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2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Individual voters have more responsibility than the people who influence large swaths and have failed miserably for decades to the point where people tuned out of politics.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Individual voters have more responsibility than the people who influence large swaths and have failed miserably for decades to the point where people tuned out of politics.

Yes.

Do you honestly think anything changes if the Progressives and the Bernie Bros stay home? Lets say Biden wins 4 years and you are right and in 4 years the Left stays home. Do you think that will bring about any real change in the party? It wont, because the ones that make the agenda are the ones who lead the Party and you dont get to lead the Party if your constituency stays home every time they dont get what they want. The Freedumb Caucasus tried this and it never went the way they thought it would. You change from the inside or you leave outright and try for a third party but you dont just walk away in a National Vote. (I can see the argument for lower elections but not President)

Break it down logically...what do you (the Far Left Wing of the Party) gain if the GOP wins? Not theoretical rhetoric what do you actually gain? How will your position be better if your wing basically screwed over everyone to prove a point?

The power of the elected comes from the will of the voters. If the Far Left wants more strength in the Party they need their voters to show up and be counted on for support. If they are thought of as flakes they will never be taken seriously. If they vote though, and get their members in office in higher numbers THEN the method works for them. (They can choose to ignore leadership as a show of strength) If the Progressives have a show of strength even despite not liking Biden at all, then when it comes time for Congress to work you are giving AOC and her fellow Far Lefters way more ammo to work with. But you cant be in the game if you dont show up.

Trust me I get what you are saying (I said it long before you did around here) but in the real world that isnt how it works.
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

If we have a Biden presidency nothing is going to fundamentally change, he literally said that himself.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

We've seen the rise of fascism in a number of European countries recently such as Italy, Poland, Greece, and throughout Asia as well.

Lets dive into this one. In Italy, I'm assuming you're talking about Burlesconi? If so, are you claiming that he succeeded Clintonesque, neo-liberal, 3rd way govt?

These blanket statements of fact out of you are a little tough to follow, and you have a history of assuming facts not in evidence (your claim that Bernie received a majority of his donations from non-whites from a week or so ago, for example).

If we have a Biden presidency nothing is going to fundamentally change, he literally said that himself.

From Trump? Do you actually believe that?
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Lets dive into this one. In Italy, I'm assuming you're talking about Burlesconi? If so, are you claiming that he succeeded Clintonesque, neo-liberal, 3rd way govt?
Neoliberalism refers to market based solutions to market based problems and generally that means austerity. As for Italy La Lega has gained more parliamentary power recently and I believe are the largest party currently in power.

These blanket statements of fact out of you are a little tough to follow, and you have a history of assuming facts not in evidence (your claim that Bernie received a majority of his donations from non-whites from a week or so ago, for example).
I mispoke about donations, the poll from March showed that most of his supporters we non-white.

From Trump? Do you actually believe that?
He literally said it himself what more do you want? This isn't a tough one exactly...
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Neoliberalism refers to market based solutions to market based problems and generally that means austerity. As for Italy La Lega has gained more parliamentary power recently and I believe are the largest party currently in power.

Then how does that jive with Obama succeeding Bush? Wouldn't Bush be the neo-liberal and then people voted in a more traditional liberal vision? Obama's govt was an expansion of govt, from the stimulus to tax hikes on the wealthy to the ACA? By your rules we should have elected a fascist to succeed W, or is there some sort of delayed reaction baked into there?
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-cards="hidden" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Rep. John Lewis on Joe Biden: "I don't think the remarks are offensive." <a href="https://t.co/TtxSgWFIER">https://t.co/TtxSgWFIER</a> <a href="https://t.co/NHqMKzpSPH">pic.twitter.com/NHqMKzpSPH</a></p>— The Hill (@thehill) <a href="https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1142130384362192897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 21, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-cards="hidden" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Rep. John Lewis on Joe Biden: "I don't think the remarks are offensive." <a href="https://t.co/TtxSgWFIER">https://t.co/TtxSgWFIER</a> <a href="https://t.co/NHqMKzpSPH">pic.twitter.com/NHqMKzpSPH</a></p>— The Hill (@thehill) <a href="https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1142130384362192897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 21, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Its a stupid attack on Biden that's in danger of backfiring. First it reeks of craven opportunism that would make Kristen Gillenbrand blush. :D But more important its absurd to think Obama picked a bigot to serve as his VP? :confused:

For whatever reason the press hates two Dems running for Prez - Biden and Sanders. Don't know if they have it in for old white guys, but I suspect in Bernie's case its because he's not a schmoozer and most likely serves Long Trail at his Beltway cocktail parties if he holds them at all. But expect to see more ticky tack stories like "Sanders took a private plane to an event" or other such nonsense.

