2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

unlucky confluence of events that all contributed to her demise.

This is the best way it has ever been put. I've been try to say it that way for a long time.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

The problem was not and is not Bernie Sanders. He did the right thing at the convention. The problem was his supporters where too many of them truly believed there was no difference between Clinton and Trump. Now, after several years of Trump as Prez, nobody should still believe that unless you've been eating acid with your Cheerios for breakfast every morning. That will hopefully deprive Chump of some 2M votes next election.

 

[burd]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

The problem was not and is not Bernie Sanders. He did the right thing at the convention. The problem was his supporters where too many of them truly believed there was no difference between Clinton and Trump. Now, after several years of Trump as Prez, nobody should still believe that unless you've been eating acid with your Cheerios for breakfast every morning. That will hopefully deprive Chump of some 2M votes next election.

I don't think many Bernie supporters thought there was no difference between trump and HRC. They were disappointed, demotivated, and, like so many, too willing to assume she would win easily.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

I don't think many Bernie supporters thought there was no difference between trump and HRC. They were disappointed, demotivated, and, like so many, too willing to assume she would win easily.

Whatever their motivations, I wouldn't expect them to turn around and vote for Trump a second time, nor would I expect as many of them to not vote or vote 3rd party this go around. That's a not insignificant amount of votes. But, they like all of the rest of us need to put the Russian backed propaganda aside and enthusiastically support whoever the Dem nominee is, as well as the down ballot races. No excuses for anyone this time.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

There have never been any excuses, either for forcing through a poisonous nominee or, afterwards, not enthusiastically playing along.

The former situation will not repeat so hopefully the latter will be less fraught.

Let's assume for example Biden is the nominee; he is probably the least charismatic of the field. The only faction within the Democratic party likely to raise a stink about it will be Identity First types who demand a woman and/or POC nominee. Yet Biden is among the strongest candidates among black voters (I don't know about Latinos TBH) and women are never a problem going to the polls, so I don't see either group being adversely affected.

Now let's assume Warren or even Bernie is the nominee. The Republican 2-minute hate will be at gale force and every conservative operative will be desperately trying to drive a wedge to split off or at least demoralize centrists. But working against that is the daily self-immolation of Dump and his criminal enterprise. So the center will probably hold, not to mention that a move to the Left will pull in energy from the forgotten people who have given up on the Democratic party ever doing anything real for the poor.

Dump's solution will likely be some kind of War Fever. Not to mention that Russia and perhaps China (though I doubt it, they have their own problems) will try to grab as much advantage as possible in what could be the waning days of American impotence and incompetence before restoration of a real government. He'll either have chances or he'll create one out of fantasies. So the final question will be are all the apes who unquestioningly respond to the trumpets now Dumpies anyway, or will that actually work?

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Well, “it divides people”, kinda implies that. As if people weren’t already divided and the Bernie vs establishment thing didn’t/doesn’t break down along class lines more or less. Either way he hadn’t lost yet so there was no reason to bow out.

No they were divided that was the problem. If Bernie stands up when it was obvious he was done (which was long before he did this) and says "We fought the good fight, we will continue to fight the good fight but she beat me fairly and now it is our job to help her defeat Trump" that would have gone a long ways towards closing the gap. Would she have won the General...I doubt it because she still would have screwed up in the 3 key states. It could be argued though that it may have made some difference in the Bernie supported states but probably not enough to win.

I am not blaming Bernie for her loss, but just because that may have been inevitable doesnt make his conduct all of a sudden ok. The Bernie Bros would have thrown a fit if Hillary was going to lose and refused to endorse...hell half the Democratic Party slapped her down when she tried to extend longer than needed when it was clear Obama won. That isnt how the game is played. When you have no road to victory you take your loss. I dont care who is running that is how the game is played.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

No they were divided that was the problem. If Bernie stands up when it was obvious he was done (which was long before he did this) and says "We fought the good fight, we will continue to fight the good fight but she beat me fairly and now it is our job to help her defeat Trump" that would have gone a long ways towards closing the gap. Would she have won the General...I doubt it because she still would have screwed up in the 3 key states. It could be argued though that it may have made some difference in the Bernie supported states but probably not enough to win.

Right but that's essentially what he ended up doing, even if it wasn't as early as you wanted it to happen. I don't really see how the timing of it made any difference.

As for the Bernie ppl that voted Trump, we've been over this a million times. There's always going to be some percentage of any voting populating that votes the opposite party when their candidate loses. Like twice as many HRC voters voted for McCain over the first black president in 2008 despite the fact that he wanted to drag us into a third forever war, his solution to the economic problems was basically just austerity, and his campaign wasn't exactly devoid of racism. I don't have the numbers for the other side but I wouldn't doubt there were some Kasich supporters that voted for HRC or ones that voted for Kerry over Bush when McCain was the runner up etc. It just never got talked about because the preferred candidate won despite some insignificant portion of the electorate having zero impact in a not close election.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

That people keep revisiting this is why I didn't want Bernie to run this time. Particularly since Warren gets us 80% of Bernie and for the 20% she misses she delivers another 20+% in additional value.

Warren/Harris and stay the course, folks. Let the dead bury the dead.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

That people keep revisiting this is why I didn't want Bernie to run this time. Particularly since Warren gets us 80% of Bernie and for the 20% she misses she delivers another 20+% in additional value.

Warren/Harris and stay the course, folks. Let the dead bury the dead.

Are you saying you want that ticket or those are you #1/#2? I dont want either as Veep they are too valuable in the Senate.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Are you saying you want that ticket or those are you #1/#2? I dont want either as Veep they are too valuable in the Senate.

