2017 Women's World Championships

[Ahockeydad]

Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

I am still unclear as to where the Dues we pay to USA hockey go. Does it go into one big pool of money that the men and women take from or does it go only towards women's USA Hockey?

The idea that Junior girls would go with all the pressure against them is laughable. Too many high school and college coaches would never support those individual girls again. I only see some D3 senior girls maybe not caring and are at an age where they can not be blackballed later.

What matters most to USA hockey that will make this happen? It Will have nothing to do with past Olympians. I think it comes down to jobs threatened and Money.

But what if USA hockey is telling the truth? Are they responsible for keeping these players paid? Do we worry about Bobsleders or Men's Indoor Volleyball the same way? They all have to train and I wonder how they are supported besides coming together for a few tournaments a year and getting food in Colorado Springs for 6 months every 4 years. Many of the athletes in Colorado Springs do have other jobs. I am sure they are all watching this closely also. If the Women's Hockey team gets more pay they will all want more pay. I think that is the real pressure USA hockey is under.

 

[Hockeyhub]

Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

If women's sports were better attended, it would go a long way toward helping solve this problem. Women make up about 50% of the population. I see a lot of women at men's sporting events, and then see seats 50% to 75% empty at women's events. If women as a whole would say to their husbands/boyfriends, "No, I won't go to the men's game tonight, but I would love to go to the women's game on Saturday with you", it may help solve part of this problem in the long term. Demand would go a long way to helping this cause. In the short-term, I still think USAH should pony up and help these women defray their costs and additionally provide more help to the younger girls in their development like they do with the boys. USAH suggests they already do this but I'm not buying it.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

The women's basketball team draws 5,000 per game. The men draw 15,000 per game. Title IX does not care. Equal support by the institution's resources is required.

problem is, USA Hockey isn't a college/university, Title IX doesn't apply

they are kinda shooting themselves in the foot, the only way they will ever become real professionals making real money is by winning, not whining. They hurt their own cause by choking in 2014. Staying home doesn't help, although they probably got more publicity by saying they wouldn't play than if they actually did play and win gold, nobody cares about the Worlds except hard core hockey fans.

 

[bluffrinkrat]

Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

Seems like today everybody's protesting about something. I don't know enough about this issue to have an opinion. Hope they play though and it reminded me of a movie.

Mildred: Hey Johnny, what are you rebelling against?
Johnny: Whadda got?

"The Wild One" 1953

 

[pokechecker]

Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

If women's sports were better attended, it would go a long way toward helping solve this problem. Women make up about 50% of the population. I see a lot of women at men's sporting events, and then see seats 50% to 75% empty at women's events. If women as a whole would say to their husbands/boyfriends, "No, I won't go to the men's game tonight, but I would love to go to the women's game on Saturday with you", it may help solve part of this problem in the long term. Demand would go a long way to helping this cause. In the short-term, I still think USAH should pony up and help these women defray their costs and additionally provide more help to the younger girls in their development like they do with the boys. USAH suggests they already do this but I'm not buying it.

this is true
but your suggestion not so much, men & women attend the women's college game in equal numbers
most of those women you see at a men's game don't attend women's games, they are no more interested than their husband is, maybe even less so

 

[Hockeyhub]

Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

I guess my point is...to all the women that say "I stand behind you one hundred percent", and then don't bother to attend a women's game, don't squabble about women getting the shaft when you don't even support them at their events. In this context, women are their own worst enemy. If you truly believe in equality, then attend their events as if you enjoy their events equally.

 

[shelfit]

Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

I guess my point is...to all the women that say "I stand behind you one hundred percent", and then don't bother to attend a women's game, don't squabble about women getting the shaft when you don't even support them at their events. In this context, women are their own worst enemy. If you truly believe in equality, then attend their events as if you enjoy their events equally.

Wow, what a simpleton's view this is. Enough said.

 

[Hockeyhub]

Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

Actually, it's a lot more insightful than your weak response.

 

[BoSox3066]

Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

USA Hockeys posted some numbers. They seem to be including training food and equipment in their dolar amounts, which claim the ladies are asking in excess of 200k a year i an Olympic yr and 140 in an off yr.

Seems like fuzzy math on USAH part but its definitely insightful. Phone wont let me post link but its first thing on usahockey.com

 

[AAA Dad]

Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

Couldn't disagree more. If the point is that we need to grow girl's/women's hockey, and that MI is a great place to start given it's history, then hosting the World's there makes more not less sense. There was a good crowd at the US/Canada game a few months back. Conversely, it's tough to promote and grow the game if every big event is hosted in MN or MA.

I'm glad the women appear to be holding together. USA Hockey's response is disappointing, but not surprising. Great leadership by Dugan, Knight, and the Lams.

Bottom line is Michigan and Michigan State should be embarrassed for not offering D1 Women's Hockey programs! Michigan is one of the Nations Hockey hotbeds! MN 5 D1 programs MI 0 Disgraceful

 

[clarksoncluck]

Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

Spoke with a few (2) players from the NWHL and they said that they will not go if asked. These 2 players would definitely be some of the ones considered. They both felt that it wouldn't be earned and that they would be shunned. So it will be very much a non starter to look at the top end 2nd tier NWHL girls.

So, do you think USA Hockey will look to the ones not in consideration at the NCAA level? If the U18's and others who are under future consideration all say no, where does USAH go to?