In Biden's case they like to embellish or just make things up. For example back when he was VP the press reported that he'd inadvertently given away the location of the secret bunker he'd go to in case of an attack. He'd done nothing of the sort, but it took about a week and a story on page 30 in small print before the media corrected itself.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

I would assume Bernie is not a kissass and be surly with them if they get on his nerves.
 
Its a stupid attack on Biden that's in danger of backfiring. First it reeks of craven opportunism that would make Kristen Gillenbrand blush. :D But more important its absurd to think Obama picked a bigot to serve as his VP? :confused:

For whatever reason the press hates two Dems running for Prez - Biden and Sanders. Don't know if they have it in for old white guys, but I suspect in Bernie's case its because he's not a schmoozer and most likely serves Long Trail at his Beltway cocktail parties if he holds them at all. But expect to see more ticky tack stories like "Sanders took a private plane to an event" or other such nonsense.

In Biden's case they like to embellish or just make things up. For example back when he was VP the press reported that he'd inadvertently given away the location of the secret bunker he'd go to in case of an attack. He'd done nothing of the sort, but it took about a week and a story on page 30 in small print before the media corrected itself.

Thanks for reminding me that Long Trail doesn't distribute west of the Appalachians. Wonder when I'll get to have it again...
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">thread stretches to 1st big interview in 1970: “I have some friends on the far left&they can justify to me the murder of a white deaf mute for a nickel by five colored guys...But they can’t justify some AL farmers tar and feathering an old colored woman” <a href="https://t.co/3y4FVLwmys">https://t.co/3y4FVLwmys</a></p>— Edward-Isaac Dovere (@IsaacDovere) <a href="https://twitter.com/IsaacDovere/status/1142101484814983168?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 21, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

I really hate digging up stuff from FIFTY years ago. The only thing that bothers me is that he has stuff to dig up from FIFTY YEARS ago.

Obama was opposed to gay marriage when he took office. Opinions change as society changes.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Ok? Even if you don't care about his racism this is a huge liability in a general election vs Trump if he were to win the primary. There's no shortage of "both sides" material for him to exploit and the more this stuff keeps surfacing the less I think Biden is somehow the "most electable".
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Biden is definitely not the most electable candidate. He just currently has the most name recognition, and the most goodwill from being part of a prior administration. He is the moderate wing of the Democratic Party crying out for another Obama.

Like most early frontrunners, he's going to flame out in the debates. Remember when Howard Dean was a lock in 2004 until a lackluster showing in Iowa, after which he went all Henry Rollins on naming 10 US states? Remember when Fig Newton had a strong debate (by Republican standards) in 2012 and surged to the top of the polls, then fizzled out just as quickly about 3 weeks later? Heck, Biden himself looked pretty good in 1988 until the plagiarism and phantom Master's degree popped up.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Remember when Howard Dean was a lock in 2004 until a lackluster showing in Iowa, after which he went all Henry Rollins on naming 10 US states?

How dare he show excitement!

Remember when Fig Newton had a strong debate (by Republican standards) in 2012 and surged to the top of the polls, then fizzled out just as quickly about 3 weeks later?

I honestly don't know who this is supposed to be.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Biden is definitely not the most electable candidate. He just currently has the most name recognition, and the most goodwill from being part of a prior administration. He is the moderate wing of the Democratic Party crying out for another Obama.

Any time the Democrats have won the general POTUS election as the challenging party since 1980, their candidate was not amongst the top two or three front runners during the primaries. Bill Clinton came from almost nowhere, same with Obama. They worked smart, did well in the various debates, public events, and spoke well during news interviews. None of those things speak of Biden to me.

While we might have moved beyond the era of where candidate can start out as an also-ran to later move up the ranks, someone from the lower end of the top ranks could very well be on the general election ballot come November next year. And I can only hope that person wins.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Bill Maher just stated he thinks Oprah is the only sure bet to beat trump
 
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