2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

We need someone who proposes real solutions to those problems. Bernie definitely does, Warren has some decent ideas, the rest not so much.

And this and 50 cents will get you a newspaper and not much else if you can't be bothered to elect like minded people to Congress. That takes sustained effort over multiple elections. As I said before, go out and win some of these key senate races next year for starters. If progressive candidates win in places like AZ, GA, NC for example, a hypothetical President Biden isn't going to ignore the message that sends.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Yeah I get that, I think certain candidates will fare better in getting people to vote in down ballot races than others. Some racist idiot with zero good ideas and none of the grass roots support of the other candidates probably won't accomplish that.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

And this and 50 cents will get you a newspaper and not much else if you can't be bothered to elect like minded people to Congress. That takes sustained effort over multiple elections. As I said before, go out and win some of these key senate races next year for starters. If progressive candidates win in places like AZ, GA, NC for example, a hypothetical President Biden isn't going to ignore the message that sends.

You don't see the disconnect? The Dems had control and passed Obamacare and had total control after the GOP overstepped. Many, many things in Obamacare are Gospel now. Kids till 26. Pre-existing conditions. What they got for passing it was a complete lack of power and a lot of lost elections.

So, if they don't find a way to do both we are lost. The GOP is able to steal money (tax cuts) and not lose elections at the same time.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

You don't see the disconnect?

Voters: *****ed that real wages have stagnated for 40 years, losing their house because of illegal foreclosure, medical bankruptcies, can't afford $400 emergency*
Joe Biden: Nothing will fundamentally change under me including your standard of living
Rover/Handy: Why didn't the voters vote!?!?!?

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Yeah I get that, I think certain candidates will fare better in getting people to vote in down ballot races than others. Some racist idiot with zero good ideas and none of the grass roots support of the other candidates probably won't accomplish that.

Those have to be separate considerations or you're doomed to fail. The changes you guys want to make won't occur in one election. Win lose or draw Biden has at most 8 years in office. You elect a Senator and they'll only be starting their 2nd term by the time he's done. It astounds me that people with such grand dreams would stay home and not vote for a down ballot progressive because they don't like the top of the ticket. Knuckledraggers didn't take elections off after getting clobbered in 92, 96, 2008, or 2012. Their focus on turning the USA into a white supremacist nation funded by payoffs from Vlady Putin never wavered. Dems need to put out the same sustained effort.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

I don't think anyone is arguing that you don't need to do both for long term success.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Yeah but you are basically saying if Biden gets elected the Left will ignore that.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Voters: *****ed that real wages have stagnated for 40 years, losing their house because of illegal foreclosure, medical bankruptcies, can't afford $400 emergency*
Joe Biden: Nothing will fundamentally change under me including your standard of living
Rover/Handy: Why didn't the voters vote!?!?!?

I think the problem now is were too far gone. The GOP played the long game and they won. I'm not sure we have the patience to fight the long game because it's probably too late for a lot of things. Especially the environment.

That's why I'm struggling with the answer here. I know Joe Biden is better than the GOP. But, that's not the point anymore. We all stood up and elected Obama and the GOP effectively neutered him. They turned a positive (Obamacare) into a negative and swept the country back up again after the War and ownership society overrreach. And what did we get for it? A ton of lost elections, Donald Trump, and another 1.5 trillion stolen. We never should have fired Howard Dean. He wanted to fight everywhere.

If you want to blame someone we can blame the Democratic Party. The chairs they have had since Howard Dean have been horrible. Still not convinced on Perez. Not in the slightest.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

That's historically what's happened when you essentially tell them to F off and die, which is essentially what Joe's message to young people is.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

That's historically what's happened when you essentially tell them to F off and die, which is essentially what Joe's message to young people is.

Hopefully the GOP's swath of "easy" votes is really getting less and less. I have my doubts. But, I think that's the only hope we have.

 

[Handyman]

That's historically what's happened when you essentially tell them to F off and die, which is essentially what Joe's message to young people is.

Aw poor babies. They can still kiss off then.

If they don't see they are better off with Biden than Trump they deserve to be told to f off and die.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Aw poor babies. They can still kiss off then.

If they don't see they are better off with Biden than Trump they deserve to be told to f off and die.

Yeah...when people are saying that even Lizzy Warren isn't liberal enough, its time to pack up and back away slowly towards the nearest open door.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

It doesn't matter what they think, what matters is what actually happens. If your party constantly ignores the will of the people, especially if it's being hostile towards its ever growing number of younger members, then it's going to become a relic.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

It doesn't matter what they think, what matters is what actually happens. If your party constantly ignores the will of the people, especially if it's being hostile towards its ever growing number of younger members, then it's going to become a relic.

That would be dependent upon Sanders type progressives being the majority of the party. We'll find out if that's true or not as the primary play out...unless evil genius Debbie Wasserman Schultz gets involved again!!!

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Aw poor babies. They can still kiss off then.

"It's the Bernie Bros' fault!" he yelled as he was taken away to the death camp.

That would be dependent upon Sanders type progressives being the majority of the party.

They don't need to be for history to repeat itself. But you already know that and are arguing in circles per usual.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

That would be dependent upon Sanders type progressives being the majority of the party. We'll find out if that's true or not as the primary play out...unless evil genius Debbie Wasserman Schultz gets involved again!!!

Doesn't matter cause all the centrist Democrats play the "I wish Mitch McConnell would work with us" game. How's that going? There's a pile of House bills passed right now that will NEVER see the light of day.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Doesn't matter cause all the centrist Democrats play the "I wish Mitch McConnell would work with us" game. How's that going? There's a pile of House bills passed right now that will NEVER see the light of day.

*Largest midterm turnout since forever and a historic upset (given the gerrymandering) which was mostly predicated on impeaching Trump*
"IIIIIIII think impeachment would be hard" - Nancy

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

*Largest midterm turnout since forever and a historic upset (given the gerrymandering) which was mostly predicated on impeaching Trump*
"IIIIIIII think impeachment would be hard" - Nancy

She may be right. Look what happened to them after they passed Obamacare.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

She may be right. Look what happened to them after they passed Obamacare.

As we've discussed many times there's a bit more to it than that.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

It doesn't matter what they think, what matters is what actually happens. If your party constantly ignores the will of the people, especially if it's being hostile towards its ever growing number of younger members, then it's going to become a relic.

Yeah and if what actually happens is they cry like the spoiled babies they are and dont vote they are the cause of their own destruction. You can deny it all you want to but it is the truth. And that is what you are suggesting will happen which puts the onus on them.

Then again if they were "the will of the people" their numbers would dwarf the "centrists" they so hate and they would win. Now this is where you bring up conspiracy theories and money and such but no one in the Dem Party is denying the "Left: True Voice of the People" from going to the polls and voting. So if you are right, and these impassioned Progressives are the true representatives of the people they should be able to get out the vote and make things right. Problem is they never quite do that...

Look I understand being frustrated, hell I even agree with the vast majority of what they say and stand for, but these people cut off their nose to spite their face. They may have the right ideas and the right motivations but their political acumen and strategy is severely lacking. In a normal scenario I would be all for them acting petulant out of principle but these arent normal times and until things get back to normal the Dems need to start acting like Republicans. This is a binary system, you are either part of the solution or part of the problem. If you stay home because you dont like who wins the Dem Primary you are as pathetic and wrong-headed as a Trumper. End of flippin story.