I know there are a handful or 2 of US players in the CWHL not including the Blades. Will they go to that pool? I'm sure Chu will side with the US National girls, will the rest?

Separate question. If this doesn't get resolved will the Lams look to HC since they have dual? Doubt it, but if they get rejected from USAH, then what for them. Would HC even consider them?

Based on what is on the USAH website, it looks like USAH is trying to get some public opinion on their side. Not sure if their #'s are correct for the players demands, but it looks defensive for the organization and I'm sure the players will come out with a response.

Looks like the sides are digging in though. Bur nothing has been in the news for the last 24 hours really, so maybe things are getting worked out.

Haven't yet cancelled my trip to Plymouth. Hoping not to have to.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

Separate question. If this doesn't get resolved will the Lams look to HC since they have dual? Doubt it, but if they get rejected from USAH, then what for them. Would HC even consider them?

Haven't yet cancelled my trip to Plymouth. Hoping not to have to.

My understanding of the international rules is once you have played for a national team you can't be on the roster of a different nations team. This came up with a dually that had already played & then got cut.

We already have the tickets paid for so unless we get a refund on them we will go just not watch any game USA is playing in. I wonder if we would have a legal cause to file a claim against USAH if they send the 3rd stringers.

 

[ARM]

Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

Separate question. If this doesn't get resolved will the Lams look to HC since they have dual?

I don't think that is allowed. Once a player competes internationally for one team, they aren't allowed to become a free agent and go elsewhere, even if they have dual citizenship, ancestral ties, or whatever allows people to go compete for a different country. That's why someone like goalie Alex Gulstene has to think carefully before deciding which country to represent.

 

[Eeyore]

Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

Bottom line is Michigan and Michigan State should be embarrassed for not offering D1 Women's Hockey programs! Michigan is one of the Nations Hockey hotbeds! MN 5 D1 programs MI 0 Disgraceful

FWIW, a few years ago, Michigan was looking to add sports. They made the decision to go with lacrosse, both men's and women's, rather than women's ice hockey. They found that adding those two teams was significantly less expensive than women's hockey alone. And Michigan is one of two schools (Ohio State is the other) that has a team in all 14 sports that are officially sponsored by the conference. Minnesota has no women's lacrosse or field hockey; Wisconsin has no lacrosse, field hockey or gymnastics.

So, I have a hard time seeing it as a disgrace that they don't have a women's ice hockey team. They made the choice to go in a different direction and actually offer more scholarship opportunities to female athletes than Minnesota or Wisconsin. They just made the decision that ice hockey wasn't where they were going to put their resources. Sure, my personal preference would have been women's ice hockey, but I try not to confuse my personal preferences with moral imperatives when they aren't.

 

[ARM]

Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

They just made the decision that ice hockey wasn't where they were going to put their resources.

Which is fine (as long as they don't consider Michigan to be a hockey state or try to steal the name "Hockey Town" from a city that is truly devoted to hockey like Warroad is).

 

[D2D]

Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

Minnesota has no women's lacrosse or field hockey; Wisconsin has no lacrosse, field hockey or gymnastics.

Wisconsin also does not have baseball.

 

[Eeyore]

Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

Which is fine (as long as they don't consider Michigan to be a hockey state or try to steal the name "Hockey Town" from a city that is truly devoted to hockey like Warroad is).

I have no idea what this comment has to do with the people at the University of Michigan who made the decision that offering more athletic scholarships for less money was the way to go.

 

[Eeyore]

Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

Wisconsin also does not have baseball.

I was looking specifically at women's teams. On the men's side, Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State are the only schools that have a team in all 14 conference sports. In addition to baseball, Wisconsin has no men's gymnastics or lacrosse; Minnesota has no men's lacrosse or soccer.

 

[KTDC]

Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

I have no idea what this comment has to do with the people at the University of Michigan who made the decision that offering more athletic scholarships for less money was the way to go.

I think he was making reference to the fact that Michigan used to be one of the big hockey states of the country. And universities in Michigan choosing to emphasize other sports at the expense of hockey is one of the reasons that is less and less the case.

Regardless of how admirable their decision to offer more scholarships for less money. Maybe if us Minnesotans can catch up to Michigan morally we can drop women's hockey and add lacrosse, too!

 

[ironic_chef]

Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

There is a lot of information being reported on this that isn't reflected in the thread, so I thought I'd dust off the ol' account and provide some links.

If you're on Twitter, some solid accounts are @MsJenNeale_PD, @hannah_bevis1, @k_cimini, and @itsmeglinehan, among many.

A very good timeline on the negotiations and an excellent primer on the issues can be found here, where it specifies dates of three in-person visits with USAH to discuss the players' concerns.

USA Hockey is hockey's national governing body under the Ted Stevens Olympic and Amateur Sports Act that is required by law to support both male and female programs equitably. Currently spending $3.5 million per year to subsidize boys who may never find a place on the national team, compared to $0 annually (except Olympic years) to support women who are actively playing on the national team and winning medals doesn't seem equitable. Girls pay the same dues as boys, do they not?

I will always root for Canada when they play the USA, but I am in awe of the strength of these women for standing up to USAH, and for empowering those who come after them.

As for the Lams, I'm sure they have ZERO interest in playing for Canada - even if it were a possibility which it is not.