I'm saying that as a ticket. I'm fine with replacing both in the Senate; those seats should be safe. Also, Kamala has bigger fish to fry and Liz aint gonna last forever, so I'd prefer to get young blood into those seats.

And in all honesty CA can give us a far, far more liberal Senator.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

I'm saying that as a ticket. I'm fine with replacing both in the Senate; those seats should be safe. Also, Kamala has bigger fish to fry and Liz aint gonna last forever, so I'd prefer to get young blood into those seats.

And in all honesty CA can give us a far, far more liberal Senator.

I just think Harris and Warren are wasted as Veeps. Veep is better for someone who needs on the job training like Pete. They wont be setting agenda anyways.

I am over the moon about either President though. Veep is a worthless position unless the Senate is 50/50. (or the President is a Cokehead Legacy )

I could be argued for other positions in cabinet just not Veep.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

I just think Harris and Warren are wasted as Veeps. Veep is better for someone who needs on the job training like Pete. They wont be setting agenda anyways.

I am over the moon about either President though. Veep is a worthless position unless the Senate is 50/50. (or the President is a Cokehead Legacy )

I could be argued for other positions in cabinet just not Veep.

OK, I'm fine with that. It can't be Pete if it's Warren, though (Rinso white). And it probably can't be Pete if it's Harris (Young and Younger).

So I give you: Warren/Booker or Castro; Harris/Inslee or... I dunno... Castro again? Maybe haul Amy's carcass out there to appease the Midwestern Mafia. (Why did Stupid Jenny Granholm have to be born in Poutinestan?)

Any takers?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

OK, I'm fine with that. It can't be Pete if it's Warren, though (Rinso white). And it probably can't be Pete if it's Harris (Young and Younger).

So I give you: Warren/Booker or Castro; Harris/Inslee or... I dunno... Castro again? Maybe haul Amy's carcass out there to appease the Midwestern Mafia. (Why did Stupid Jenny Granholm have to be born in Poutinestan?)

Any takers?

So that's why she never ran for President. Would have voted for her in a heartbeat.

 

[aparch]

(Why did Stupid Jenny Granholm have to be born in Poutinestan?)

She would have been great, but unfortunately her predecessor left her with a mess that took forever to turn around and her successor painted all her efforts as just wasted time/money. Oh, and the car companies took a collective sh*t during her reign causing people to turn against her.

I'd have voted for her in a heartbeat. (And proudly did for her reelection for Governor.)

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

OK, I'm fine with that. It can't be Pete if it's Warren, though (Rinso white). And it probably can't be Pete if it's Harris (Young and Younger).

So I give you: Warren/Booker or Castro; Harris/Inslee or... I dunno... Castro again? Maybe haul Amy's carcass out there to appease the Midwestern Mafia. (Why did Stupid Jenny Granholm have to be born in Poutinestan?)

Any takers?

Oh man Booker would scare the Bejesus out of the Old White Brigade. He is sort of the "Obama Translator" bit from Key and Peele in real life down to the crazy eyes.

Lest we forget Pete is a Gay Christian...so while he is white he is still quite the minority. Plus he is Midwest to offset the Coasties

Castro is a very intriguing choice and I really like him. Plus the optics with the Immigration Crisis would make it quite a fun story.

Inslee would be cool too because I dont see him moving to Veep as a net loss since he will be replaced by a Dem.

Amy no...stay in the Senate.

My thing is, the Senate needs every Dem it can so unless the position is helpful dont waste a spot on someone there. The House sure...not the Senate. that is why I am reticent about some of the choices ya know.

 

[burd]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

OK, I'm fine with that. It can't be Pete if it's Warren, though (Rinso white). And it probably can't be Pete if it's Harris (Young and Younger).

So I give you: Warren/Booker or Castro; Harris/Inslee or... I dunno... Castro again? Maybe haul Amy's carcass out there to appease the Midwestern Mafia. (Why did Stupid Jenny Granholm have to be born in Poutinestan?)

Any takers?

Harris/Inslee appeals. He was on NPR a week or so ago and impressed.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Lest we forget Pete is a Gay Christian...so while he is white he is still quite the minority.

He's not gonna satisfy The Root. We're all blue-eyed devils.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

He's not gonna satisfy The Root. We're all blue-eyed devils.

Even with Harris...****. Maybe the Twitter losers are right and Harris really isnt Black

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Even with Harris...****. Maybe the Twitter losers are right and Harris really isnt Black

I just meant he doesn't count as a victim to them. They've got a patent pending. You don't know their pain.

The Root is where you go to hear upper middle class black college students lecture about privilege to poor white coal miners. Our universities have done them a disservice by taking their adolescent self-absorption, common to all of us, and magnifying it by merging it with systemic racism. They have no idea that what they feel is not the same as real oppression because how would they? The adults around them aren't doing their jobs.

Social life is supposed to beat that out of you, not reinforce it. The other group who society fails in this way is conservatives, who really do believe, as adults, that taxation is theft and the interference with property is too high a price to pay for mitigating actual human pain.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Warren/Harris works. Puts Harris in a position to succeed Warren if she's the VP. Warren as VP does no good. She's already in her 70's and would be far more effective in the Senate.

VP doesn't have to be one of the 100 people running although I like the Inslee idea as it would signal a real commitment to addressing climate change. I'm just not sold on Buttigieg though. He's a good speaker but I still don't think being mayor of a city of 100K people should put you that close to the Presidency especially if its a geezer like Biden or Sanders who could keel over at any minute!