warmongering conservadems not named Biden.

Tonight is the Harris/Biden/Castro show, plus I figure De Blasio is probably good for a swing or two at Biden. I'll have to turn off the sound when Gillibrand and her Tracy Flick voice starts rambling. We shall see if Uncle Joe can withstand another pounding.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Of course he did

You wanna label someone a DINO, he's your target.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Of course he did

You wanna label someone a DINO, he's your target.

Delaney used to be my Rep. He's always been a clueless rich doofus who doesn't understand Fiddler on the Roof.

I actually had to vote for this moron because the alternate was Roscoe G. Bartlett. Talk about a clash of the intellectual titans.

Anyway: he sucks and he is bad and he should curl up and die.